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DBX 2031 Connection

hfc7713hfc7713 Posts: 24
edited December 2011 in PA Connectivity
I have a question for anyone who wants to run some ideas by me. I run my PA in mono and the desk (Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO) has a mono output mix which is handy. I have a DBX 2031 graphic which is mono and in order to use it via insert, I have been connecting to the left insert only as I only have main insert left and right on the desk. This works well if I pan everything to the left. However, if I want to sub mix, I need to be able to pan the channels left and right which of course I cannot do right now. I had spoken to a Mackie tech about using splitter connectors in the back of the graphic so I can use left and right inserts on the desk. However, she told me this could overload the graphic. Without having to resort to putting the graphic between the desk and the crossover OR swapping the graphic for a stereo version - because I already own this one, does anyone have any ideas how I can keep the pans at noon ????? Thanks

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    GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ok, well a bit more info might be in order?
    However, if I want to sub mix, I need to be able to pan the channels left and right which of course I cannot do right now.
    but what about the mono out?
    what about main mixer out>EQ>Amp/speakers...(no need to insert)
    just not quite sure what your trying to do?
    Gadget
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    Sorry if I did not make myself clear.......I had mentioned that I would prefer not to place the eq between the mixer and amp ONLY because the signal is then boosted AFTER the output meter levels on the desk. I have always done it this way and was just trying to do the same. If my only option is to use mixer main into eq then so be it. However, If there is an alternative, I figured someone out there would know. I was going to use splitters as I mentioned until I was told it may overload the eq coming from left and right into 1 channel input. I suppose I really need to know if that is true because using the splitters works and gives me my accurate output levels.
    The panning comment was regarding the sub-grouping available on the desk. It is a Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO. Subgroups are limited to channel 1-2 and 3-4. So I would normally pan 1 to left, 2 to right, 3 to left and 4 to right. SO if I have all my pans to the left using the left insert only, I would only be able to subgroup channels 1 and 3. This might be enough...just didn't want to reduce my options. Should have purchased a stereo graphic.........
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    GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Again.. what about the mono out, then the pan wouldn't make any difference since it's a summed signal.

    G
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    Right...that is the other option which allows panning at noon but like I said, I am trying to use the main insert as opposed to the main out and I only have insert left and right - no summed mono out.
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    GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Sorry, I'm lost...I still can't picture what you are attempting to do... sorry

    BUT...line level signals are line level signals...I disagree that interconnection in ANY fashion can harm another stage.. power amps into line level signals .. no, but feeding line level signals to all the wrong places is a practice that I used to take great pleasure in...
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    I can't be explaining myself clearly. ..I have a mono graphic eq. I want to connect it to the main insert on the desk. The main insert however is stereo left and right. In order to connect an insert cable correctly, I would have to either plug it into main insert left only and pan everything to the left OR use splitters out the back of the eq to allow 2 insert cables to be used. This option however is the part that I am unsure of...The Mackie tech told me that I might be overloading the eq using splitters...i.e. sending signal via stereo plug left AND right - into ONE input (send) of the eq. I did try it and it worked perfectly but I do not want to damage anything. Because she said it MIGHT overload, I just wasn't sure. If I use main out from the desk, of course this problem goes away because now I have mono mix out to mono eq with a balanced cable. I would have liked to use the inserts in preference but if I have to use the main out....then that is what I will do...
    BTW....I did use the eq in just the left insert using one insert cable with panning centered at first and adjusting the eq did not make much difference to the sound. A friend suggested I pan to the left and WOW..it made a big difference. Panning centrally was only sending a partial signal. Only then did I realize that I could now no longer use my panning on any channel if everything was already panned to the left.
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    GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    What the problem is... you don't explain WHY you want to do this.. you can repeat the same thing and I still won't understand what your trying to accomplish...Here's what I mean:

    Livesound mics and line sources> inputs> masters>(L) insert>dbx EQ>(L) main for live sound tops
    I don't have enough Aux sends and I want to run Aux subs, can I run them off the the right output and use the pan control as the sub feed?

    That is something I can understand.. I want to know what your trying to accomplish in the end, and why it's so important to have the EQ in the insert when if you maintain unity gain throughout the signal chain the meter reading will be accurate post eq... This requires that if you increase one band by 5dB you would need to average that with a 5dB cut OR an average of the EQ curve cut or (gawd forbid) boosted. There are lots of reasons to use XLR connectors instead of 1/4" type, and noise is the biggie..the signal strength is also nice...

    As for the tech you talked to, what you WILL be doing is summing, and that may cause cancellations, but you won't HURT the EQ...line level signals are mostly below 3 volts... not enough to really hurt anything...

    Gadget
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    DraDra Posts: 3,777
    There are many ways to skin a cat. I say connect the EQ to the Mono output.
    You are picking knits about the EQ affecting the metering on the mixer. That is what the input gain on the EQ is for. After adjusting the EQ, kill the amps or unplug the speakers, play pink noise, set the mixer to flicker +10, adjust the EQ's input gain to flicker it's meter +10. I chose +10 because it is the highest common indicator.

    DRA
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    Thank you DRA... That makes sense. I get that there are always a couple of different ways to do things - just wanted to know my options but felt I was not getting my point across. No picking knits going on here.
    Gadget.. I Have run eq's both ways in the past - main out of desk to crossover and inserts. The insert on a desk is created for just this type of application among others so I am unsure as to why my reasoning is being questioned. All I wanted to know was whether my connections using the splitters would be safe and if so then I know my options as to where to place the eq. If not then same result..move forward using main out.
    Thanks
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    GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    What I have been trying to avoid is a long drawn out response because I'm short on time. Yes you CAN use the inserts for equalization BUT is it the BEST place for the EQ, no. You have failed at making me understand your purpose in splitting" the signal, here we try and realize the big picture, and look at all the options but when you say you have a mono system, with a single Eq, and you start talking about submixing...(so now I'm picturing you still having only one EQ and one mix out) wanting to stereo pan channels to the sub masters THEN use a Y device (NOTE NOT a summing device but a Y device... where all manor of cancellation can occur) to send both signals into a MONO eq :roll: :?:

    Properly summed these things are all possible, but inserting the EQ in a single sub, or master output is not the way I'd do it... the intent or purpose here just isn't clear.
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