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Vocals not cutting it?

premier1premier1 Posts: 119
edited February 2011 in PA General Discussion
Why the heck wont the vocals cut in the mix, every venue I play at a few people come up and say " we cant hear your singer well" Her chanell is jacked ! the gain is up and the lights are just below clipping so the power is there? She isnt the most seasoned singer as of yet when it comes to mic techniqe etc but still I feel the power is there? when our bass player sings his one and only song everyone hears him fine? Im stumped...same mics for both by the way sm58s. We elimited the floor wedges also and all of us went in ear as to get rid of the feedback issues with the monitors, Im just looking for any tips, things to look for etc that I may be missing, would a compressor help on her chanell insert, anything in the DR that can help? an outboard pre-amp? Tossing it out there hopefully I can get some tips ! Thanks

BTW..We just did a demo ourselves , everything went though the DR first, then out the mixer into the recorder, she can be heard fine here lol..CK it out here, im not happy with the Kick other than that its ok. http://brokenhalori.bandzoogle.com/fr_home.cfm

Comments

  • DennisDennis Posts: 801
    From what you describe, it sounds like a weak vocal. That's not unusual. If you have spare groups left over, route the vocal through them. With all group levels set at unity, you will gain 3dB with each group you route a channel through.

    Dennis
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Was she better when there were monitors? Sometimes in ears can hurt performance because the singer can hear themselves too well... they tend to back off...

    You could try building your mix around her vocal... meaning get her vocal up and present and then build the mix around her.

    Do you always run her voice dry like that? Sounds very sterile. IA nice slapback and verb can really accentuate a vocal.

    As Dennis said, use a sub master or 2 as a vocal "Gas" channel also

    Try and get her to push it a bit more, her vocals tail off at the end of most of her words.

    Also if your console has a sweepable mid, raise the gain 4-5 dB and sweep through the band till you find her strong point then use the gain setting to dial it in properly.


    G
  • premier1premier1 Posts: 119
    Some of this is certainly due to her techniqe and we have metione many times that the PA will not do it all, We have taken everything out of the mix now exept the kick drum ! I never thought of the subgroup thing, great idea and I cant wait to try it ! but this is getting ridiculas especially when you have people coming up and saying they cant hear her, and I do have a sweepable mid and will try that also. Thanks for the advice guys ! will keep you posted as to how it works out....As for the Monitors it was a constant struggle, constant getting them loud enough etc and then feedback nightmares , the venues we play were to tight for it to all work for us, So i decided to get rid of them and used that Money for the in ear system, I have to say I love it I have never heard things so clearly before ! Amie did sing a bit louder with floor monitors and we were concerned that she can hear herself so well now that things would even get worse lol and they have ! she's to comfy now, what she did was take one out and leave one in but thats not a good idea from what Im told, it will have to be ballenced out somehow. However I have to say it was one of the best investments I ever made ! The sound is amazing and my ears dont ring at all at the end of the night, Im loving it! How do I use TWO subgroups for the vocal? I have 4 and on ly use one for the drums so I have 3 free

    One other thing, on effects...She seems to hate them and I dont know why, always she makes me turn them down a liitle reverb is a good thing with delay but for some reason while im playing the drums and cant do anything , she walks over to the board and turns the effects aux down !! Singers lol...there tough...She is good however and a great stage presence so hopefully her skills will come in time , after all a band without hearing the lead singer good is worthless live
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    To assign a channel to the Aux simply press the assign sub button on that channel strip.. on most mixers, but I don't see ANY auxes on that mixer (at least not the ZED R16...Is that the right mixer?

    Tell her you'll break her fingers :mrgreen: if she doesn't leave the darn thing alone! She NEEDS some help and the efx will help her vocals...
    G
  • premier1premier1 Posts: 119
    we using a different mixer live Gadget , sorry about that ! I have 4 subgroups on it, I know about the buttons and assignments just didnt know you could do both..but I tried it last night and your right, I can! It was definatly a noticible difference in volume ! But now my question is ..why? why does that bring the volume up? I thought it is controled by the master and that the subs were just to be able to lower the drum mix independantly of the master or whatever is in them? and I agree some people are about to get broken fingers, Its crazy..here is one for ya..Last friday night at the gig, Her Boyfriend decides he is going to take matters into his own hands and starts turning knobs on the powered mains !!! I was mortifyied after it took me forever to get a decent "gain structure" lol I was just beside myself watching totally helpless !! Im in the middle of playing so I cant do anything, after that we had a hum like you cant beleve..needless to say I made sure he knew never to do that again, Im not a sound guy and constantly learning but I do know enough not to just start turning knobs indiscriminately ! The answer is not always to just raise the volume fader.Well hopefully this advice along with a pep talk about putting more ommph into her performance will even things out. Thanks again Guys ! Bill
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    thNinja.gifNOBODY touches system! That's WAR when the inevitable boyfriend, girlfriend, husband/wife come up and start in on me I simply say, Well it's obvious your and expert, go out and buy a PA and some lights and then you can do whatever you want...till then it's ME show.

    The sub masters are put there as kind of a poor mans VCA.. that is to be able to group together and control any group of instruments/vocals ... like group 1 drums, group 2 instruments, group 3 vocals... I just label them GAS...and its the same principal as the mains.. and as Dennis said you get 3dB of potential gain...

    I'm doing a mixdown now of a live band I did this last weekend, and it has 2 female speakers (you would DIE to have these two!!!) and even as awesome as they are they sound FAR better with a couple of good, subtle efx... the biggest bands in the WORLD use effects... but that's not good enough for her? PLEASE :roll:

    G
  • premier1premier1 Posts: 119
    No she WILL use effects ..its absolutley needed and helpfull, im not sure what the aversion is exactly but its going to end ! thanks for the tips and advice as usual ! always helpfull ! Let you know how things go this coming weekend with the vocal issues! Bill
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