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Lack of volume after using set up wizard
bttaylormade
Posts: 8
Hi,
I've been using a Drive rack PX for a couple of years now, usually with pretty good results.
However, I do find that I am having to push the main faders on the desk much higher than usual,after I set up using the Drive Rack 'Wizard' program.
I use ;
Allen & Heath - Mix Wizard Desk
2 x Mackie 450's
&
2 x Mackie 1501's
I can only achieve the levels I want with the output meters on the desk meters registering around +6 to +9.
Before using the Drive Rack , I had a Behringer Ultra Curve and did not have to drive the desk so hard to get the level that I wanted.
All ideas welcome.
Thanks.
I've been using a Drive rack PX for a couple of years now, usually with pretty good results.
However, I do find that I am having to push the main faders on the desk much higher than usual,after I set up using the Drive Rack 'Wizard' program.
I use ;
Allen & Heath - Mix Wizard Desk
2 x Mackie 450's
&
2 x Mackie 1501's
I can only achieve the levels I want with the output meters on the desk meters registering around +6 to +9.
Before using the Drive Rack , I had a Behringer Ultra Curve and did not have to drive the desk so hard to get the level that I wanted.
All ideas welcome.
Thanks.
0
Comments
You could easily go in and increase the gain of the crossover stage to get the desired mixer level...BUT a gain structure is the best way to do this:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=959
Gadget
Thanks for the reply.
I am using a Drive rack PX, not the PA variant, which I think is more 'pre-set' driven than the 'PA' variant.
When I use the 'Wizard', it asks for the make of the powered speakers that are being used and it then sets up cross-overs etc from the pre-set automatically but as far as I can see does not offer any options regards crossover gain.
The only 'gains' that I have found are in the 'compressor' menu.
If I am missing something, please tell me where to look in the menu's
The gain structure is problematic with powered speakers because unlike using 'power amps' that can be run silently without speakers connected, if you follow the DBX format for 'powered speakers', having matched the gains from the inputs (Pink Noise) and then taking the mixer to the point of clipping ,you have to run them at high volume to activate the 'clip' LED's, which would then allow me to set the limiters as required.
I do not have anywhere to run my powered speakers to such a high a volume, as I would like to remain living at peace with my neighbours for the foreseeable future.!!!
I suspect that I am missing something basic and will apreciate any advice that you may have.
Thanks again,
Bill
Yes you are missing the xover gain adjustment... you can adjust it and the other xover parameters.
find the xover page.. I have a Px but it's @ a permanent installation...I will be going there Thursday if needed but suffice it to say you can adjust:
LF output HPF
LF output LPF
LF output xover type and slope (BW, LR, and the various slopes)
LF output gain
HF output HPF
HF output xover type and slope (ditto)
HF output HPF (the DRPA and PX have no Hi output LPF)
HF output gain
Gadget
Thanks for that.
I will go and have a look at the cross-over menu and adjust the slopes etc.
I must confess that I am not too sure what I will be looking at or adjusting.
If I run into trouble I will mail again for your advice.
Thanks for your help so far.
By the by I find it incredible that I am talking to someone Minesota about a PA problem.
Ain't the internet just great ??
Thanks Again,
Bill
I have accessed the crossover pages as suggested and found the following;
I recalled a saved preset for my setup and also set up a new preset for my Mackie equipment as a 'control', in both cases the results were the same as listed below;
Pressed EQ button;
Page 1,
OUT sub
PEQ Off
Flatten
H Shelf
Page 2,
OUT sub
F1 118Hz
G 0.0dB
Q 0.26
Page 3,
OUT sub
F2 118Hz
G 0.0dB
Q 0.26
Page 4,
OUT sub
F3 118
G 0.0dB
S 4.5
Do I now turn on the PEQ and then adjust the gains, if so by how much?
I traded up to the DBX unit because it had presets for my gear (Mackie) and I had thought that I would not need make adjustments in areas that I am not really competent to mess with, i.e. crossover slopes and gain ect.
So thank you once again for your interest and help.
Bill
Please ignore previous post.
I have now re-read the manual and found how to access the crossover menu.
The unit menus do not appear to give the information as described and in the same format as in the manual.
Maybe I am still not pushing the right buttons.
I accessed one of the presets that I use and found the following;
Page 1
out SUB
OUT BW6 -3dB
Page 2,
out SUB
20.kHz LR24
Page 3,
OUT sub
100Hz BW24 3dB
Page 4,
out SUB
OUT BW6 -3dB
Now I am really lost !!!
As before, all help and advice is very welcome.
Bill
Ok, what you were looking at in your other post there is the EQ section. Those are Parametric eq's and
OUT sub is telling you that you are looking at the sub outputs (the low frequency)
PEQ Off is telling you that the peq is off, toggle it on and you'll get the ability to adjust it . when you get into PEQ's you have three types,
bell ...just what it says a bell curve with a center frequency and an adjustable bell width (Q) and gain usually used to make broad eq adjustment or precise surgical cuts.
hi shelf ...usually used to adjust for CD horn equalization.. a good explanation for this is found @ the Peavey site:
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... orn_eq.cfm
lo shelf...usually used to work with the LF in broad strokes.. adding low end or subtracting it.
As for the last post: out sub..again were looking at the sub outputs
20.khz LR24 ...telling you that the sub output is being allowed to go to 20khz.. effectively telling you that the sub output is being allowed to produce fullrange info as in a bandpass filter
Lets just look at page 16 of the manual
as per the page 3.3 navigating the filter section...
press the [setup] button...
see that it's the "hipass" for the sub output you come to first ... this is the LOWEST frequency we want the subs to reproduce...set this to the 3db down point of the sub cabinets lowest frequency.. and select BW18 as the filter type (very steep and safe for woofer over excrusion protection) note that this also has the gain for the subwoofer... this is where you turn up the sub output if you wish...
next page takes you to the "low pass" filter the HIGHEST frequency we want the subs to go...I usually use LR 24 and somewhere in the 100 hz area
next is the the "high-pass" this is where we set the lowest frequency for the tops... use the same filter type as the subs lowpass also usually the same frequency you chose for the subs lopass as well.. in this case 100hz..LR24
you will also note that here is where the hi-pass output gain is located, here is where you turn up the high outputs...
Does that help?
G
Thanks for your patience, I am beginning to see light at the ned of the tunnel and I don't think that it is a train !!
I am in a small town called Bromsgrove, in Worcestershire, in the middle of England.
I run a small covers band and am beginning to do small PA jobs for other bands, hence the need to understand and sort this issue out.
I did did what it said on page 16 ( 3.3) and came up with the results as posted below.
This is exactly what appears on the screens as I paged back and forwards, there is no indication of whether they are the HI-Pass or LO-Pass filters as far as I can see.
Can you have a look at my update to see if I am on the right track please?
SETTING FROM PRESET
CAPITAL LETTER - Highlighted in blue on screen
Page 1
out SUB
OUT BW6 -3dB
I think that this means that there is no Lowest frequency set but a -3dB slope?
PROPOSED SETTINGS OUT BW18 -3dB
Page 2,
out SUB
OUT LR24
Does this mean that the sub is set to have a highest frequency of 20kHz or is this page the highest frequency for the Mackie 450's 'tops' ?
Page 3,
OUT sub
100Hz BW24 3dB
I think that this one is the cross over frequency for the subs does also it mean that there is a 3dB gain?
Page 4,
out SUB
OUT BW6 -3dB
If this is a HI- PASS filter, I think that it goes up 20kHz and has a -3dB slope or is this where I can turn up the gain?
Page 5
out SUB
OUT LR24
Page 6
OUT sub
100Hz LR24 3.0dB
Page 7
out SUB
OUT BW6 -3.0db
Page 8
out SUB
OUT LR24
Page 9
OUT sub
100Hz LR 24 -3.0 dB
Sorry but I am still lost !!
As before, your advice and help is very welcome.
Thanks ,
Bill
Frequency (hz)
Filter type (slope)
db (gain)
If you see "OUT" "BW6" -3db...
then there is not low filter set for the sub output. In other words, if a 5hz signal is sent to the DR then it will pass it to the amp and speaker (hence..."OUT"). Generally we recommend a setting of no lower than 35-45hz, in most set-ups.
Butterworth filter type with a 6 db/octive slope. Could be BW18 (18db/octive), etc. We typically recommend BW18 for the sub low cut (hi pass).
xxx db is the gain of that filter, in this case... -3 db.
You would scroll over and hi-light it and turn the data wheel to change.
The next screen will be the hi-cut (lo pass) of the sub frequency and it's filter type and slope. (there may or may not be a gain indicator on this page as well. I don't recall.
The proccess continues for the high outputs.
The sub (lo-pass) and highs (hi-pass) are typically the same and we usually go with something in the range 0f 90 - 120hz, with 100hz being pretty popular. The filter and slope that seems to be the most used is LR24.
DRA
DRA
Thank you for your replies and help.
Like everything else, the question is easy if you know the answer !!!
I think that with your help the penny has finally dropped.
I also think that my earlier 'messing about' had corrupted some of the settings,which also didn't help !!
I have now re-set the crossovers, using your preferred settings and will try them at our next rehearsal.
I,ll post how we get on.
Thanks again,
Bill