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Setting Full Range For Mackie Powered SPKRS

MrMackiemanMrMackieman Posts: 9
edited June 2011 in PA Configuration Wizard
I have found the reading in this forum very informative and am grateful for its exsistence. I have read everything I can on crossover posts, yet I have yet to come across my scenario, so here goes. I am using the DRPA+ for EQ and AFS with great results through the Setup Wizard, yet it seems my overall sound is missing something. After reading several posts I am convinced that it is in the crossover section. I have been setting up Stereo, Dual Mono GEQ, 2 Mackie SRM 450's for FOH coming out the R out of High (daisy-chain speakers), 2 Behringer 212A's for Monitors coming out of L out of High (once again daisy-chain speakers). Finally, a Mackie SWA 1501 Mono Sub coming out of L/Mono of the Low out.This is as a 2X3.
It has been suggested that to make use of the internal crossovers in my Mackie speakers, that I setup as follows: R out of High to 1501 Sub Full Range Input, then out of Sub's High Pass (Mid/High Freq) L and R out to SRM 450's. For Monitors, L out of High to the 212A's. Can I then disable DRPA+ crossover, or do I still need to give settings? If so, can you please give me suggestions. Frequency Range of Sub is 45Hz - 120Hz, for 450's it's Low Transducer 45Hz - 3kHz, High Driver and Horn is 1kHz - 20 kHz. Is there a Full Range setting in the DRPA+? Thank you in advance for your time and sharing of knowledge.

Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    If I may...

    Since you have monitors, why not set up a 2x5? Also set up the EQ as stereo (not stero linked). Here's why....

    1st, the EQ - stereo allows you to have separate control of the mackies (tops and subs) and the monitors. The characteristics of these sets will be very different, and that will be covered in the next section (x-over), but he main issue here is the monitors will need a good bit of feedback work. You will need to determine how you want to use the AFS, because what is pulled in one will be pulled in the other since it is permanately linked L-R, and that could be undesirable. Maybe Gadget can offer some incite here.

    2nd, the 2x5. - To do this you will set up a bi-amp top with subs. Don't let that freek you out, you are just opening the HI (L&R), MID (L&R), and LOW (Summed to L, though I believe it is summed to R also). Since you have 3 PEQ's, 2 PEQ's, and 2 PEQ's for H, M, & L respectively, use them to your advantage. You will assign the Mackies to 2 outputs (let's say L) and the monitors to the other (let's say R). Which 2 (Hi /Mid, Hi/Low, or Mid/Low) for the Mackies is totally up to you. Just what ever work best in your head. Whichever one is left will be the monitor output (on the other channel of course). Base your decision also on where you want or need the 3 PEQ's. Also in the decision should be the need for a band pass (hi and lo pass filter) which is not offered on the Hi ouputs. Most like to squash the bandwidth of monitors to 70+hz to 12khz to focus on vocal content and reduce feedback. Therefore, the Hi outputs are not the best best choice for monitors. Mid or Low is best suited for this.

    3rd, the 2x5 (PEQ's) - You have probably read about the procedure to flatten your speakers (outside) with the Auto EQ and translating and transferring the data to the PEQ's for a baseline. You will want to do this for the FOH (1 top and 1 sub), then for a single monitor. Once this is done then the QEQ (L and R) will be tailoring and fighting room issues for FOH and feedback (really the same thing, sort of) for the monitors.

    That really wasn't your question, but the running both the tops and the monitors from the Hi's meant that you were stuck with a common x-over point. Using the onboard x-over in the speakers is an option, and the principles discussed here will still work, but you lose the ability to have more control of the house mix. For example, you would have to go to the speakers and adjust the volume of one or the other if you needed more lows (for example). If the PA+ is used and you need more lows, you and do it with the x-over gain. Plus you gain the 2 PEQ's for that output.

    Hope that helped.

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Hi,
    In all your reading did you ever find the FAQ section?
    viewforum.php?f=60

    In there we have complied a list of the most active topics, some articles on sound and mixing, and trips and techniques like this one:
    viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2228

    In this thread you will see that we can set up a tops/subs mono config with a single monitor feed...The cool thing doing it this way is that you have a GEQ and Auto eq to go with the tops/subs, and a separate GEQ and auto eq capability for a single monitor feed, and the PEQ for each output.

    Follow the links, and try the setups...with the SWA you shouldn't need to set an HPF as the sub has one built in.. in this case simply lower the HPF on the sub output below the subs published frequency response.

    The crossover section in the DRPA is FAR superior to the one in the SWA, and far more accurate and musical, May I suggest also that you run the mains out of the left side and the monitor out of the right, that way when you do your auto eq its Mains, then monitors...

    If your wondering about a "filter" instead of a xover you can do either with the mid or sub outs, the High outs don't have any LPF so they are strictly a filter with an HPF.

    You would do best to set the system up like this then
    Left input, and outputs...
    1. HPF for the sub @ 40hz BW18 (or lower.... again letting the sub set the HPF)
    2. LPF for the subs 120hz LR24 (left low out)
    3. HPF for the tops 120HZ LR24(left High out)
    Right input and outputs...
    4. HPF for the monitor...130hz BW18 (right mid out) you can set an LPF to if you like... at say 12k(or lower) LR6 to kind of roll off the high end to help with potential feedback, usually all that high end only results in tinnitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus) after prolonged exposure

    Gadget
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ah.. Dra.. I see your back! :mrgreen:
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    8)
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ya..It's all fun and games till someone losses their license to practice here... :wink::lol::lol:

    Welcome back old friend!
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    I've been lurking, but it's been really quiet on here.

    It been really crazy here in Alabama since the April 27 tornados. At least 3 different EF5's. Severe devistation 75 miles SSW of us (Tuscaloosa), 45 miles W (Cullman), about 70 mile NW (Phil Campbell), 25 miles SSE (Shoal Creek), 30 miles N (Guntersville) and 30 miles E (Ohatchee). You could see we were really blessed. We had insulation and shingles landing in our yard. We are told that it was from Tuscaloosa. We went to Shoal Creek and worked 4 days. Cutting up downed trees mostly and getting trees off houses. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzFq4bNqchw At :40 sec the camera will zoom in on the foundation of a house. There is a boat and a upside down SUV in the basement. The fire dept told us that there were 2 adults and 2 small children in the house. A week later they still hadn't found the children or one of the adults. They think they may be in the water. The one man that survived crawled out of the basement and the house was gone. They said he stood there for a bit and the SUV fell out of the sky right next to him. It was not his. We worked on the opposite side of the water, a couple of lots from the large upside down trailer, A-frame, etc
    Gadget, how close were you to the one that hit MN.
    Things are getting crazy. Mass and Misou too. End of days :shock: :?

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Well I tell you... I live in a very strange place...bad weather goes north, and south of us..Last year, there was a tornado just to the north.. and one tore UP the county just south of us... In the winter snow will CLOBBER the area all around us.. Hail and high winds all around.. but not us...

    I'm not saying we never get storms, it just happens WAY worse all around us! Last year we did an outdoor concert, and I KNEW that the providers would try and pull a fast one on us.. so I DEMANDED to see the electrical before I would sign off... demanded to see the stage...40 X 30(supposed to be covered) day before.. stage in place, but no cover.. It's coming in the morning...the band is arriving and no cover.. bad weather all around... the promoter shows up with a Coleman 8X10 SUN TENT :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

    3 miles on either side of the show the 50 + mile an hour wind...hail, copious rain terrible lightening, and a tornado to the north.. trees down, homes and things torn up... NOT A DROP of rain.. or even a really nasty breeze for the whole show or tear down :?: :?: :?: What in the heck is going on I have no idea...

    Those storms were a few hundred miles south of us...We are holding back a HUGE amount of water to help with flooding down south so things are also "flooded"here but they are "flood planes and backwaters" specifically designed for this purpose...

    Finally quit raining every day and actually hit 70 degrees once...YUCK..

    be careful...we are heading into a period of high solar activity which will stir up the jet streams when the ozone layer get hit hard by the solar wind... This will peak next year, and hopefully we don't get a 1,2,3 punch from the sun durring that period.. it could be BAD...

    Gadget
  • Dra, The tornados here in Alabama were real bad! I am about 20 mi. NW of Guntersville in New Hope. The tornados missed us and yet there is destruction right down the road, I pray for those victims. I appreciate you and Gadget taking time to post on my question. The info is very detailed and a dummy should understand...unfortunately, this dummy doesn't. I just seem to be having such trouble understanding how to navigate the crossover section and get my settings correct. Since it sounds like we are not to far apart I was wondering, do you ever do any in-person instruction? I truly want to learn to use my DRPA+ to it's fullest potential, and it is so frustrating to not be doing it. I would certainly be willing to compensate you for your time. Thank you again.
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    So you can't follow this setup?
    You would do best to set the system up like this then
    Left input, and outputs...
    1. HPF for the sub @ 40hz BW18 (or lower.... again letting the sub set the HPF)
    2. LPF for the subs 120hz LR24 (left low out)
    3. HPF for the tops 120HZ LR24(left High out)
    Right input and outputs...
    4. HPF for the monitor...130hz BW18 (right mid out) you can set an LPF to if you like... at say 12k(or lower) LR6 to kind of roll off the high end to help with potential feedback, usually all that high end only results in tinnitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus) after prolonged exposure
    ???
    G
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Mrmackieman,
    Wow! Small world.
    I've heard of New Hope, but never been there as far as I know. Probably seen it a lot during severe weather broadcasts on TV.
    I not opposed to helping you out in person, but let try to work this out here. Enters another factor.... Tuesday going to FL for a week.

    Lay out is detail what it is that you don't understand. Or... Do a step by step of what you you think you should do and we'll check it.

    DRA
  • OklaPonyOklaPony Posts: 48
    Wow, tornadoes and Driverack discussion, all in one thread!

    Brutal stuff this year with all the tornado activity, we had a pretty close call here in central OK just a couple of weeks ago. Before the last one lifted we were about a minute away from having to dive into our then one week old storm shelter. When the big one hit here in May of 99 they recorded the highest wind speeds ever for the entire planet at 320 plus. Never in my life had I seen such destruction, lots of friends and clients caught up in that mess.

    On the DRPA stuff here... Do y'all think it might be simpler for the OP to spend about $150.00 on a dbx eq (215 or 131) to use for the monitors, then run a stereo top / mono sub configuration for the mains?
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    You'll never get the monitors rung out and sounding anywhere NEAR as good with a GEQ...
    G
  • OklaPonyOklaPony Posts: 48
    Gadget wrote:
    You'll never get the monitors rung out and sounding anywhere NEAR as good with a GEQ...
    G
    No doubt, but that's not to say they wouldn't be usable. I was thinking more along the lines of it being a little more straight-forward config.
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    My problem with most of the "affordable" GEQ's is they hack up the sound too much, to actually causing feedback...The filters are crappy and they don't sound good. they cause phase issues, they dull the sound because of these filter circuits and generally degrade the sound simply by plugging them into the signal path.

    That's my $.02 worth...

    g
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