Initial Setup Concerns/Problems
ricko
Posts: 2
Inadvertantly sent this PM to Gadget ... then finally figured how to post ... so Gadget, this is repeat and would appreciate help from any corner of the group
Have had the DriveRack PA+ for a month or so now … have been reading everything I can on it in the manual and whitepapers … I have set my system up several times and gone thru several iteration trying to get a feel for it with varying degrees of success … finally had the opportunity to go live this weekend at our local Relay For Life Cancer Benefit and ended up with some questions:
System
Wharfendale(sp?) 16 channel mixer
DriveRack PA+
Crown CDi 1000 - highs
Crown CDi 1000 - mids
Peavey CS 400 - lows
2 Peavey 358S - 300 watt; 8 ohm - biamped
2 Peavey SP-1 - 300 watt; 8 ohm
(I also took a feed off the mixer to Peavey XR700C powered mixer to run the monitors)
I had previously set the Gain Structure using your white paper “The DriveRack Gain Structure and Setup Information�
Question 1: things were going good on the gain structure setup until I hit #9 and I went brain dead … could not figure out what the step was trying to get me to do … so I just checked to make sure the input and output leds were not clipping and went on …. I have totally missed where/how to open the Driveware GUI or even where it is … guidance would be appreciated
Question 2: at the benefit, used the Setup Wizard to get things started …
1. set the main speakers as Custom Biamped and the subs as Custom,
2. the high and mid amps as the Crown and the subs as Custom,
3. connected the RTA mic,
4. set the amp pots as directed,
5. the Wizard balanced the highs, mids and lows without correction
6. during the total system balance it stopped with the error message Autolevel not set (or some reasonable facsimile thereof) … I tried replacing the mic and aiming the speakers toward the mic with same error message
7. I worked around it and continued with the setup
8. I didn’t have this problem when I did my dry runs although my speakers were considerably closer together – probably 20 feet versus 40 at the benefit – during the dry run the mic was ~25 feet from the speakers and ~40 feet at the benefit (the manual said 25 feet but one of the white papers said to place the mic the same distance from the speakers as the speakers are separated) – bottom line question is could the mic placement have caused the message and, if not, where should I begin troubleshooting
Question 3: when I went through AFS, I used one mic to set levels, is that correct or am I supposed to put an array of mics that are going to be used on stage, set the channels to unity and use the Master fader?
Question 4: educational (as if the others aren’t) – say I want the x-over from lows to mids to be at 600 Hz, do I set the sub lo-pass above 600 and the mid hi-pass below 600 and then use the same logic for the mid lo-pass and high hi-pass OR do you set them the same … I did the first and assumed that the algorithms knew what to do at the actual x-over
Thanks
Have had the DriveRack PA+ for a month or so now … have been reading everything I can on it in the manual and whitepapers … I have set my system up several times and gone thru several iteration trying to get a feel for it with varying degrees of success … finally had the opportunity to go live this weekend at our local Relay For Life Cancer Benefit and ended up with some questions:
System
Wharfendale(sp?) 16 channel mixer
DriveRack PA+
Crown CDi 1000 - highs
Crown CDi 1000 - mids
Peavey CS 400 - lows
2 Peavey 358S - 300 watt; 8 ohm - biamped
2 Peavey SP-1 - 300 watt; 8 ohm
(I also took a feed off the mixer to Peavey XR700C powered mixer to run the monitors)
I had previously set the Gain Structure using your white paper “The DriveRack Gain Structure and Setup Information�
Question 1: things were going good on the gain structure setup until I hit #9 and I went brain dead … could not figure out what the step was trying to get me to do … so I just checked to make sure the input and output leds were not clipping and went on …. I have totally missed where/how to open the Driveware GUI or even where it is … guidance would be appreciated
Question 2: at the benefit, used the Setup Wizard to get things started …
1. set the main speakers as Custom Biamped and the subs as Custom,
2. the high and mid amps as the Crown and the subs as Custom,
3. connected the RTA mic,
4. set the amp pots as directed,
5. the Wizard balanced the highs, mids and lows without correction
6. during the total system balance it stopped with the error message Autolevel not set (or some reasonable facsimile thereof) … I tried replacing the mic and aiming the speakers toward the mic with same error message
7. I worked around it and continued with the setup
8. I didn’t have this problem when I did my dry runs although my speakers were considerably closer together – probably 20 feet versus 40 at the benefit – during the dry run the mic was ~25 feet from the speakers and ~40 feet at the benefit (the manual said 25 feet but one of the white papers said to place the mic the same distance from the speakers as the speakers are separated) – bottom line question is could the mic placement have caused the message and, if not, where should I begin troubleshooting
Question 3: when I went through AFS, I used one mic to set levels, is that correct or am I supposed to put an array of mics that are going to be used on stage, set the channels to unity and use the Master fader?
Question 4: educational (as if the others aren’t) – say I want the x-over from lows to mids to be at 600 Hz, do I set the sub lo-pass above 600 and the mid hi-pass below 600 and then use the same logic for the mid lo-pass and high hi-pass OR do you set them the same … I did the first and assumed that the algorithms knew what to do at the actual x-over
Thanks
0
Comments
Problem, you have listed 2 different tops...and NO subs...the 385s have little or NO info available and in order for help with these I will need that info...
Found this:
http://forums.peavey.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3969
looks like the 385's are a budget level 3 way with scorpion woofer, 8 inch mid and 4" horn super tweeter (whatever that means)
Looks to be OLD technology, bi-ampable with 1/4" jacks...
The SP-1's are a 2 way 15" BW with horn (I have some) but are NOT compatible with the 385's... now perhaps you mean SP118's?
Quote:
I had previously set the Gain Structure using your white paper “The DriveRack Gain Structure and Setup Information�
That is not my paper... the "Start here" thread is our (the USER forum) gain structure...
In Question 2:
Quote:
4. set the amp pots as directed,
I hope that is not the wizard function your talking about...as it takes LOT more into consideration...with the "start here" thread all you need to do is follow the directions and set the amp sensitivities as specified.
Quote:
5. the Wizard balanced the highs, mids and lows without correction
I have never found that to be the case... I don't like or use this feature...
Quote:
7. I worked around it and continued with the setup
Like I said...
Quote:
8. I didn’t have this problem when I did my dry runs although my speakers were considerably closer together – probably 20 feet versus 40 at the benefit – during the dry run the mic was ~25 feet from the speakers and ~40 feet at the benefit (the manual said 25 feet but one of the white papers said to place the mic the same distance from the speakers as the speakers are separated) – bottom line question is could the mic placement have caused the message and, if not, where should I begin troubleshooting
Man, that is SO wrong...obviously you and I are talking about a completely different document...I'm speaking about this one...
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=959
Where we VERY SPECIFICALLY state ONE speaker stack ONLY!and STRAIT OUT...(NEVER in between stacks!!! that's really bad...) Mic on the floor to help prevent additional reflections... what are you reading here?
Quote:
Question 3: when I went through AFS, I used one mic to set levels, is that correct or am I supposed to put an array of mics that are going to be used on stage, set the channels to unity and use the Master fader?
Again... where are you getting this stuff from?
our AFS setup is here:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1384
This pertains to Live sound mostly...
1. The system needs to be set up properly, Speakers tuned as flat as possible (with possible sweetening to taste) with a proper gain structure and if monitor wedges are used they need to be rung out and tuned as well...All mics need to be up and running and at the systems concert volume level ( pretty much what you will be using when the show is running) that includes all open mics, line/direct sources are excluded.
2. Typically the settings are
AFS ON
Live
Music High
Live filter lift ON (red)
6 Fixed filters (leaves 6 roaming)
Lift after 5 sec
differences are how fast (active) you want the filters to catch... music low/ speech... would affect how active the filters are which could have the AFS setting to remove instrument and vocal signals that are wanted)Also, if you set the hold time longer it can catch something like a guitar squeel and hold it and that ain't good...
3. With the above assumed, and the MASTER CHANNEL FADER/s DOWN ALL THE WAY, start pushing the faders up, we already have determined the point at which the system clips and with that in mind, continue the faders up SLOWLY till the first feedback occurs, and captures. (hopefully it is WELL above the normal system volume already)Continue with the slow fader climb as the next and next get caught..to a maximum of 6 filters or until you reach the max level we spoke of before ( I can typically only get a couple to hit till its STUPID loud, so if your properly tuned and set you shouldn't NEED the AFS).
4. Return the faders to normal level and ... on with the show!
here we specify:
Quote:
.All mics need to be up and running and at the systems concert volume level ( pretty much what you will be using when the show is running) that includes all open mics, line/direct sources are excluded.
Quote:
Question 4: educational (as if the others aren’t) – say I want the x-over from lows to mids to be at 600 Hz, do I set the sub lo-pass above 600 and the mid hi-pass below 600 and then use the same logic for the mid lo-pass and high hi-pass OR do you set them the same … I did the first and assumed that the algorithms knew what to do at the actual x-over
hmmmm... Man I don't get it? The crossover from the woofer in the 385's to the 8 inch/horn perhaps? but not the "sub low pass" (unless your considering the 15" in the 358's as a subwoofer?) sorry you don't have a subwoofer listed here...
Ok, so you know where I'm coming from... you have some questions to answer...
Gadget
I remember those days.....
These days they seem to ask and run... no way of telling how they are doing...
Hows things out east? I finally gave up on those POS Grund Audio subs at the casino and brought in a pair of my own. HUGE difference! Before, every time I tried to get ANY kind of kick definition at all I had to set the HPF on the channel to 75 hz! Otherwise all they did was DOH DOH...flabby sounding crap anyway! I'll never understand why they sell stamped basket 3" voice coil speakers as subs...barely a lo mid...
These are the culprits...
http://www.grundorf.com/index.php?Type= ... GT-LPB-24C
Be well my friend!
G
I am actually down here in Central Illinois G. You probably forgot.... It is hot a "H" out right now. Last week I had the heater on -- this week I have the air on. I am glad winter is over.
I am gearing up for some more measuring this year. Dave Gunness over at Fulcrum Acoustics gave me some really cool pointers that I have never considered before. Can't wait to try them out.
Talk to you later...
TTYL
G