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System Suggestions/Advice

RRJRRJ Posts: 17
edited June 2010 in dbx Archive General Discussion
Looking to replace my current setup:

2 - JBL PRX515
1 - JBL VRX918SP
1 - DRPX

I currently use this system for Dj'ing but have been also hit up by some friends in bands to provide a system. Mostly do small venues (small bars/clubs, house parties, etc.). Crowd ranges from 75-200. The reason I want to upgrade is that I've never been completely happy with the sound of the 515's, and I'm looking to try to find a lighter sub since I have to carry this stuff up and down a flight of stairs. Also, I need to stick to a 2 top/1 sub combo as I have a small SUV.

I like the convenience of self powered but I'm not opposed to going the separate amplifier route. Would like some suggestions from you folks on speakers/sub/amp combination's. I know I'll be going to at least a DRPA+ or DR260. Also, I "AM" willing to go the non-JBL route. In terms of budget, $4-5k is where I would like to stay, unless I'm convinced otherwise.

I believe in one post DAS RF12.64 were highly recommend with Crown amps (Xti i think.). As for sub not sure where to start...

Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Non powered speakers and separate amps will give you more total weight, but less weight on each trip, so that may be something to think about.

    You didn't mention monitors.
    Is you $4-5K budget just for speakers and amps, or for everything including mics, cable, fx, mixers, etc?

    While the DRPA+ will do a good job. You really should get the 260. It'll let you control mains (mono) and one monitor mix.

    What kind of bands are you wanting to do?

    DRA
  • RRJRRJ Posts: 17
    Dra

    Thanks for responding. I did forget monitor, but focus is on speakers and amps since for the most part it will be a DJ system. Borrowing everything else for band events (80's/Rock cover bands). I would the its a 70/30 split (DJ/Bands) for now.
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Hi,
    The DAS 1264's(http://www.dasaudio.com/index.asp?pagin ... =1&lang=en) will wipe the floor with those JBL's... Not a whole lot lighter in weight but a whole lot better in vocal sound... the JBL's horns are harsh, and brittle sounding and the 15" is NOT a good midrange...The 12" is far smoother, but you will need to cross them a little higher.

    As for the low end...Dr. J has those tops, and the Fane DIY boxes that are available here for download... the 15" is a 125 liter (small) 15" that has the output of an 18" with much less truck pack and less weight... especially when loaded with a NEO woofer with 4" voice coil like the the P Audio:
    http://www.loudspeakersplus.com/cgi-bin ... n&key=P15N But are very potent and a few [pounds heavier with the P Audio "C15-600" (challenger) series woofer at half the cost.

    Now, one small woofer can be good, but 2 is far more than one.. because of the 3dB gain (free) from 2 in near proximity.. If one is all you need, then you need a powerful amp to push it. Unfortunately the XTi series has been deemed a poor choice for sub duty. Personally I have been waiting for the new Peavey IPR series amps... huge ;power and DSP for pennies on the dollar...However the recession has slowed the manufacturers response on the parts needed and the amps have yet to be given an actual delivery date. You would need an amp that could produce 2400 peak watts (short term) into 8 ohms...1200 watts continuous...

    Now, I have limited experience with the QSC PLX series and they seem capable but spendy.. the Crown IT HD series are well worth the money, but VERY spendy...There are plenty of spendy amps that are great, but few powerful amps that are inexpensive that are great... I have used the Behringer EPX3000 and was happy with it in the short term... but have no longevity reports as this is a new amp, but CHEAP.. like $300 for 3000 watts! (NSL pricing)

    So, for under $700 (amps price) and a mono system, you could have 1500 watts for each DAS 1264, and 1250 watts bridged mono for the single 15" sub... add another and have DOUBLE available for the pair AND 3dB of free sound if placed close together...(more than twice as loud)

    This is also a building block system since the RF1264 has a 40X60 control pattern in the horn, and matches well in a 2 per side system for 120 degrees per side, and provides good horizontal control to keep the sound off the walls and on the people, and you can add more subs to the system as you move up to bigger venues...

    Gadget
  • Dr. JDr. J Posts: 209
    The D.A.S. Rf series 12.64 is an awesome little box. It weighs 55 pounds and is very easy to lug around. I only have two so far but if I had four -- they would array together very well. I think the angle is like 10 degrees. I have had several people laugh when they first see them because they can't believe a box with 12's in them can put out such big sound but they smoke my old JBL tops. I run them with four of the Fane 18 boxes. I use the 260 to control them and it is a very nice sounding system. I mostly use it in bars and small clubs.

    The 12.64 are full range so with the PX or the PA you are only gonna get 3 parametrics to work with. That's it. With the 260 you get 4 on the outputs and 9 on the input side so you can use a total of 13 parametrics. I didn't need all of them but the flexibility the 260 adds is waay above the PX and the PA.

    The Rf series tops come with factory tunings but they just didn't transfer well into the 260 & I didn't like them compared to my own setup of tunings using Smaart. If I had the D.A.S. controller (DSP-26) maybe those tunings would have been great. It's expensive.
  • RRJRRJ Posts: 17
    Gadget wrote:
    So, for under $700 (amps price) and a mono system, you could have 1500 watts for each DAS 1264, and 1250 watts bridged mono for the single 15" sub... add another and have DOUBLE available for the pair AND 3dB of free sound if placed close together...(more than twice as loud)
    Gadget

    Gadget,

    Thanks for responding. So I'm clear you are referring to bridging the DAS speakers (2-8ohms) into 4 ohms into bridged mono on 1 amp, then just bridging the single sub at 8 ohms on a seperate amp. Is that correct?

    I would like to try a get a pre-built sub vs a DIY sub if possible. Any sugesstions? Should I keep my JBL sub or is it underpowerd for the DAS speakers?
  • RRJRRJ Posts: 17
    Dr. J,

    Thanks for responding as well. Looks like a DR260 is in my future. Was hoping to get the DRPA+ since there is $100 rebate if you buy it and the RTA mic right now...
  • Dr. JDr. J Posts: 209
    RRJ -- Yes, bridge the amp. Turn input 2 knob all the way off (you won't use it) and if you are placing both tops on the amp then yes it will end up being 4 ohms. It is actually the way I am running right now since I roached an amp a month ago. The amp just gave up. I wasn't even at a gig.
  • Dr. JDr. J Posts: 209
    RRJ -- if you get the DAS Tops and the 260 -- I will give you my tunings to enter into the Driverack. You will love it!
  • DennisDennis Posts: 801
    RRJ wrote:
    Should I keep my JBL sub or is it underpowerd for the DAS speakers?
    The VRX subs are a tad underwelming.

    Dennis
  • RRJRRJ Posts: 17
    Dennis,

    Any suggestions for a sub?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_h ... =TH%20MINI ( a couple of these @ 76 lbs!)
    http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_h ... L=TH%20118 Awesome .. even in one's)buit heavy
    G
  • RRJRRJ Posts: 17
    OK, ordered the P Audio sub from Loudspeakers Plus. Hopefully it gets here before the weekend! Now to figure out best way to build the box...

    Has anyone heard of the newer crown XLS amps? would they be a good fit for both tops/sub?

    Will be putting the PRX's and VRX on Craigslist today, hopefully I can sell those quick and pick of the DAS RF12.64s.
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    well.. one amp per cab...bridged 8 ohm...that's only decent power...not optimum
  • RRJRRJ Posts: 17
    Gadget,

    So using one XLS 2500 bridged @ 8 ohms/1550w for the sub, and another bridged mono @ 4 ohms/2400w for the RF12.64 would not be good enough?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    No.. I said "ONE PER CABINET" 750 watts is not enough...(unless your only using one top and one sub..)I just put together a small system for a guy and he chose the Behringer EPX3000 amps (about $1 per watt..), and one amp bridged per pair was about right...The same goes for the tops, I would use an amp that has 1500 watts + per top.. then they will rock your world!
    G
  • RRJRRJ Posts: 17
    Got it. Yeah, I saw those amps on the Northern Sound site. Price is great but worried about the long term as you had mentioned earlier. Thinking of spending $$$ on QSC amps, they are local so from a service standpoint I might be better off no?

    Speaking of NS... Just picked up my DR260 and thank to GC price matching paid out the door less than NS on-line pricing. They sales guy was not too happy but I am ecstatic!!! Time to fire it up.
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    The QSC amps are well thought of...with the I tech amps being the preferred amp still...even with the failures...

    Personally, I'm waiting for the new Peavey amps...6000 watts, WAY under the price of the QSC PLX series.

    I have and love the Mac 3600, and until I can afford to replace them I will use them... I have found an amp that would easily replace the Mac.. but it's a Digam, and is less power ( spec) and more $$...but will drive 12, 12" subwoofer cones and cause you pain and anguish :shock: :shock:
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