Speaker placement and silly poles

scotquinn

Holy balls...

Trying to post on this forum is scary. I'm almost certain that the response to this will be something like "you moron, read the previously posted material'.

But, I digress...

Why, when bands often are fighting with a venue over volume, does everyone insist on placing the mid high parts of their system up over the heads of everyone in the listening area? Is this done just to piss off the patrons who don't want to listen to music?

Please tell me why it doesn't make sense to place speakers lower, so as to allow sound to be absorbed by dancers and seated listeners in the general area of the band?

I like the look of a speaker pile. Not that ostrich looking arrangement where the mid highs are on poles attached to the sub.

Hello from Alaska..

Scot Q. Merry

Dra

Now that's a way to get a cordial answer. :evil:

Assuming that speaker are not tilted forward, the right height typically would be to have lower projection of the horn (let's say... 90 x 45) to be where at 22 degrees the "wave" hits the front row of patrons.
If the horn is at head level the front row gets blasted and everyone behind them get an unnatural sound. If you don't believe me, set up a speaker outside about 20 ft from a tree as big as a head, then walk behind it.

DRA

PS - I have never heard anyone called a moron here. Maybe on PSW, but not here. Please post an example.

Dra

Oh, and this applies how to a Driverack? 8)

DRA

scotquinn

Hello DRA...

Upon re reading my post, I can see how it certainly sounds a bit more strident and ***holeish than I intended. I was trying to keep things light.

Please excuse me. It truly was an attempt at humor.

I have only recently started using a DRPX. Pretty much all of my questions as to that device have been well answered among the posts here on this forum. I suspect that as I dig into that piece it's possible I'll have more gaps in my knowledge. I hope that I have not made too bad of a start here. "Yall obviously know your stuff.

There does however seem to be much information of a general nature regarding sound and sound systems. I was hoping that I was not out of topic too much in asking this particular question that had been bothering me. Of course now I deserve the 'moron' tag. It should have been obvious when I think of the directional nature of the horn. I will however have to take a hack saw to a couple of poles. I am currently using Mackie 450s and SW1501s.

Q

Dra

You're cool. Lot's of off topic and general sound discussion here.

DRA

Gadget

Now lets get to the real reason for flying speakers...

The #1 reason to get the speakers up and angled down is to keep the sound off the walls and ceiling and on the audience...

It also allows the coverage pattern of the horns to be better utilized...

I could never understand why in the world people go to a bar with a band... and then complain that they can't talk.... :?
Why not go to a quiet bar that has NO band if you really want to talk???makes NO sense to me... :roll:

Gadget

scotquinn

I have read posts from you two guys so much, I feel like I"m talking to celebrities. Thank you for your help.

Now may I add a bit more?

I certainly understand controlling reflections. In fact, that was one of the reasons I have been experimenting with speaker placement.

Ceiling height certainly has a bearing on this. Is it not possible that flying the speakers could cause more reflection than having them placed lover? With these little speakers, I don't have an easy way to angle them downward. So... a lower placement will direct some toward the floor but those have a better chance of being absorbed by bodies than the waves going up toward the ceiling if I were to elevate them.

hmmm this gives me an idea. Perhaps a bent pole... the subs are heavy enough to support the 'lean'.

I am just wanting to make sure that I'm NOT choosing speaker placement on some kind of conventional, method that doesn't figure results into the equation.

Q

Gadget

I feel like I"m talking to celebrities.

Too funny...but thanks...we have been at this for a lot of years. Trying to help out one sound person at a time...

It's been dubbed "balanced speaker tilters" and they have beat you to it...

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.p ... 0/0/23700/

and it makes a lot of sense if you think about it...

Ceiling height certainly has a bearing on this. Is it not possible that flying the speakers could cause more reflection than having them placed lover?

Yes Ceiling height does play a big role in placement but it is universally accepted that if you can get em up and aim them down (and have the right speaker for the job) and get the coverage on the people and off the reflective surfaces you will always have better results.

I find that if there are mirrors on the ceiling I get better reflections of my lover
... sorry couldn't resist.

There will be reflections of lower frequencies and in most cases being right up against a boundary has frequency dependent output benefits... the exception is horns. You can place a horn on a boundary and as long as the pattern coverage doesn't actually hit said boundary, no coupling will occur. Not so for LF, and the lower the frequencies, the more they will react to the boundary. It's called 1/2 space when one boundary is involved and 1/4 space when 2 are involved. There is a corresponding 3dB of gain for each of these up to 9 dB with 3 surfaces (as in a corner where 3 walls/floor or ceiling come together) remember this though... whole space (against no boundary's) offers the best sound quality, as I said the coupling is frequency dependent.

So yes getting too close to the ceiling isn't necessarily the best way, but if the horn is on top, and the woofer is sufficiently far from the boundary, and the horn pattern doesn't interact with said boundary, then minimal interaction ...and the accompanying anomalies... should be minimal. The benefits of getting the speakers up and tilted down, far outweigh the effects of near boundary interaction.