PSW question

Dra

I bridged the JBL SRX728 subs and daisy chained the PRX535's. I set the DriveRack for both the tops and bottoms at 75%. And then I adjusted the amps and the tops to 75%. I noticed that the amps and the PRX535's were not clipping at all, but the DriveRack PA+ was often redlining when the music was loud.

Does this mean that the music was just playing too loud? If so, was I putting my equipment at risk even though the amps and tops were not clipping?

Driverack at 75%? What is he talking about?

DRA

Gadget

Beats me.. :?

Dr. J

Dra is he referring to the "Amp Sensitivity" settings in the DR setup wizard? Is it his DR INPUT or OUTPUT meters that are clipping? Sounds like a Gain Structure issue.

Dr. J

I wonder if the guy has a tiny "trim" knob on the back of his mixer set wide open (My Presonus has one) that allows you to increase the input signal to the DR since in the DR you can't increase the Input signal. I guess the guy needs to list everything. Ex. Amp sensitivity settings if there are any, XO gain settings & just how he set his gain structure.

Gadget

Ya... J how did that all come out anyway? The Presonus and all..? ever get an answer about it? Or did they just fix it...
G

Dr. J

I had to send the board back. They replaced the Input / Output board, The power supply and the Firewire card. It seems to be working very well right now. The polarity of the Main Outs were even Inverted. They sent out an update that corrected it. They now have a new 24 channel digital console....... have you seen it? Really nice. It is a great little board but they had issues with the early models. I would say the first 6 months worth of boards. After I got the board back -- I checked everything out on it. The signal coming into the DR is EVEN left & right for Input & Output which in turn balanced everything else out. The main outs read the same with a multimeter now. I basically got a new board -- so all is good. Very happy with it.

Gadget

Ya I was privy on the unit before it was announced even. waiting to see one in person.. I like the addition of the xtra busses..and feature set.

Dr. J

I like the ability to save your settings. I have been doing more and more sound gigs lately and I can't believe how fast I can get the band up and running with everything saved. I mean with bands that I have previously ran sound for. First time bands take me a bit but once dialed in and saved -- next time around is way easier. I had my buddies band pretty much where I kept it the whole night (except volume) from song one. Really cool! The gates on it are sweet. You hear a floor tom ringing out too long .... no problem.... select the channel the floor tom is in and hit "GATE" and start closing it down till it rings out just the right amount. Next -- hit SAVE. There was a sound guy (20yrs+ experience) came up to me the other night and wanted to know where all of my outboard gear was. I told him he was looking at it (The StudioLive). He was in shock! He said: "Where is your graphic EQ?" I said I don't use any..... and he said "WHAT"! I told him I actually had one in each DR plus there is a GEQ on the MAINs on the StudioLive but I don't really use them because I use the Parametrics instead. He said -- I can't work without a GEQ. I then asked him.....Just what would you change if I let you behind the board and let you into the GEQ? He said NOTHING -- It sounds awesome and I don't know how you did it!

Funny huh?

Dennis

Dr. J wrote:

Funny huh?

No, it's kind of sad........

Dr. J

Yeah -- I guess it is sad. I tried to explain it (Flat Response) to him but he wasn't listening. "Flat" in his eyes meant "It should sound terrible". I couldn't get through to him although he loved the system. A few months back there was a quote in FOH magazine that said "Old Sound Guys Must Die". They really must have been referring to those who are stubborn and won't listen & not really old. I know a lot of stubborn people when it comes to their PA's. I'm just glad that when I got into sound -- I hadn't been taught anything I was emotionally attached to and actually have it be wrong. I am kind of embarrassed when I go back and read some of my first posts on the forum here but it was all new to me. If it weren't for Gadget, Dennis and DRA -- I would still be diagnosing my system at every gig rather than being on the creative side of the mixer. I saw another great band over the weekend BUT had terrible sound. Very LOUD and HARSH. It really bothered me that the place was packed and the average person didn't seem to mind it at all. Makes me wonder "Why bother?" People are clueless. But then again -- when all PA's in this area sound that way (Except mine) there isn't anything for people to reference it to. So -- I really enjoy going in to a club and making the band sound the best I can. Never had a bad remark yet. Only good.

Gadget

I started a war up here when I dared to suggest that there was a better way to run sound. That the bowl curve eq (all lows and shreaky hi's ..no mids :roll: must not be Blose ) was NOT the way it should be. It took years to break through the barriers, but I was doing high profile out-state bands not local ones. They were fiercely loyal and even when my price was cut in half they never wavered one iota...As the people got into the sound at our club, with higher quality bands and sound, and our crowds were crazy...others not so good. Then we started having local bands occasionally that had no option of doing their own sound, and they started to see the benefits of good sound right away.

Now it's pretty good here, there isn't much DSP in use other than me but the sound at least isn't the bowl curve sound .

That's why were here.. improving sound one sound guy at a time...
G

Dr. J

I still haven't gone into a venue and ran Smaart. I already have an aligned system with a response that is as smooth as I can get it. Outdoors of course. It sounds really good the way it is but I would like to learn what to do once I get it inside. Dennis told me that depending on the room -- it could throw my sub alignment off with my tops ... especially if the floor is uneven (sloped) but I never run into that yet. As far as seeing what the room does to my response --- never checked that either. Even if it did change the response which I am certain it would -- what would I do OR does the change really demonstrate that the bar owner should invest in some acoustic treatment for his highly reflective pole barn? Most bar owners I know would not even consider acoustic treatment as a valid business investment.

Dr. J

Let me ask in a different way...... When you run the Auto EQ or Smaart with pink noise inside a venue and you see what the room has done to your system do you #1. Go with what the EQ says and except the changes OR are you better off leaving it alone and finding the cause of what changed the response.... ex. Air duct work or concrete front and back walls...etc. Frequencies have wavelengths which should clue us in on what is going on and try to address it there. I have some friends that ask me why I haven't ever ran the system inside but I think they think you are supposed to except what the result is BUT I am under the impression that it really just demonstrates the place needs acoustic treatment rather than me change the EQ. I don't know...... I guess just pack the place and not worry about it right?

Gadget

What works best is to try and use placement to get the sound on the people and off the hard surfaces. That is why those 90 degree pattern horns are such a pain...they throw sound everywhere, and in small reflective rooms it doesn't allow you to keep the sound off the hard surfaces.

Also, placement can cause some funny things to happen to the sound. There is a great Pat Brown article in the Feb 2010 issue of Live Sound International where he talks about boundary interaction.. Interesting read, Boundary's are NOT a speakers friend (except horns where the sound is so directional as to not be affected by boundary's)...
G