DBX 286a gives me pesky feedbacks whistles, any remedy?
tidus
Posts: 13
Hello, I just bought a DBX 286A mainly for vocal live work, I need to use it for singing live in a green day tribute band or general rock so an heavy compression is required, I had it a try during 2 rehearsal sessions, but hell for a decent volume and some bright top it really gives off bothersome larsen feedbacks, is there a way to prevent it from whistling so much? I use a shure sm58 with an XLR cable into the mic input of the 286A and go out with a normal jack cable plugged into the line in of the mixer (basic connection).
Phantom is obviously off since I'm using a dynamic mic, the highpass is engaged cause according to the manual it should suppress outside noises, since my voice is naturally very bassy the HF booster of the enhancer would be great but that also gets things worse since high freqs get it to whistle even more.
in a nutshell I'd like to have a warm clear powerful voice with a bright top and a nice rock compression, is there a way to obtain this result without feedbacks? any suggested setting or general suggestions?
Phantom is obviously off since I'm using a dynamic mic, the highpass is engaged cause according to the manual it should suppress outside noises, since my voice is naturally very bassy the HF booster of the enhancer would be great but that also gets things worse since high freqs get it to whistle even more.
in a nutshell I'd like to have a warm clear powerful voice with a bright top and a nice rock compression, is there a way to obtain this result without feedbacks? any suggested setting or general suggestions?
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Comments
Tell us if the system is properly tuned and set up...has a proper gain structure been done? Your problems scream of a system that is non linear and improperly set up...
We typically deal with questions related to the Driverack platform...it has been our experience that most feedback and uncontrolled system problems are related to poor system setup....
On my system @ 107 db @ FOH 10 meters away... I can stand in front of the mains with a wireless and "howl at the moon" and there will be no feedback...the channel strip takes care of the rest. Yes I can insert a comp to any given channel, but many professional singers don't usually need or want them...
Less is more...
Gadget
well I don't really know those systems I tried with it cause that's what I found in 2 different rehearsal rooms, thus they are not mine, maybe they are cheap and the small rooms didn't help either, anyway those mixers have a gain, EQ, effects and a master volume for each channel, there doesn't seem to be anything to it, it's a very basic mixer.
Should I use the enhancer of the 286a? many people say it's useless, but a treble boost in my voice would be well accepted (if it doesn't whistles that is).
I like the comp on the voice, and many rock voices use it, but the gain knob would give me a feedback too if kept highish, anyway I'm gonna mess with it tonight again trying to keep the input and output volumes low, the comp half way up, and adjust the master volume from the mixer.
Well if you have a better setup to suggest for a rock voice "feedback free" just fire away please, the PA system in rehearsal rooms are very small and basic, nothing to set up really.
Look, if it's that important to you to get your voice out there, and compression is the only way to do that ( :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :? ) the system needs to be well tuned...If you move around a lot a driverack (DRPA+) would allow you to quickly tune the system to help limit the potential for feedback .. and give your voice a leg up...you would need a measurement mic to complete the package...
adding just the compressor to your vocal channel isn't going to get you what you want if the system is crappy... all the channel strip eq in the world isn't going to change that either...it's the speakers...As I said many time I can stand directly in front of my system running (2 feet from the speaker) 120+ db and sing and scream and hang from the ceiling by my knee's if I want ...right in front of the speakers and NEVER hear a hint of feedback...I have actually gotten my monitors to almost 122db and I can aim the mic into the horn of the monitor @ 1 foot and never hear a peep...
That is the way to get what you want... the compressor can smooth out a performance, but can't "fix" the speakers problems...sorry...
Gadget
1. 28-31 band GEQ's
2. Couple processor slots for :
a. Automatic feedback suppressor
b. compressor (yes the good dbx compressor)
c. Subharmonic synth
(and a bunch more for the DR260 and up... but this discussion is about the DRPA+ and DRPX)
3. Crossovers/filters up to 2x6
4. Parametric EQ's
5. Limiters
6. Alignment delay
and automatic system equalization.... for system setup
All designed to help setup and tune the system. Here is a link to the dbx site:
http://www.dbxpro.com/products.php
the top products on that page are all driveracks...
and they do make a HUGE difference in any system!
gadget
sounds like I bought a piece of garbage
anyway isn't this a general DBX products forum?
sounds like I bought a piece of garbage
anyway isn't this a general DBX products forum?[/quote]
It had become such, in a way, but if you note the heading topics, there all Driverack related. We (Gadget and Dennis, anyway) try to help where we can.
The 286 has it's place, but a Driverack is the way to go for whole system performance.
DRA
It had become such, in a way, but if you note the heading topics, there all Driverack related. We (Gadget and Dennis, anyway) try to help where we can.
The 286 has it's place, but a Driverack is the way to go for whole system performance.
DRA[/quote]
that's why I opened a thread in the general room, was unsure though,
all I needed was a pre and a comp mainly, to use live for my vocal work, don't really need anything too complex, i like to keep things simple also because I sing vintage garage rock and punk rock 77, so I'm rather meat and potatoes with the sound
None the less...compressors that can hear the mains/monitors are going to feed back unless the system is well tuned...
Sorry...
Gadget
sounds like I bought a piece of garbage
No, you didn't buy a piece of garbage. The systems you have been rehearsing on sound like they are fairly low quality and their uneven response causes your 286A to misbehave. Gadget suggested using a DBX loudspeaker processor to correct the basic problems of the sound systems so you can use the 286A to fuller potential. This isn't about complicating things...it's about baking the cake first then putting on the frosting.
Dennis
Think of it this way. You buy a Mustang capable of going pretty fast and you bought it to go fast. You then buy some really nice seat covers, but now find out that to go fast you need speed rated tires. The covers look nice but don't help the car go faster.
DRA
You are a bit unclear as to your signal path. When you say you're taking the 286A into a "Line In" on the mixer, What mixer? A channel line input?
The 286A is a good pre/comp. If you are getting feedback, there is something else wrong in your signal path. It sounds like you are overdriving the mixer inputs. Try this: set the 286A so your mic is giving you optimum input signal - leave all controls (comp, de-esser, high & low enhancement) - OFF. Make sure that your mixer input is set for "Line" and not "Mic". Set your mixer input at nominal, and all EQ at 0. Bring your channel level up to where it shows a nominal signal on the meter. Now slowly bring the comp on the 286A up until you can hear it working. Push it past that point until it sounds funky. You want to be somewhere between those two points. Use the mixer EQ to fine-tune the sound. If you're not happy with that, use the high and low enhancement on the 286A.
As it has been mentioned by Gadget, unless your system is well tuned and set up, compression is only going to exacerbate your feedback problems. Mic technique will go a lot further. Compression in live sound is risky.
Regards,
Bob
all rock singers use compression live, of course they have top notch comps such as the distressor but they do use compression, what I wanted to do is the same thing but with an affordable unit
Your still around I see.. that reply was sent about 4 months ago.. I looked back on this post and I can tell you that this WAS a driverack only forum... I guess we did so good dbx decided to make this the official websites (dbx) whole product forum.. they never really even told us they had done it. We are... just a bunch of users..like you, that are trying to help others.
We have already told you that the systems tuning can have a great deal to do with feedback. The cheaper the speaker the more peaks it will have in it's response and the more likely they will be to also be very peaky and uneven (usually overly bright) the response will be. These peaks will help regenerative feedback start.. even without the help of a compressors inherent nature to LOOK for signals when the sound drops below a set threshold.
First of all the 286a was a project studio series "all in wonder" device made to provide a product at a price point. I have one and for live use I don't care for it...In the studio I have some uses for it, but it isn't a 166xl by any means...So, I guess you have a product that isn't what you are looking for.
Sorry..
Gadget
gadget that fact that this thread dates back to 4 months ago doesn't mean that I can't come back for a clarification, this is now the official DBX forum, it's not specific for driveracks now, so I have the right to open up threads regarding any DBX unit, if you're not able to help cause your major is driveracks please abstain from replying and let me talk to the ones who are willing to help without making a fuss
and I already told you that the speakers are not mine, I don't have my personal speakers, I just happen to use what I find both in rehearsal rooms or on stage, so my goal was to learn with your help how to optimise the 286a settings for a rock vocal, but if you dismiss my questions by telling me to buy a different unit YOU're not gonna be of any help, sorry but I hope you understand this cause it's not pleasant but it's just impertinent
this is your opinion, the features of the 286a say it's a low cost pre/comp suitable both for studio and lives, many live services use it, and I happened to use it twice with great results, the only difference was that the setting was done by a technician, so I assume the problem is me not the unit, sorry pal
This is not a large congregation of DBX product users. Take your question to PSW or Acapella (sp) for a larger source of responders willing to tell you basically the same thing.
DRA
Next time I'll turn to the link you gave me