Subwoofer placement

premier1

should sub woofers be placed one on either side of the stage? or together in back? I hear different opinions on placement for the best sound, Just wondering what the pros do, Thanks, I realize this is a forum about the drpa but just figured I could ask this here

Gadget

The answer is... it depends...
Truths:
1. Unless you can get the subs more than 50 feet apart then all together and in one location will provide the most even bass.

2. If you can get them centered clustered, and properly delayed to the L/R stacks you will have better sound all around.

3. If you have the subs (lots) and the amps (one per sub) you can shade the bass, you can steer the bass and you can create nulls (as on stage) ...

4. The easiest way to get what your looking for is, stack the ALL bass under one side (L/R), and use a tripod (on the other side) or fly the tops... unless you have the tools or chops to properly align a system.

5. one sub on each side will most likely cause an intense bass between the subs (right where YOU or the band are)
Dennis?
gadget

Dennis

premier1 wrote:

should sub woofers be placed one on either side of the stage? or together in back? I hear different opinions on placement for the best sound, Just wondering what the pros do, Thanks, I realize this is a forum about the drpa but just figured I could ask this here

Every different sub configuration has a different coverage pattern...you would want to select the coverage pattern that would best cover your venue and it's not going to be the same every time. If you haven't already read this set of articles from PSW, check them out:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/a_pr ... ubwoofers/

Dennis

twinspindj

4. The easiest way to get what your looking for is, stack the ALL bass under one side (L/R), and use a tripod (on the other side) or fly the tops... unless you have the tools or chops to properly align a system.

:? Could restate this paragraph? Put all subs on one side of DJ setup, left or right makes no difference which side? Place both Mains (tops) on the opposite side as the subs and on a Speaker Stand?

Or...are you advocating one Main on the side of the subs AND the other Main on a speaker stand on the other side where there are no subs? :roll: :?

Dennis

twinspindj wrote:

4. The easiest way to get what your looking for is, stack the ALL bass under one side (L/R), and use a tripod (on the other side) or fly the tops... unless you have the tools or chops to properly align a system.

:? Could restate this paragraph? Put all subs on one side of DJ setup, left or right makes no difference which side? Place both Mains (tops) on the opposite side as the subs and on a Speaker Stand?

Or...are you advocating one Main on the side of the subs AND the other Main on a speaker stand on the other side where there are no subs? :roll: :?

The configuration Gadget was describing is one main on each side of the stage and both subs on one side of the stage...the layout of the venue would determine which side for the subs. Things such as boundaries and room shape are the things you would consider when making your decision.

twinspindj

Thanks, Dennis, for clarification.

So...if the physical setup were as follows, where x=sub, and "---"=table, and y=spkr on stand, it would look like A, B or C?

A. "Yxx---Y"
B. "xx.........Y---Y" (xx in corner, spkr on stand center stage)
C. "Y" (pole-mounted on one Sub), then table, then "Y" on spkr stand.

At the moment, I am only using one 18" subwoofer vs two subs.

Further clarification, please...for this technically challenged "old dog."

Dra

M = Main (top) on stand
S = Sub
_______ = Table

M S M would be my personal choice for a DJ. Unless one of the mains is right next to a wall, then I'd put the sub against the wall.

DRA

Gadget

If you put the sub in the corner or against a wall you will have additional gain to the subs:
sitting on the floor = 3dB of free gain
sitting on the floor and against a wall = 6dB free gain
sitting in a corner with 2 walls and the floor = 9dB of free gain
BUT there is a caveat here... the sound will not be as flat as in free space, that is to say you will notice certain frequencies will be dominant, not as bad as in a Hermoltz resonator where you have one note that is 10dB (or more) hotter than everything else, but there will be anomalies.

Centered between the speakers on the same plane as the L/R is often my go to for livesound, but I don't think the audience will see much difference than if your one sub was under one of the tops, and as Dennis said, it can help in rooms that are difficult, or that you find coverage problems with.

As I said, the answer is..."It depends"
G

Dennis

twinspindj wrote:

At the moment, I am only using one 18" subwoofer vs two subs.

Further clarification, please...for this technically challenged "old dog."

I believe DRA answered your question...I am going to add some images to give you an idea of what goes on coverage wise. the warmer colors are higher SPL coverage and the darker colors are cancellations. I don't have time right now to do all possible configurations but the first is 2 subs 30' apart, the second is two subs coupled, and the third is a single sub.

twinspindj

Thannks guys (Dra, Gadget, Dennis). I appreciate you all taking the time to expand upon my questions. Dennis, the visual is quite an eye opener! Thanks. :shock:

Dennis, yes, I have been placing the York sub centered on an 8'ft banquet table with York tops at the ends. All are in the same plane, meaning fronts are in direct line of sight if you look from the end of the table to the other. This has been worked out fine. I have a second system that I use for smaller weddings and parties that has two 15" subwoofers (RCF) and obviously two Mains. I couple the subs together in the center for the extra dbs.

In both scenarios, I have been running the DRPA in "2-way, Mono Sub" program.

Premier 1...I hope the explanations above have helped you to understand placement, too.

premier1

Wow, well like anything else this was not an easy question! I was hoping for a "General" starting point. As it is now I have two subs and two mains, I set the mains on top of the subs via a poll that goes into the sub and just put them on each side of the stage..I also have stands, I think I may try and place the subs one on each side of the drumkit basically right together and put the mains on the sides, most clubs I play have small stage areas there is not one I can thi8nk of that has 50 feet between mains and subs ! Since I added the subs the crowd has really liked that kick in the chest feeling and it made a dramatic difference in our sound as a band, I am just trying to get the most out of what I have. when there apart the bass sound does not seem as "tight" and punchy as it does when they are closer when we rehearse, I thought by putting them together it would help that along with playing with the crossover settings, I realize my Peaveys although brand new are not Anywhere near top of the line but they seem to do well for the small to medium venues we play, as I said I am trying to get the most out of what I have, I am also going to take gadgets suggestion and when I have the money, trade in my 15 inch mains and get 12s to further help tighten things up or maybe keep the 15s and add the 12s?? My god there is so much to sound and setup's that it really overwhelms me at times, there is never an easy answer! Thanks for all the Input guys! Since reading here my band already sounds much better! I added a Lexicon MX200 To the rack and wow that helps alot also ! sooner or later I will have that "holy grail" lol or maybe not..It certainly is a blast learning! Thanks again for the posts and those killer graphic displays dennis!

Bill

Dennis

If you must have a "general starting point", go with one mid/hi and one sub per side. As often as not, it won't be the correct coverage but most venues are at least designed for that configuration (architecturally but probably not acoustically). After seeing my screenshots, when you walk the room and hear cancellations, you will know what you are listening to. You will also have an idea of how much you might accomplish by moving the subs to the center. While two subs coupled at center stage show no cancellations, the coverage is very narrow. Those same two subs on either side of the stage have much wider coverage but with a pair of nasty cancellations. If those cancellations fall where no one is listening, your golden. If they fall in the middle of the listening area, then maybe it's time to bail on the "general starting point" and re-design.

Dennis

premier1

Thanks Dennis, I plan on getting to the gig early tonight to play around with positioning of the subs etc. Thanks again