260 input configuration wizard questions.

BTproductions

Ok those of you who moderate this place and seem to do most all the answering know my situation by now and I'm fast running out of time so I don't have time to research these.

When using the GUI page one I'm not sure what all I should or should not select.

EQ gives me GEQ and PEQ. Obviously I want the GEQ wizard so pick it.

Effect 1 and 2 I can see a use for AGC possibly and subharmonic synth. Though I might not use either right away so should I select now what I might use or can I add it later somehow? I didn't see a way to yet.

Does it sound like I'm on the right track or are the other effects better choices?

Thanks -Mark

Dra

The main thing to note is that these will all be whole system effects.
Gate - Maybe in a vocal (speech) only application.
Compressor - Maybe in a vocal (speech) only application. Particularly if you have a screaming preacher or comedian. If used for music, use a minimalist approach.
Wire - No effect inserted.
Sub harm - I shortened it on purpose. I bet you won't need it any way. I have heard of them being used for beefing up an acoustic guitar's sound (on a "a guy and his guitar" set-up).
AFS - Most used insert (for a reason).
Notch filter - On occasion I will use the data given by the AFS and transfer very narrow filters to the Notch filter (widest setting). Freeing up AFS if needed for the most demanding situations (really bad room, where volume trumps sound quality).
AGC - Can be used similar to the Gate insert, but also limits the top side. I have attemped to use for back ground music, but if the music is very dynamic it doesn't sound normal. It would be a better tool if the reaction time was a lot slower and would ramp up or down over a 5 - 10 sec period, also a longer hold time.

DRA

Gadget

I often use the AFS and Notch filter as well, and that can be added later... you haven't even scratched the surface of what the 260 can do, that feature is available in the [config] mode.

As for the settings from EAW... you'll just have to get as close as you can using what the 260 has available. It's a good example of manufacturers having more time and tools to get the tunings right, and a good example of how difficult it would be to do 3 way speakers in general and in this case multi element speakers...

Some MFG's are moving towards locked systems for that very reason...where you buy the system pre tuned and you can only apply an external GEQ... and the processor and all the tunings are provided and locked...otherwise you may well do more harm than good by "rolling your own" setups...

you will ultimately have to decide if running fullrange sounds better than bi-amping using a processor that cannot hit the exact settings specified...which not even the 4800 can do...

I also wonder what in the world ANY speaker would need -20dB cuts for? Just seems crazy...

You get the amps yet?

G

Dennis

Gadget wrote:

I also wonder what in the world ANY speaker would need -20dB cuts for? Just seems crazy...

The 20dB cut is on the low passband which has a LPF of 433Hz BUT the cut is at 545Hz. Something substantial was rearing it's head above the LPF and EAW annihilated it

Gadget

Something substantial was rearing it's head above the LPF and EAW annihilated it

No doubt!

Hey Dennis! What's shakin? What do you think? Is he going to be able to get close enough with what the 260 can do? Or is he going to be better off using them fullrange?
G

Dennis

Going full range is never better! I think a 12dB cut at 545Hz will be more than adequate

BTproductions

Gadget wrote:

You haven't even scratched the surface of what the 260 can do G

I know! This thing is amazing! I better stay focused on the basics for now. AFS I don't see a need for we don't use a mic ever.

What about the last two questions in my other post about PEQ1 and I forget the other but I need these set to do my gain structures correctly right?

Thanks -Mark

BTproductions

Another thing. When running the wizard should I just set all my amps to custom to eliminate the sensitivity setting? I read on here to just forget that and adjust the amps gains knobs only instead. Does selecting your amp do anything else in the driveracks settings?

Last one for now. After I'm all done with limiters and everything do I switch the clip protection back on on the QSC's?

Speedy replies greatly appreciated I hope to get through everything tonight except for setting the limiters that will have to wait untill I can set it all up and gain balance my amps with music at volume once I'm there.

Thanks for all the help guys I couldn't have done it otherwise! I've learned soo much!

-Mark

Gadget

Ok,

If your going to do the gain structure like we suggest in the the START HERE thread then no there is no need do anything with the amps in the wizard...simply set them to custom, and no the wizard doesn't do anything but SUGGEST a gain setting.

Set the HPF/LPF of the subs/tops to 100hz BW24 for both the sub and the tops

Set the HPF of the subs to the 3dB down point @BW24

Do not use the 1st PEQ for the LA325...the lf below 100 hz will be handled by the subs...

If you have limiters on the amps engaged you will loose about 30% of the output power on those amps...use the limiters on the Driverack instead.

You will want to have all PEQ's and crossovers AND gain structure done before any auto EQ process...

Use the settings provided by EAW and just get as close as you can to the recommendations.

Does that cover it?
Gadget

Gadget

I recommend you set up some filters for indoor audio...

On the sub band, One @ about 60hz, bell, with a Q of about 5-6... this will help with the BOOMY bass

One @ about 100 hz Q of about 4.5 -5 (bell) for the natural bump in efficiency between 100 and 120 hz...

you may also find you need one about 160 hz, 250hz 500hz .. for room modes (common ones)

Make sure you don't sacrifice any of the prescribed PEQ's for these...

G

BTproductions

Awesome! If I'm missing something at this point I probably don't need it! BTW I called EAW ASG just to see if they reccomended anything different about that -20db PEQ and they said the same thing just make it -12. Also said that they don't like the EQ wizard and that I'd be better off with a processor and an EQ and just tune by ear. I'm not sure if their processor does any of the other things like limiters ect which I need so it's not totally the EQ wizard that makes me like this unit it's everything but I'm wondering if I might in the future benefit from a MX8750 and keep the 260 for it's GEQ? Ahh Money!!!

Thanks -Mark

BTproductions

Gadget wrote:

Set the HPF of the subs to the 3dB down point @BW24

You mean 30hz? EAW calls for a BW12 @30hz.

Here's how I'm setting it right now.

MF/HF:
gain 2.8
HPF 176.8Hz @BW24
LPF 15.545Hz @BW24

LF
gain -1.0
HPF 93.6Hz @BW24
LPF 420.4Hz @BW23

Sub
gain 0.0
HPF 33.1Hz @BW12
LPF 91Hz @BW24

or I could do the LF/Sub crossover @ LF-102.1 / Sub-96.4?

Thanks -Mark

Gadget

I believe that EAW states BW24 for the HPF... BW 12 isn't NEAR steep enough to protect that woofer at that low a frequency...

I JUST went there again and the spec sheet specifies:

32Hz 24dB/octave filter... I suggest BW...for it's steep rolloff... and that seems like a VERY low number given the 10dB down number of 40 hz...

Perhaps Dennis will weigh in on this issue... and why the slope is FAR below the 10dB down point...I suspect that it has something to do with the ability of the woofer in the cabinet... and what the excrusion factor limits out at. But... the fact remains that EAW stands behind that number...and with the amp you have you should be able to achieve the optimum performance from these subs.

Look, NOBODY that is a professional... and not a dbx aficionado will give the auto EQ a second glance, the fact is, when implemented properly, if you are NOT especially gifted, or educated in system tuning and equalization... you CAN get excellent results if you follow the rules... results that I challenge you to match using only your ears...Yes a seasoned veteran with years of practice and training might be able to achieve a likewise good sounding system... and of course those that use SMAART or some other FFT based measurement system to tune the system WILL do a better job, but hey, if your new to this stuff.. it can make a HUGE difference... one you cannot even hope to approximate without experience!

READ the start here thread and ALL the Auto Eq threads in the FAQ section to get a feel for the things you CAN and cannot do/expect from the auto eq...DON'T expect miracles and view every cut and boost with skepticism...some may be unnecessary or extreme...others will be right on.. but the thing is, the gain before feedback almost always be better, and the system will sound better.. if properly eq'd ...

all for now.. ask away if your still in the mood..
G

Gadget

As for your settings above... what are you basing the GAIN settings on?

I would suggest you try the different settings and see which is best... we already know that in the tops they overlap a LOT , and in some cases a spread can help as well.. YOU have the speakers.. you need to do the work..

G

BTproductions

Where are you finding those numbers for the 400's? I'm going off the sub specs sheet PDF from EAW. The gains in the crossover I set according to the 325's DSP specs PDF. Is that incorrect? I know I should be playing around with the settings more and not asking specific questions so much but I have nowhere to setup at and with work full time and all the other things I have to plan it's quite overwhelming. My break is over time to get off my phone.

Thanks -mark

Dra

Mid/Hi +2.8
Low -1
Sub -0-

Assuming same amps on all...+2.8... power loss in the passive x-over????
Still seems odd.
DRA

Gadget

http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker ... S_rev1.pdf

And as you say.. the sub spec sheet on EAW's site

1st column, at the bottom of page one on the left

Recommended High Pass Filter
24dB/Octave 32

Which means.. 32 hz BW24 HPF

It's fine to use the gain settings for the 260.. you'll still need to do a gain structure and balance setup though...the only thing it will do is change where the amp settings end up...so, you could leave the gains @ -0- and just let the amps settings do the work...

Gadget

Dennis

I have Processor Setting pdf's printed out for LA325 (2001) and LA400 (2003) that agree with the gain and slope numbers that Mark has posted. The gain numbers would be correct only if Mark was using the exact same amps that EAW tested with. The 12dB/oct HPF for the sub is just wrong.

Mctwins

Gadget...

How do you know that it is BW?
Can't it be LR?

Just courious..

Dennis

Something to do with BW being 3dB down at the cutoff frequency and LR being 6dB down at the cutoff frequency. The resulting shape of the slope at 3 dB down creates a more abrupt cutoff....more suitable for the job at hand.

Gadget

As Dennis said...now if we look at a broad spectrum of the manufacturers recommendations you will generally see a BW 18 or BW 24 specified for it's ability to protect the woofer from over excrusion. And with a steep slope like that you can see that you are offered more protection.

As Dra said, the gain settings offered by the manufacturers generally "assume" the same amps for lows and mid hi's, the settings in the wizard are supposedly taking into consideration the amps used, so.. if the amps are of different wattage and sensitivity those figures are taken into consideration in the suggestions for the gain settings.

These topics are covered in the FAQ section...as well..

G

BTproductions

http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Processor_S ... ttings.pdf

That's one of the .pdf's with that bw12db slope. The other one has the same settings except without the variable LPF. It's just 100 and bw24.

Good to know about the gain settings in the crossover! My amps gains were way far apart and close to their limits!

I'm gonna set the HPF on the sub at 35hz with a BW24db just to be extra carefull this weekend!

Thanks -Mark

Gadget

XTRA careful would be 40hz... bw 24...you can ALWAYS lower it if you have no issues and your NOT happy with the low end I figure that won't be an issue...

Just sayin...

Gadget