Carvin??

stix518

Hello!
I am now the proud owner of a DRPA and have been diligently reading (and reading... and reading ) the forums and the manual and realize that I have to use custom settings for my speakers and amps. Any assistance on the crossover settings would be greatly appreciated. Here's what I have:

Sub Amp: Crown XLS602D Bridged @ 1680 watts into 4 ohms
(currently summed off a 223XL set at approx: 110)

Subs: 2 Carvin TR-1801's Daisy-Chained
Frequency Response: 37 Hz to 2 kHz ±3 dB
Useable Low Frequency: 30 Hz (-10 dB)
Power Handling: 800w Continuous Power
Recommended Amp: 100 to 1200 watts
Sensitivity: 96 dB SPL, 1 Watt @ 1 meter
Coverage Angles: 90° Horizontal, 45° Vertical
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm
Inputs/Outputs: Two 1/4", two Speakonâ„¢
Woofer Enclosure Type: Vented Box

Main Amp: QSC GX5 (500W/Side @ 8 Ohms)
(Stereo off Mid L & R on the 223XL)

Mains: 2 Carvin TR-1503's
Frequency Response: 48 Hz to 19 kHz ±3 dB
Useable Low Frequency: 36 Hz (-10 dB)
Power Handling: 600w Continuous Program Pw
Recommended Amp: 100 to 1200 watts
Sensitivity: 103 dB SPL, 1 Watt @ 1 meter
Coverage Angles: 90° Horizontal, 45° Vertical
Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm
Crossover Type: C1503 Constant Voltage
Inputs/Outputs: Two 1/4", two Speakonâ„¢
Bi-Amp Support: Yes—Panel Switch
Horn Driver Protection: Yes
Woofer Enclosure Type: Vented Box

Thanks for your assistance!

Stix

Gadget

Well my friend your TERRIBLY under powered...Sorry that's just the facts...the reason I say this (and hey... Carvin over rates their speakers in my opinion...but even they rate the tops at 600 continuous... but say right in the spec sheet amps 100-1200 watts? what the heck is 100 watts going to do? NOT much I'll tell you that... the 1200 watts however, gives you a little headroom... over the program rating... Now, that's a fullrange rating and were not going to run them fullrange so we don't NEED that much power... however they will not come alive like they would with the 1200 watts... that said...

I would go no lower than the 110hz you were using before.. so lets look at a setup for your system...

Use the Wizard
1. Set up an all custom (amps and speakers) 2x3 config (stereo tops and mono subs) set an HPF of 45hz BW18
2. Set the LPF for the subs @ 110-120hz LR 24... you may want to experiment a little
3. Set the HPF for the subs @ whatever you decide on for the HPF for the subs...@ LR24
4. Whenever possible put BOTH subs together in a block... I DO NOT CARE if you don't have a way to get the other speaker up you are so under powered you need EVERY advantage...

well that's the way I see it...

Gadget

stix518

Gee Gadget... That's funny cuz I was running the tops with one of the XLS602's bridged @ 4 ohms (1680 watts) (I have two of them) and I was told by a respected member of another forum that I was playing with fire and that the 500/side stereo with the GX5 would be more than enough to drive my tops efficiently. Certainly not looking to argue but what you're saying is counter to what he said - oh well. Thank you so very much for the input regarding the crossover settings... I've been playing and am impressed (so far) with what it sounds like now vs. the standard 223xl crossover - especially with the subharmonic filter on - subs seemed to come alive! I'll keep playing like you suggest!

Stix

Gadget

Main Amp: QSC GX5 (500W/Side @ 8 Ohms)
(Stereo off Mid L & R on the 223XL)

Sorry... didn't see the X2 for the tops amps...

Gadget

Warning about the sub synth...with that limited power you have be careful... you could damage those speakers.... also in live situations with the xover point that high it may well end up getting the vocals muddy and in the subs... and that won't be good...

G

stix518

Okay Gadget, here's what I've done to try and rectify my underpower issue...

I've taken the two XLS602's and the two subs and dedicated one amp to one Sub bridged at 1200 watts @ 8 ohms. Should provide ample headroom for the subs, no?

Kept the GX5 at 500 watts per side @ 8 ohms directed at the tops.

Crossover point on the drpa is at 112 with all of the settings you suggested with no Subharmonic Synth. Matched the system for unity with the Pink Noise then played some Steely Dan through the rig to set the final levels. Finally, set the limiters to (semi) protect my investment. Stuff sounds real good! Should I be worried about driving the subs @ 1200 watts each based on their power rating? Any other suggestions??

Stix

Dra

Was the other forum Harmony Central? They press that speakers should only be fed their continuous power rating. PSW stresses MORE power, 2-4 times continuous. Sometimes it is hard to get you head around, but they are both right for different reasons.
If the subs slap or fart, it is either too much power or too much movement from EQ or content (or all the above).
Good luck.

DRA

Gadget

Just remember that clip lights are the enemy, so gain structure is important...whan the mixer clips, the amps should be below that clip point. Glad to hear they are sounding good!
G

StephanC

If at first you don't succeed try again. Just did an Auto EQ on my Carvin 1503's and chose the EQ curve with a little bass boost and a slight cut on the highs (Sorry don't have the PA in front of me to say 1,2,3 or ABor C) but it sounds much clearer, the highs seemed strained before (or course it was indoors) Can't wait for warmer weather to do the outside Auto EQ :-)

stix518

One other thing...

The 1503's have a switch on the built-in crossover that offer "bi-amp" or "full-range". I'm assuming that they should be "full-range". With the drpa pulling everything below 112hz out and sending it to the subs, that would mean that the 500W/side of the GX5 would actually provide more oooomph as it is now dedicated for the above 112hz that would normally be handled (and split) by the internal crossover on the speaker, no? i.e. the lower crossover is actually not even a factor cuz all of those frequencies aren't even being sent to the 1503 therefore the 500W is a true 500W dedicated to the upper frequencies. Or am I just totally screwed up?

Stix

Dra

Yes, definately full range. The x-over is still going to eat power. The output of the speaker is not the issue, but the amp just gained a good bit of headroom (reserve power) because the speaker is "requesting" less information.

DRA

PS - or something like that.

Gadget

You could have done the same thing with a PEQ on the hi outs and one on the low outs...and then you could set the sound the way YOU like it... not using some preordained curve that someone else set up because of the inadequacies of their system response...or someones idea of how to deal with the Fletcher Munson curve :roll: