Another peavey question....
jscott388
Posts: 11
I been a little confused. I did follow the gain structure as noted from the start here. However I am confused about the attenuators on peavey amps. Peavey says you can run the amp attenuators turned to the maxed. So do I run the attenuators turned all the way up or follow the directions on the start here section?
Here is a run down on what I did...
I turned DDT switch off, turned attenuators all the way down, unplug speaker cables, played pink noise until my sound reached Odb on the dj mixer (denon), turned the attenuators until I saw those red flashing lights, backed it down a few notches and left it at that. Speaking of the mixer, the channels don't have db markers so I just judged it at 3/4th of the way on the mixer. I used the gain on the channel I was playing pink noise through and turned it until it reach O db on the mixer meter. So am I on the right track here and do the DDT switch stay off or can I turn those back on? I am not even sure how to tell when peavey amps are clipping... cause I don't think DDT / Clipping are the same thing. My top speakers never get the DDT lights on.. but my subs do, they flicker but don't stay on.
I need to redo my pink noise cause I ran flat instead of using the C preset, looks like it gives more bass. This is a DJ system that is in a bar. So with the pink noise, how high should I turn it up? When I did it before I think I may of cranked up way too much. I set the compressor/limiter on the individual channels and not the entire mix. I find that I am at 8db to keep the amps from going crazy. Is that too much compression?
So speaking of amps and speaker... and yes I am under powered, but I have to go with what the owner has... 4 EV speakers, which I have no clue what model they are but they use "emince" speakers with a pv2600 amp and 2 sp118x (1000w) with a 2600 amp... I have been at this setting with the drive rack pa for 2 years now. No issues but I feel like I am not reaching its full operation.
As far as crossover, 45hz to 90, then top 90+. I forgot what slop it is at but it was a setting I seen posted on the forums from somewhere.
Here is a run down on what I did...
I turned DDT switch off, turned attenuators all the way down, unplug speaker cables, played pink noise until my sound reached Odb on the dj mixer (denon), turned the attenuators until I saw those red flashing lights, backed it down a few notches and left it at that. Speaking of the mixer, the channels don't have db markers so I just judged it at 3/4th of the way on the mixer. I used the gain on the channel I was playing pink noise through and turned it until it reach O db on the mixer meter. So am I on the right track here and do the DDT switch stay off or can I turn those back on? I am not even sure how to tell when peavey amps are clipping... cause I don't think DDT / Clipping are the same thing. My top speakers never get the DDT lights on.. but my subs do, they flicker but don't stay on.
I need to redo my pink noise cause I ran flat instead of using the C preset, looks like it gives more bass. This is a DJ system that is in a bar. So with the pink noise, how high should I turn it up? When I did it before I think I may of cranked up way too much. I set the compressor/limiter on the individual channels and not the entire mix. I find that I am at 8db to keep the amps from going crazy. Is that too much compression?
So speaking of amps and speaker... and yes I am under powered, but I have to go with what the owner has... 4 EV speakers, which I have no clue what model they are but they use "emince" speakers with a pv2600 amp and 2 sp118x (1000w) with a 2600 amp... I have been at this setting with the drive rack pa for 2 years now. No issues but I feel like I am not reaching its full operation.
As far as crossover, 45hz to 90, then top 90+. I forgot what slop it is at but it was a setting I seen posted on the forums from somewhere.
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Comments
Man that's confusing...
Your supposed to get the output of the mixer to the CLIPPING point NOT -0vu-
Yes, DDT and clipping are different things...
:roll: :roll: :roll: you can get more bass by TURNING UP THE sub amp ...but since your UNDER powered you will need to turn the tops DOWN instead...
You cannot turn it up too much.. it won't let you ... you'll get the message "Turn down" if your too louid..
ANY additional compression used with HEAVILY compressed music is too much
If your under powered...set the crossover higher... like 100-118hz LR24.
G
From peavey on the pv2600
Maximum input gain is achieved at the fully clockwise setting (+32 dB, 40 X), and this setting yields maximum mixer/system headroom. A setting of less than fully clockwise will yield lower system noise at the expense of mixer/system headroom. (so more headroom at full clockwise setting?)
So turned all the way up or adjust my levels till I see clipping on the amps, but again, are those red lights DDT lights or clipping lights? Peavey is so weird as I assume those are DDT compression lights and there are no clipping lights. Again I could be misunderstanding what that statement means with the peavey.
As far as compressor goes, I am not using it. I meant to stay limiter. I have threshold at 8db, Overeasy at 5, So am I limiting the system too much? I have it set to that point cause I get a nice smooth sound from it. I don't get a huge growl. I like a nice clean thud / boom, although I know I am not going to get the best results being underpowered. I can't stand that huge growling and no I am not using sub harmonic synth as I fear being underpowered is asking for trouble.
My gain is set at 2 for lows, 45hz-100hz, the rest goes to top cabs which the gain is set to 0 since I do have 4 cabs I am using the crossover settings what you stated before. I was running at 35hz, bumped it to 40 then 45 after I read more topics.
Subs are place about 3 feet from walls, and about 15-20 feet from each other. They aren't pointing inward. The top cabs are facing toward the center of dance floor and place in each corner of the dance floor in the ceiling.
Thanks for help!
I have read the material that you posted a billion times but I am more of a visual guy than trying to read it and picture it. So if it annoys you, sorry! Sometimes I need people just to reword it a bit so it comes a clearer picture.
DRA
the most effective, automatic, hands-off approach to the problem of power amplifier clipping.
Since PV series power amplifiers use a circuit breaker for overcurrent protection, the DDT
compression system plays an even more important role in continuous performance by preventing each channel from clipping and overload. Continuous operation at clipping can cause the circuit breaker to trip, but with the DDT activated, this problem is minimized. For this reason, the DDT compression system should always be enabled.
So my best option would to go ask peavey about this.
Thanks for you help anyhow!
I often do crank sub amps so in your case, there is no problem doing that...especially when Peavey suggests it...
Other manufacturers (for various reasons) offer a possibly more flexible range of outputs, that can be driven by a variety of input voltages.. it seems Peavey has optimized the amps for +4 operation with pro level mixers and gear...
Hard to say... is the gain reduction going crazy? One way to find out is to reduce the amount of limiting and see how much your squashing the sound...get it to off, then bring it down till it's just starting to show on the gain reduction meter...
You really should read about how limiting can KILL your speakers though... I would recommend that you use the gain structure to determine when clipping occurs and let THAT be your limiting.. let the DDT be the protection.
3 - 3 1/2 feet... BAD juju... read this...
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... lation.pdf
As for the placement of the speakers... that would provide a nightmare of comb filtering and cancellations.. I don't want to even think about it :roll:
I'm not annoyed...
The gain structure document is written for those that are newbie to novice... it is an over simplification of the process and if it raises questions that is good... but questioning the practice without considerable grounds is ...well not recommended.
You will find that in this business.. the more you learn... the less you know...and the majority of those that disseminate the info... shouldn't.
Gadget
Here is what I did. I am using part of the guide just as check list.
1. Turn amplifier(s) attenuators all of the way down to zero (fully counter clockwise), disable amplifier(s) and disconnect the speaker cables.
2. DriveRack dynamic processors like GEQ, Compressor, limiters, PEQ, AFS, SubSynth, etc., are disabled.
3. Play pink noise through one of input channels of the mixer. Now I use serato scratch live. I just loaded it up. played pink noise. I got the pink noise from the download link.
4. Set the mixer input channel fader (with pink noise) to 3/4th cause I have no 0db markers on the mixer. The gain rotator knob was turned down.
5. Turn up the mixer input channel gain trim pot (with pink noise) until the meter bounces in the yellow at least 6dB below clipping. Which I did.
6. Slide your mixer's master fader(s) up until meter is just barely (occasionally) bounces in the red at clipping. Also did but I am looking at the dj mixer... should I been looking at the driverack meters?
7. DRPA you have a button on the back that sets the input sensitivity to +4db (pro level). Which its set. The signal look good.
8. Make sure all speakers are DISCONNECTED FROM THE AMPS..(unplug speakers as proscribed in step #1).. Turn up the amplifier gain trim pot (clockwise) until the amplifiers red clip light barely bounces on. Now this is the DDT light that I was looking at. Both amps where set about 60%. Just little pass half way.
9. Turn back the amplifier gain trim pot (counter clockwise) about 3dB to 4dB from the clip position. Mark this position. I did this step. I just turned it back a few notches. The amps are now set at about 50%... So this is the major confusion I am having. If the peavey amps are to be set at full clockwise, how am I to set the gain on the amps? Or am I supposed to adjust the gain in the crossover setting for this.
10. Repeat steps for all amplifier(s) channels driven by the DriveRack.
More about #9... I have before, and this prolly wasn't a bright idea, with a song playing but at a lower volume than normal, I cranked the amp levels to full clockwise. The sound was very very growly and didn't sound so good.
So somewhere I am getting lost on getting the gains on where they should be. Am I making any sense or am I completely lost.
What were trying to do here is get all the equipment talking the same language ... voltage wise...so with that in mind... we get the mixer to clip ... now we KNOW FOR SURE that that is clipping... (now we'll leave driverack as it is as long as it's not clipping input or outputs) now we turn up the amps till they just clip......back off the volume controls till the amps are no longer clipping... and a little more for headroom...now we KNOW the mixer is clipping...the the driverack is not... and the amps are not... so we have a visual right in front of us that the mixer is clipping...we know that the other stuff is not...
We do NOT care if the amps are not CRANKED... because they will clip at this point regardless... the more efficient the speakers are the louder they will get... but THIS is where the amps will clip and we can't get any more out of them... without damaging the speakers...
does that make sense?
G
Like I said, the peavey amps throw me off with this DDT light. I really don't know if that DDT light is telling me its compressing or clipping. Then on top of that people on the peavey forums stating you get more headroom with amps to full clockwise.
So I am just going to assume i have the gain set correctly. I am going to leave them at 50%. I been this way for 2 years and it hasn't given me blown speakers or amps and system is running 20 hours a week at least.
Everything about this system throws me off.
You give me a newer system with correct amps like crown, with the speakers having correct power handling I wouldn't be thrown off so much and could manage to have the system setup correctly. Just this DDT thing is confusing as hell cause I don't know if the amp is clipping.
You should do a video on some of these step by step guides on here. Maybe that will paint the picture for a lot of people.
Peavey is the same as any other mid grade speaker BETTER then much of the JBL line (up to the SRX series .. in my opinion) the amps are just as good as the Crown and QSC amps... there isn't a thimble full of difference in the old cast iron (transformer amps) (not the new digital power supply amps..but still better than some!) In fact those old iron horses were nearly indestructible!
So get over this idea that peavey is any different than any other older technology offering (till you get to the good stuff and that costs BUCKS!!)
I have a couple SP2's and a couple 218's loaded with Peavey Lo riders and they ROCK! the SP's are only really good when processed properly and bi-amplified.. but they do get really LOUD!
G