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Please confirm this setup...UPDATE: DRPA purchased

tado921tado921 Posts: 16
edited May 2010 in PA Connectivity
Hello,

I've been thinking that we could make our sound better, so I started researching and here I am. The DRPA+ sounds like just the ticket for us, and I am 99% sure I will buy one. I went through the information provided here, I just want to run it by you guys to make sure I've got it right.

The Band: 5 piece classic rock cover band, playing local bar gigs a few times a month. No sound guy, I run it from the stage and am pretty much a noob.

The rig:

Yamaha EMX312SC powered mixer
QSC GX5 power amp
Peavey PV12M mains (2)
Peavey PV118 subs(2)
Kustom KSC10ML Monitors (2)

Everything is run mono with the power amp in crossover mode so that Ch1 powers the subs and CH2 powers the mains (100hz X-over). Setup like this:

Mixer--(mono full range)-->Power Amp CH1--(lows)
>Sub---->Sub
Power Amp CH2--(mid/high)-->Main--->main


The mono signal to the power amp is a line out from the mixer, and we use the internal power amp on the mixer to power the monitors. My thinking is to run this signal to the PA+, and connect it to the power amp which be run in full range mode. I will let the DRPA+ handle the crossover function instead of the amp. Like so:


Mixer--(mono full range)--DRPA+---lows
>Power Amp CH1---->Sub---->Sub
DRPA+---high/mid
>CH2---->Main--->main


The monitor setup will remain unchanged (for now). It looks like this configuration will work, so the question is will I still be able to take advantage of the various wizards to dial in the system? Is there a better way to set it up with out adding additional hardware?

We do plan to upgrade down the road with better mains and a better monitor rig, but this works for us for now. I just think the PA+ will give us better bang for the buck at this point. What say you?

Thanks! :)

Tad

Comments

  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    It will certainly make a big difference in your system. I would suggest you run the subs through the Driverack though... and there are several ways to accomplish this. You could even run the mains in a tops and subs configuration, and run one channel of monitors this way and have the benefits on both.

    Here is a thread that gives you an idea how this works:
    viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2228

    Happy to answer any questions you have...

    Gadget
  • tado921tado921 Posts: 16
    Wow, that was quick, thanks!

    I read the link and I think I understand it. I drew up a diagram, let me know if this is right for the physical connections. Also, it looks like we will have to add an amp for the monitors since we run them direct from the mixer at this point. Can I assume that the connections will be the same without the monitors for now, then we add them in later?

    Soundsetup.gif
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    That would be it...nice diagram! That mixer is REALLY of limited usefulness isn't it :roll: If there was a simple mixer out/power amp in port it would be simple...

    You have it cold!
    G
  • tado921tado921 Posts: 16
    Cool, thanks again :)

    Feel free to use the diagram if you think it will help others.

    I do like this mixer for smaller setups, but it looks like we are starting to outgrow it. Ah well, it does the job for now and has been super reliable, no trouble with it at all. I'll get the DRPA this week and report back with the results, probably after our next gig (May 1st) unless I have trouble with the setup.

    I appreciate your input.

    Tad
  • tado921tado921 Posts: 16
    UPDATE:

    I purchased the DRPA+ and RTA mic. I partially went through the setup, getting the speaker config done. I had a small problem until I figured it out and thought I would post it in case anyone else is trying it.

    I followed the instructions in Gadget's post above. I had selected "Custom" for all the hardware, but when I got to Step 12 I could not select the Mid crossover. It took a while to figure it out: I had to select "Custom BiAmp" for the tops in order to be able to setup the Mid output seperately.

    I wasn't sure of the exact settings for the X-over points, so I went back through the setup wizard from the beginning and input my exact models, then went into the X-over section and wrote down what the DRPA had configured. I then started over and when I got to the X-over setup, I was able to input the settings I had written down and set the Mid X-over to match my monitors.

    I skipped the auto-level wizard for now and just followed the "Gain Structure" procedure. This worked perfectly and the system already sounds better, even without auto-EQ. I think its because the crossover point is much higher (180Hz instead of 100HZ). This seems to have cleaned up the tops and the clarity is like night and day.

    A couple of questions about auto-level and auto-EQ:

    1. I tried the auto-level wizard but it could never seem to get a good signal from the mic. I had it setup between the stacks about 15 feet out, and it got crazy loud but would not finish the setup. I think I read somewhere that this should be done with just one stack running. Is that correct? any other tips?

    2. I read the post about auto-EQ and how it should not be used to EQ a room, only to help flatten the system. I am able to do this outdoors (big backyard), but I'm not clear on where to place the mic. Also, should I only do this with a single stack as above?

    Any tips are appreciated.

    Tad
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Yes a 2x6 is a biamp tops and stereo subs... seems kinda weird to have to look at it that way but dbx was trying to simplify the setup process for newbies that were having trouble with configurations...

    The same is true with the auto level setup, but it doesn't work well when you split things up this way to get the monitors on the mid outs...

    Mic on a stand, half way between the stacks is a recipe for disaster...multiple paths for the sound to get to the mic is a bad idea...

    IF your going to try indoor auto eq place the mic on the floor 20-25 feet out (if possible.. and the mic must
    see" the HF horn in the tops so aim at the speaker and be far enough out to insure the horns pattern covers the mic) on the floor on a towel or some other non reflective surface, one stack only...

    Outdoors you can probably get away with a mic stand, just make sure your sound has an unimpeded path and no reflective surfaces (even tar or concrete.. or trees if possible) for a good long distance..
    set up a flat response and save that to the memories...as a flat preset.. you can use this for determining what a room is doing to the sound...and try and make changes to the speaker position and aiming to minimize the rooms effect.
    G
  • tado921tado921 Posts: 16
    I actually wound up with a 2X5 config by setting the subs to mono. It didn't seem like it would matter in this case, but if you think I should make it 2X6 I will.

    If I do auto-EQ outdoors I can easily get at least 200 feet away from everything with the system sitting on grass. You said I could "probably" get away with using a mic stand. Should I set the mic on the ground instead? I can also use a boom stand and set it very low, pointing up at the horn, one stack only.

    I do have the space to do it indoors as well, but I think outdoors would be better. Is that correct?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    If you select a 2x5 you will be summing the monitor and mains feeds :shock: use 2x6

    I put the mic on a stand about 20-25 feet out aimed between the horn and mid..try both, it's easy..compare.. try closer and farther away.. store them all.. try indoors on the ground as above and compare.. see which you like best, which sounds best to YOUR ears...and yes one stack only.

    Gadget
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Gadget wrote:
    If you select a 2x5 you will be summing the monitor and mains feeds :shock: use 2x6


    Gadget

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 2x5 would only sum the low content of the mains and monitor feeds. But since you are crossing at 180hz.....

    why 180? That's seems like a lot of trash in the subs.

    DRA
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Gadget wrote:
    If you select a 2x5 you will be summing the monitor and mains feeds :shock: use 2x6


    Gadget

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 2x5 would only sum the low content of the mains and monitor feeds. But since you are crossing at 180hz.....

    why 180? That's seems like a lot of trash in the subs.

    DRA
  • tado921tado921 Posts: 16
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 2x5 would only sum the low content of the mains and monitor feeds.

    That's what I thought as well, the mids would still be separated and I have the mid X-over setup to match my monitor speakers. Gadget, I will take your advice and use 2X6 (it only takes a few seconds to change it), but can you explain further?

    As for the 180Hz, when I ran the standard 2X4 setup to get the settings that the DRPA selects, that's what it came up with. I just used those in my custom setup. According to the PV118 specs it can handle it, and the system as a whole does sound better.
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    unfortunately... that is what Peavey specs for some reason.. and instead of using a "sensible" xover frequency they (some of dbx engineers.. not all) will NOT provide anything other than what the manufacturer recommends.. Now I'm not saying that Peavey would even spec that high a crossover frequency, but since they don't provide "tunings" dbx used what they could find.. I recommend 120 hz at this point...LR24 in this case..

    As for the reasons for 2x6... we want to keep a complete separate path through the DRPA (as best we can) when doing two separate things like FOH and monitors...it's one thing having stereo signals that have basically similar variations on a theme, but doing monitors and FOH I would want both separate... the auto eq sequence will work better too.
    G
  • tado921tado921 Posts: 16
    Gig report:

    Short version: :mrgreen:

    Long version:

    I had to go out of town on short notice last week, so I didn't get a chance to finish EQing the rig. Even so, in my tests the system sounded better so I ran it as is, fully prepared to yank the DRPA out if needed. The rest of the band hadn't heard it yet, I had only used CDs to dial it in, so we weren't sure how the DRPA would respond with half of a setup and live sound for the first time.

    Well, we could tell during line and sound checks that it was MUCH better. The lows were nice and tight with no boom from the kick drum. The vocals were much clearer and out front, and most of the muddiness was gone. Our sound was so different that it actually threw us off a little in the first set, and I had to bring up the vocals some because the crowd was saying they couldn't hear the singers. Once those tweaks were done though...WOW. We were able to lower our stage volume, and yet FOH was louder and cleaner with no feedback issues at all. Our bass player said "Oh yeah, thats a keeper!"

    I really think the DRPA has taken us to the next level sound wise, and it isn't fully configured yet! I can't wait to finish dialing it in. :mrgreen:
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Nice! 8) keep us informed..
    g
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