DRPA+ Delay setings, automatic?????? how?
zx4u2nv
Posts: 11
I have read everywhere in the foroms but have yet to see a explanation on how to set it it up "properly"
also I'm using a Behringer EP2500 for the subs, I have tried to select the QSC RMX2450 in the wizard andalso tried coustom, problem starts when auto level is finished. It wants to turn down output to the point it is almost unheard, then when trying to set gain structure high end is good but low ch. has clip lights on and only one green light. very confusing
also I'm using a Behringer EP2500 for the subs, I have tried to select the QSC RMX2450 in the wizard andalso tried coustom, problem starts when auto level is finished. It wants to turn down output to the point it is almost unheard, then when trying to set gain structure high end is good but low ch. has clip lights on and only one green light. very confusing
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What top speakers?
On what amp?
Sub speakers?
On what amp?
Current settings in DRPA?
Amp settings?
DRA
Sonic scoope 18" carvin on Behringer EP2500
DRPA+
X-over =
35.5hz BW6 -10db
100hz LR12
100hz LR12 10db
GEQ was set automaticly in wizard
also is there a way to look at what the amp presets are doing or it just matching input sensitivity?
XTI and EP are both set standard with "no" settings of functions turned on
I set attenuators to the DRPA+ suggestion 57% for XTI
and 37% for EP2500 "using the RMX2450 amp selction", "only because it is the same amp with the same specs"
I have tried to set DRPA+ to both -10 and +4 only real difference is that -10 has a little more output at the expence of some added noise
wich brings me to my mixer which is a Behringer PMP5000 "yes it is powered" "yes it is Behringer" but i think for the money they are the best boards on the planet and sound better then the Mackies that they were copied from. with that said. this board does not have balanced outputs.
You should maybe try these settings...
45hz BW18 Highpass for the subs (couldn't find anything like that (sonic scoop?) from carvin??)
Your 100hz is fine but you should change the slope to LR24, or BW18 or 24...
then instead of using the auto level try this method:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=959
This setup is the gain structure method and requires a manual balance of the tops and subs AFTER we determine the clip points of the amps...
I "ASSume" here that you mean you auto eq'ed the speakers because the wizard does NOTHING to the geq at all...and no PEQ's will be set either...
More info on the subs..
Gadget
I just noticed your headline.. what are you looking for there? you only have 10ms to work with anyway...(about 9 feet) so it's alignment delay only, usually used to align components within a bi-amp/tri-amp type passive speaker...
Sonic scoope cabs
www.sonicspeaker.com/118scoop.htm
I loaded them with Carvin drivers wich are actualy Selenium 18SW1P
and yes, I do mean auto EQ
ok so here is where i am at now........
DRPA+ =
input switch - +4
x-over
low out - HP 35.5 BW6 8db
low out - LP 100 BW24 8db
limiter -
low = overeasy 7
threshold - 4db
high = overeasy 4
threshold 8db
compresor = no
delay = no
PEQ = no
GEQ = no
feedback = no
subharmonic = no
high amp = Crown XTI 4000
no limiters or dsp
attenuators at 57% (or 2 clicks passed 50%)
low amp = Behringer EP 2500
no limiters
attenuators at 50% (staight up)
WAYYY to low a frequency, you don't have anywhere near the power or speakers to accomplish that... you WILL hurt those drivers...
The crossover slope is WAYYY to shallow to stop those low frequencies from causing over Xmax excursion...
use the BW18 @ 45 hz like I suggested...
I don't get this, you should have a 2X3 setup and the hi outs should be 100hz BW24 or LR24
The Subs should be on the left low out @ BW18 @ 45hz HPF and BW24 (match the adjacent crossover) @100hz
No limiters till the whole setup process is completed...
Did you read the stuff I asked you to?
Gadget
yes I did read and moved to the next step of "Super Duper Limiter Procedure"
the high output is at 100hz BW24 "sounded best to my ears" (but i still have no EQ of any kind in place)
DRPA+ is in 2x3
G
if i pick low amp custom drpa sets x-over output level to -4db
so with that said, I have now saved 2 presets (not sure which to use)
preset1 = with the x-over output at -4db (default) behringer at one click past 75%
input of drpa green light 10, lit
output low = green light 20 blinking
output high = green light 10 lit
preset2 = with x-over output at 0db behringer at 70% or 2 clicks before 75%
High amp still at 57% but clip lights do not come on unless i turn up to 75%
Some speakers have internal speaker protection which uses a small light-bulb to absorb peak wattage. This can be a very scary thing to discover at a show. I once had a singer run out of the room screaming when he saw his monitor light up. (he was under the influence of chemicals and thought the monitor was possesed by demons)If this happens,try not to over-react,just turn the output gain down. And get the singer back on stage!
I actualy seen a guitar player stop playing and grab the mic from the singer to tell the sound guy that "the speaker was on fire"
As for your other post I'm afraid I'm lost here...
Clearly (at least in my mind) the post here:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=959
We indicate that if you leave the xover gains at -0- dB and use the amp input sensitivity controls to set the system balance (system balance simply means that in a tops subs system, that you have the tops as loud as the subs, and in a three way system, the horns, mids and subs are all "roughed in" to be basically equal in volume with respect to each other)
FORGET HERE THE SETUP WIZARD AMP SENSITIVITY SUGGESTIONS!
The gain structure is aimed at getting all the pieces of equipment talking the same (voltage) language... so once we have determined at what level the amps clip, we can balance the systems output by turning DOWN the louder amp/components to match the least loud one be it a 2 way, three way 4 way...etc...
THEN after we balance the system we do an auto eq to flatten the speakers...
So please if your having a specific problem be very specific what you have done, AND what you want to know...
Gadget
Now, if you insist on using the "amp sensitivity" setting method, you will need to change the xover gain settings to balance the system... this will change the "acoustic xover point (as will the other method but not nearly as much as I have found)
ok so the best i can tell "or whats seems correct to me" is that im not getting enough signal into the drpa+ when my board is into the point where it starts to distort "which is way before it clips" the input meters on the drpa are at 30 with the 20 light blinking.
now setting it up with that in account, i have to turn down the high amp to match subs. I guess my real issue is gonna come in play when I try to use the compresor, the compresor needs signal to compress ??????
the only question I have besides that is is there a proper why of setting the delay when using a 2 way system? my biggest problem is the scoop subs that throw out the sound.
so your board distorts before it clips? Your using the +4 setting on the DRPA? Your board looks as if it puts out +21 dB. I use the Eurorack 3282 myself and I have no problem with distortion, but the outputs are XLR balanced...Are you using TRS to XLR converters from the stereo outs on the mixer to the XLR's on the Driverack or 1/4" mono jacks?
Why would you want to compress the whole mix? I can see limiting, but compressing? That can cause feedback and a number of other issues.
As for the delay, the only way you can do it is to play something and then slowly add delay to the tops till you hear a difference, or play a tone within the capability of the tops and the subs, (say 100 hz remembering that you have to lower the HPF of the tops and raise the LPF of the subs in the crossover so the speakers are getting those frequencies) reverse the polarity of one of the components (sub or top) and listen for a null as you increase the delay from zero...make sure the sub and top are together (top on sub), and that the fronts are lined up.
Scoops huh? man that's an old design..those things were popular back in the 70's :shock: :shock: I'm quite surprised that someone is still making them.
G
I find the system seems more uniform tight when it all has some compresion, I'm not trying to squash the sound
and I don't usualy have a issue with feedback but could you explain how compression can lead to it????? "confused" lol
Compression is a more active little devil that acts on both ends of the threshold... the signals that exceed set threshold are again hit with whatever maximum level is set, but the compressor actually hunts for signals that fall below the threshold and applies gain to them until they meet that set threshold. Because they don't meet the gain limit set by the limit portion it continues to increase the gain till it excites the room and causes feedback. This can be especially problematic in monitors.
I think live performance is altogether to often squashed lifeless with too much compression. I understand the desire to do so, most all of our contemporary recordings have had all the life and dynamics squashed out of it by over processing, all in the name of maximum volume... The "LISTEN TO ME" "I'M LOUDEST ...WAY LOUDER THAN THE NEXT GUY!" and at the expense of true performance dynamics... your quiet passages ...gone, your crescendo's... gone. all that's left is lifeless representations of a dynamic performance art...note that there are other tools at our disposal that can be used on certain things like drums and that is gates...there is also keyed frequency (side chain) limiting, ducking and others
Compression should be used on a per channel basis, and even then carefully crafted to minimally affect the source, or set to be used as an effect, not just applied to everything just simply because "everybody does it" I assure you I do not! Let the music breath, let the dynamics enhance the performance...If you come on a band that has so little control over their own dynamics that the performance suffers... then your mileage may vary.. but consider limiting instead of compressing the life out of things...
If you find that you really have to apply compression to the whole mix then use it wisely...I have for this purpose set up an example of what might be an example of minimal compression that I found effective in assuaging a club owner when he thought it was too loud.
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1488
YMMV
Gadget