turbosound PA setup

chrissydaboo

Hi,
I'm new to the forum but am hoping you can help me. I have an active PA system 2 turbosound TQ315DPs and TQ115DPs. I'm about to purchase another sub a turbosound tq425. this cab is not powered though. Can I use a driverack for this system collectively? ACtive and Passive boxes mixed
My main reasons are that the top boxes are way louder than the subs and I want a better balance to the system ( partly why I'm buying another box the 425 ) and the low shelf cut on the 315s is too severe leaving a hole in the sound if used.
I'd also like to Eq the tops a little to smooth off some of the sound.
I'm buying the driverack 2nd hand and as yet don't have info on the model. (will post as soon as I have it)
I use a little yamaha MG12/4fx desk and sing to tracks, play piano and sometimes have a 4 piece band for functions, corporate and the like.
thanks,
CHris.

Gadget

Welcome...

Can I use a driverack for this system collectively? ACtive and Passive boxes mixed

Most definately...the driverack has no idea whether the speakers are powered.. or passive, and it really makes no difference.. the only thing is, normally, you can't turn off the compressor on active speakers...

Even the PX which was specifically designed to be used on active speakers has full blown crossovers and bandpass filters...
gadget

chrissydaboo

great thanks. When I find out the model i'll post it for your info. I know that the boxes have a fair amount of dsp stuff going on, but I've this far struggled with their outputs comparatively. I think the usual rate is 1 top to 4 subs but that's tricky to get into a volvo estate.
As of this moment I'm totally new to all of this so I won't waste your time with more questions, but am grateful that there's a resource here to get the most out of a driverack and hopefully my PA system.
regards,
Chris

Gadget

Does Turbo sound provide tunings for those speakers?

Were happy to help in any way we can...

Gadget

chrissydaboo

Hi Gadget,
The driverack is a driverack PA about 12months old.
as far as tuning I'm guessing you mean frequency response-these are
tops (315dp) 50Hz-20KHz. SPL 130 cont/136 peak
subs (115dp) 47Hz-18oHz SPL 126 cont/132 peak
sub (unpowered 425) 45Hz-200Hz SPL 132cont/138 peak.

I'm looking to use the driverack in three scenarios.
1. to just EQ the tops as a full range box for small gigs.
2. to EQ and balance the tops to the single 15 subs on some bigger gigs
3. to to Eq and balance the tops to single subs and the 1 twin 15 ( possibly in the future buying another twin 15 if required) for the much bigger jobs Marquees and 300+ people.

these speakers have decent spls so I'm hoping that even though the tops are real loud the combined 4 15" drivers should be enough for most jobs once they are being optimised!
I have considered changed my PA completely to the RCF TT range which is much smoother but think that with some eq my turbos should actually do the job.

I'm assuming I wouldn't use the Low shelf cut on the back of the box but rather use the crossover point in the Dbx.

thanks,
Chris

Gadget

I'm looking to use the driverack in three scenarios.
1. to just EQ the tops as a full range box for small gigs.
2. to EQ and balance the tops to the single 15 subs on some bigger gigs
3. to to Eq and balance the tops to single subs and the 1 twin 15 ( possibly in the future buying another twin 15 if required) for the much bigger jobs Marquees and 300+ people.

Easily done actually..you could save 25 different presets actually...

The driverack DRPA can really help tame those but to get the full benefit you'll need a measurement mic...
Gadget

chrissydaboo

Hi gadget,
Is the mic needed expensive? I see behringer make a £40 version, any good?
Reading some stuff would you say there was a point in using the limiter on the dbx when they're built into the box?
Also would you take 2 different outs for the powered and non powered subs or would 1 be ok? Mono/stereo?
I heard some guy say that mono would give me more output?
Last question is bass coupling a real thing?
I know I said I wouldn't ask questions- sorry

Gadget

And why would you not ask questions? That IS why were here

So lets get started:

Is the mic needed expensive? I see behringer make a £40 version, any good?

I have one and it works fine.. is not as accurate on HF and LF signals as the Earthworks but no where near the price either...

would you say there was a point in using the limiter on the dbx when they're built into the box?

Nope...

Also would you take 2 different outs for the powered and non powered subs or would 1 be ok? Mono/stereo?

one is fine..

I heard some guy say that mono would give me more output?

If you have 2 subs.. and they are run mono, and you have them together you will get 3dB of free SPL... If you set them on the floor you will get an additional 3dB of free power, AND if you put them against the wall on the floor and 2 subs you will get 9 dB of free sound... but one sub... run mono over stereo will have NO additional gain.

Last question is bass coupling a real thing?

I have to wonder if your talking about what I wrote of above, or do you mean indoors...bass waves combining together and forming modes, and super bass waves...the answer to both is YES
G

chrissydaboo

Thanks for that! I may have the subs on different outs as the 425 box is passive and doesn't have built in limiters, but mono sounds the way to go!
I'll post more when I've had a chance to try the system!
How much is the earthworks mic out of interest?

Gadget

http://www.sweetwater.com/c105--Earthwo ... icrophones

Dr. J

Chrissy -- Check out this link here on the forum where Harry Brill talks about measurement mics: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1894

Harry doesn't come in until towards the end. Just trying to save you a few bucks.

chrissydaboo

thanks for the link I'll check it out.
To report on what I've managed to do so far:
Got new sub and ran the two tops with one twin 15 sub. managed to crudely set up a crossover point and added some gain to the sub as the tops are very loud. Sounds great!!
This without any proper eq work or the other extra single 15 subs. In short- I am now going to read all the articles you folks have recommended and get a guy to help who's more technical because after only scratching the surface I can see the driverack is going to make a huge difference.
Thanks,
Chris

Dra

Chris,
Be carefull. If you set up a gain structure wit the amps and THEN turned up the gain (I assume in the x-over section) then the structure is now no good. After setting the gain structure, you should have turned DOWN the tops since they were louder. Might not have been what you wanted to here, but it is important.

DRA

chrissydaboo

Right! Well in truth I had no clue and was going off a friends info! I'm running the sub with an 800 watt amp at 4 ohms in bridge mode and the sub will do that continuously and 1600 watts peak. However now that we've decided to buy the stuff I'm going to get into it properly. Thanks for the concern though!

Gadget

ight! Well in truth I had no clue and was going off a friends info! I'm running the sub with an 800 watt amp at 4 ohms in bridge mode and the sub will do that continuously and 1600 watts peak.

You need new friends... :roll:

You have that backwards... you should have 1600 watts for an 8 ohm speaker... your UNDER powered...be careful...you could blow the speakers if you clip the amp...
Gadget

chrissydaboo

Hi Gadget,
the bass speaker is a nominal impedance of 4 ohms, so I thought running the amp at 4 was the right thing to do, AND not having more than 800 watts I saw as a way of protecting the sub??? Do I need to buy another poweramp? The sound I got was brill but now I'm thinking I'd better get someone in to help who has more PA knowledge.

Chris :oops:

chrissydaboo

Just done a bit more research and think I'll need an amp that can do 1600watts at 4ohms. So will have to hunt that down.
Clipping seems a bad thing though I'd never really thought of that. With a more powerful amp I'm guessing I would set the amp to be at 60%ish?

Gadget

There's a couple of different ways to look at this. Will 800 watts do the job/ Maybe...does it get as loud as you will ever need it to without clipping? OR do you need all the potential the speaker can give? What will it take to keep up with the powered companion sub
speaker (can it?) I have found that to really get a speaker to "giddeup" you need some serious power... Crown specifies that a speaker has 3 milestone specifications...

RMS power handling (pink noise, which is all frequency sound, 24/7)
Program power (normal music said to contain 1/8th to 1/5th of the power the amp ...duty cycle...can produce...)
Peak power (instantaneous ... millisecond bursts only) here is where the term headroom resides...

The specks mean that in order to achieve the specified 138dB peaks...you would need
800 watts RMS
1600 watts continuous program
and
3200 watts peak...power

Clipping seems a bad thing though I'd never really thought of that. With a more powerful amp I'm guessing I would set the amp to be at 60%ish?

Clipping is a VERY bad thing...
http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/clipping/

as for the 69 % ish thing... I assume you mean amp attenuation? That would depend on the amps input sensitivity and the gain structure...

Gadget

chrissydaboo

Thanks gadget,
I'm looking into borrowing a carver amp that will do 3000 watts bridged until I buy something. The powered subs, admittedly not through the driverack, go nowhere near the level of this twin sub! That's why I asked about bass coupling etc. I think I need to have the sub working to optimum but not overdriven. As some gigs I may not Need the other subs!