Newbir setting up sound

DJ Crump

Okay Gadget, be easy with me!

I am a mobile DJ and have the following equipment.

2 - JBLMRX 525's with a XTI 4000
2 - JBLMRX 528's with a XTI 6000
1 - DRPA

After running the wizard and eq wizard the tops sound very clear but my subs are not hitting hard at all, so I ran the wizard again and this time I selected the "DJ" setting rather than the flatten setting and they started to come alive. I still feel like I am not getting the bass that I know these subs can put out.

A couple of other things, one is that the subharmonic is off (mainly because I have no idea what it is)
Comp / Limiter - I did not touch because I have no idea what this is for either.

I have been a dj for a long time (for someone else) and now that I purchased my own equipment I am branching off on my own, and have much respect for the sound guy I use to work with!

DJ Crump

Thanks for all the help...

Dennis

DJ Crump wrote:

Thanks for all the help...

Yeah, sometimes these posts fall through the cracks.
I am not personally familiar with your speakers/amps but I just spent half an hour going over the specs. On your DRPA there is a button for the crossover function. Select that and then scroll through the settings. There is a gain level associated with each output...in your case I assume there is just high out and low out. What are the gain settings for these two stereo outputs? (The gains are linked for right and left). What is the crossover point between 525s and 528s?

Do you go into lots of different venues with this system or just one or two? How do you configure the speakers in the room?

Dennis

Gadget

Wow I typed a long reply... sometimes they get lost here though...sorry.

What Dennis is getting at is you chose an eq preset with added LF eq... you might just need top turn the sub amp up a bit and work with the PEQ's a bit.

I take it your a DJ?

Remember that bass takes a LOT more power than the rest of the audio. I generally add gain to the subs... the XTi 6000 has more power then the 4000 but you might still need to bump up the sub xover gain to get the low end your looking for.

Gadget

DJ Crump

okay, I did a few Christmas parties and thank god it was a small venue. I still am not getting the subs to hit, the tops are over powering the subs. Listed below are the settings I am running.

XTI - 4000 57% gain The display says DSP OFF and the "custom" icon is lit.
XTI - 6000 75% gain The display says DSP OFF and the "preset" icon is lit.

DRPA - Went through all the wizard settings 525 tops and 528 subs
DRPA - Went through the eq wizard and instead of "flat" I tried the "dj" setting and also tried the "venue" setting. The gain part on the eq is set at zero.
Everything else has been left alone at the factory or wizard settings.

The only other information that may help is when it ask you to turn up to tune I turn it up until it just gets past an acceptable level with the pink noise. Should I go higher with the pink noise or just when it changes to acceptable?

Dra

Doing a little math, you can achieve 130db (@ 1m) with 1000w, which is just below your max power, with your top cabs. You can achieve 130db (@ 1m) with 2000w, which is just below your max power, with your subs. Without counter-balancing the outputs you can't achieve a full, bottom-heavy output.
Gadget or Dennis may give you other numbers, but I would say that a differential of at least 6db, in favor of the subs, is needed for that.
With all amps at their max, non clipping points you can't achieve that with the cabs and #'s of cabs that you have. Even if you added another XTI6000 and bridged into each sub, you only get a +4db (about) differential.
Sounds like your only immediate solution is to turn down theXTI4000 even more.

From the outside looking in,
DRA

Dennis

Dra wrote:

but I would say that a differential of at least 6db, in favor of the subs, is needed for that.

That sounds correct to me....even 10dB would not be unusual.

Dennis

DJ Crump

Okay, so I turn the gains down on the xti 4k, and get by, I agree that this is a solution to get by.

I have heard these exact sub with the same amp and it is just night and day compared to mine. I saw in the DRPA in the eq settings that you can change the gain on the HML, is this an option to go from zero to 6db on the subs to boost? I know these subs can perform better than they are and I also know that my settings (somewhere) are the culprit. Just frustrating trying to figure out the digital stuff when all I am familiar with are the old crossover knobs to deal with. I really do appreciate all the info I have gained from here.

Also once I have set the gains (on the subs to 6db boost, if this is a good idea) will the DRPA save those settings?

DJ Crump

I realize that you guys can give me more accurate information if I supply you with more info than I have so I went and plugged in the rack and this is exactly what the DRPA settings are as I went through the navigation screens.

I selected the eq

H
PEQ-OFF
FLATTEN
H Shelf

F1-118 Hz
G-0.0dB
Q-0.26

L
PEQ-OFF
FLATTEN
H Shelf

GEQ-ON FLATTEN

Xover

H
100 Hz LR 24 5.2dB

L
35.5 Hz LR24 -5.2dB (this is what I hope is the culprit a negative dB)
125 Hz LR24

Sub Harmonic Synth-OFF
Subharmonics 50%
24-36 Hz level 25%
36-56 Hz level 50%

Comp/Limiter

H
Lim-ON OverEasy 4
Threshold 18dB

L
Same as above (H)

LR

Compressor-OFF
Overeasy-OFF
threshold-20dB
1.0:1 Gain 0.0dB


AMPS
XTI 4000 - gain knob set at 57%
XTI 6000 - gain knob set at 75%

I have a few more Christmas parties to do in small venues so I can get by but on the 17th of Dec I have a large hall and I am hoping you guys can give me a little advise on these settings before the large hall party starts.

Not that it matters (I don't think) but I am running Virtual DJ6 pro software and using an Audio 4 DJ external sound card.

Dra

+5db on the highs
-5db on the lows

That a 10 db cut to the lows right there.

DRA

Dennis

Most of the stuff in your DR is not engaged right now....make sure your GEQ is flat. Just for s**ts and giggles lets do an experiment. Leave your high xo at 100Hz, change the level to 0. Change your low xo to 100Hz and change the level to +6. For the sake of this experiment, set both of your amplifier settings wide open. Test your system and see if you are any closer to where you want to be.

Dennis

Gadget

Also once I have set the gains (on the subs to 6db boost, if this is a good idea) will the DRPA save those settings?

In case the "tech speak" isn't understandable...yes add gain in the crossover, even as much as 10dB... to have that stored though...you will need to press the store button 3 times ...

1. Name the preset...for easy identification
2. pick a location (preset #)
3. Are you sure you want to overwrite the preset in that location?

The MRX boxes are power hungry and (I don't care what the marketing hype says) about 5-8 dB down @ 40 hz... So you might also want to set up a PEq or 2 to tailor the sound of the subs. Make sure to set a very steep HPF for the subs though BW18/24/48

You can also gain 3dB of free power by placing them side by side, sitting on the floor and against the wall...By having the subs in one location you will also have no comb filtering to deal with and even bass coverage over the whole room.

Gadget

DJ Crump

Sweet, I will try it out tonight and let you know.

Hey, one more thing, so I don't bother you guys with petty questions where can I go to learn about the lingo? I am not sure about what kind of setting I can do with a Peq or if factory settings are acceptable, also the sub harmonics, comp/Limiter ect. I do not have set and would really like to read a bit more so I can keep up with the "tech talk". Many many thanks to you guys for all the input!

Gadget

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2248
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2242
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1681
ftp://ftp.dbxpro.com/pub/PDFs/WhitePape ... %20101.pdf
Much more in the FAQ section
There is a study hall here:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall

Google keyword searches elicit MUCH info...

G