Lab Subs, who's built some?

drummerboy

Who here has built some Lab Subs? How do you like them, How many are you running? Gadget I believe likes them. I'm needing some more bottom when we do outdoor shows. I have complete woodworking shop, building them is not a problem, just want to know how they compare to commercial boxes.

Thanks,
Greg

Dra

I have none and have never heard any. But, I have read a LOT of people rave about them. There is a thread (actually many threads) on PSW that display actual response traces comparing many subs. Search "sub shootout" and "Lab sub" in general.

Google those as well.

The ONE AND ONLY complaint? There big.

DRA

drummerboy

thanks Dra, yeah I've seen the thread on PSW, I've downloaded the plans, or what is called plans it's actually just a set of pictures. I can build from those though with not much trouble. They are 4' boxes, pretty big. I'm using a set of PSA cabs now that are 48 x32 x 25. I have plenty of room to carry them. I'm looking for plenty or let's just say "more" bottom doing the outdoor shows.

In case anyone happens along this thread that has built some I would be interested in seeing where they got there plan information, if available anywhere besides the psw thread. Would like just a bit more info.

Dra

Check in the actual SUB forum there. As I recall that are detailed dimensional plans there, available for download.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,22.0.html


DRA

Gadget

Hi Greg,

Ya I have LABsubs, and they are awesome...the design is about 2 decades old and was first implemented in the Servosound Servo Seven's, developed by Tom Danley (the designer of the LABsubs) The reason I mention this, is, that new developments like updated drivers with higher power handling have changed the landscape a bit but the LABsub design still holds up today. Tom has of late switched from exponential horn design to tapped horns. What this does is increase horn length and utilizes both front and back of the woofer to increase the output and lower the frequency response even further.

I can only compare the LABsubs to what I have put them up against...but I can tell you this, 6 labsubs outdoors with one Digam 5000 driving all 6, blew away 8, JBL SR4719 run by 4 Macrotech 5000's... you couldn't even tell they (4719) were on... that's 20,000 watts, and 16- 18" drivers... versus 5000 watts, and 12- 12" drivers...

Imagine what 20,000 watts on the labs and 8 of them could do? The labsubs are very sfficient, and 4 of them is worth 8-12 of any conventional front loaded sub, and you can do that with less than 1/2 the power.

You will note that with the new drivers and subs that numbers similar to the output , and frequency response are possible... but at what price? How much is an amp that sports 4800 watts of real power? or 10,000 watts? Lets just say you can by a good car for a LOT less...And the subs themselves? start in $2000 per speaker and go up dramatically from there...The labs subs are very comfortable with 1500-1800 watts peak.

It takes a group of 4 LABs to do high 30 hz and 6 will approach 20 hz...If you have never experienced this SUB frequency stuff.. it's CRAZY... I can't stand the sound of front loaded subs any more, but some, have become accustomed to the distortion of front loaded subs think the horn loaded subs don't "sound" as loud, when in reality it's MUCH louder and actually produces sub sonic content, that will "quiver your liver"

The LABsub build is VERY challenging to say the least, and to assume you can build them from pictures is a VERY BAD idea...The plans are all still there as DRA pointed out...I went with version 2, with the back bottom and top corners lopped off, for wheels and handle. Makes moving them a one man job. I also cut handle holes around the face of the horn face.
G

drummerboy

Thanks Gadget, I was hoping for someone who actually used them to chime in. I have two dual 18 front loaded, OLD pas subs, and set of Pas tops. I play in a band that does a lot of outdoor stuff in the summer for Relay for Life.I am a three time cancer survivor, and lost both mom and dad last year within 10 months of one another to cancer. One of our original band members died of brain cancer in 1994. So as you can imagine, we do a lot of relay stuff. Never make a dime, but spend a lot of money doing these, and are happy to do it. I just need more bottom outside. I know it's tough to get bottom outside, we don't need to knock down the neighboring houses, but I would like to get good sound without hurting what we have.

As for building them, I don't mean a photo, I should have said I have a copy of what is on the PSW site, it's just a diagram of the dimension's, doesn't say much else. I can build them easily from these.

Will a pair do OK, I know it's said they do better in multiples. I don't see it being very tough to build these in my shop, was thinking build a pair, fire em up and see, then another pair if I like.

Dra

If you are looking for sequential step / buld aides... seems that I recall "somewhere" that there is a "do this first" with pic, "then do this next", etc.

Good luck.

drummerboy

Thanks, I can build them from the limited plans and with a few pics I've seen, It won't be that hard. Where do you prefer to buy your amps and the lab sub12s from, for these? I've seen a few places.

Gadget

Did you find this:
http://web.archive.org/web/200502090254 ... /~labhorn/

It's the definitive build documents with all you should need... even includes dimensions for cad.. and CNC router...

The drivers I buy @ Louds0peakers plus, tell Jay hello from Gary...

Amps.. well depends on what you want to buy, I use one Mac 3600 on a pair...or about 1800 watts...or I might use the new Digam 7000 ... but that's overkill...

Too funny.. that show I was talking about...guess what tops we were using? PAS TOC 3.2...X 6 and the labs outran them BADLY...with a bridged RMX2450 per top!

drummerboy

OK so suppose I build 4 labs, what is a current top 2 way box you like? there's so many out there I'm tired of looking. Get's to be aford and chevy thing. and ratio of tops to labs. I might sell my cabs and go another way.

Gadget

Are the tops the TOC RS 2.... series?... If so, they would be expensive to replace, and (unfortunately) yours aren't worth much... These are the ones I was talking about not the 3. series

They may not have great pattern control but they get LOUD...

I would also need some kind of budget idea (ford > Mercedes> Ferrari)
G

drummerboy

The subs and tops, I cannot find a model number on anywhere, outside, inside on the plates, nowhere. It says pas toc on the handles, and on the horn. Other than that, nothing, I am guessing from other comments these are 1985 - 1990 era cabinets. Im attaching a picture, if I can.
Here is a pic of them on the psw. I've been fighting the problems with them for a couple weeks, I think I have my drpa finally tuned up, most of my problems were in the xover settings, but I think I had some loose speaker clamps. I'm ready to try out what Ive done so far. In our practice building it's sounding ok, test will be next weekend.

So what do you think these things are?

PS the tops have Renkus-Heinz drivers on the horns, and pas hl2580c 15's in them.

jthunderbass

One quick question about the LABsubs, before i start cutting up wood, are these only good outdoors? Or would they work great indoors? Or would i be better off going a differnt route for indoors? I am ok with building say 4 or 6 LABsubs, and then keeping them in storage till i need them for an outdoor gig. Does the show being outdoors or indoors even matter?
Also when you have them in groups of 4 or 6, is that 4 or 6 per side of the stage? Or total?

Gadget

Let me put it to you this way...I put just 2 in a normal sized bar...and was testing the sound, and pots and pans, and all manor of things started falling off shelves and bottles were rattling and glasses were dancing on table tops...(Pink Floyd... Darkside) The cook came running out and said wholly S&^$*&$*! what the hell just happened did someone run into the building? :shock: :shock: :shock:

4 LABsubs in a cluster.. indoors in a BIG bar install...testing out the system and tuning after hours one night...next day a close friend of the owner came in and said man... there was an earthquake last night, that's never happened before... He lived in a basement apartment a block and a half away...

I was kickin ass and takin names with a killer band and some guy comes running back all panicky..." The floor is moving man! Were all gonna end up in the BASEMENT... the floors gonna buckle!!! :shock: :shock: :shock: I said " Um... there's no basement... that's a concrete slab..."

The LABsubs "like" to be run in groups wherever possible... it smooths the response and lowers the frequency response... the more you have together... the lower they will go, and the more terrifying the results are but they will work even one per side, just not as devastating as all in a block...

In short, yes they will work equally well indoors and out, just be prepared for the FALLOUT... BAHAHAHA 8)

Oh and after a few shows with the Labs... Thunderbase will be an UNDERSTATEMENT...

jthunderbass

There is now a 4 ohm version of the 12 inch lab. Is this better then the 6 ohm version? Im finally able to start building the subs. I wanted to last year but havent been able to till now.
One other question, is it 3/4 inch plywood? If I did the math right it should take 3 sheets of plywood to build one sub.
At first Im going to build one sub then after a while ill build another.

Gadget

Hi,
Well that depends on the amp you have to power them...most amps won't do 1.5 ohms... so you would need to wire them one woofer per channel (of a stereo amp). two drivers @ 8 ohms gives a dc resistance of 3.1 ohms or so...

I can't for the life of me remember exactly how much wood it takes but if you can afford it get Baltic birch/ void free! I saw a demo once where the lifted a Harley full bagger by the 4 corners. Regular plywood would be lucky to pick up a vespa...Then they threw a piece of both in a bucket of water, and the regular plywood swelled up and fell apart in hours...

jthunderbass

The plan was to use the Crown XTI4002's in stereo. If I have it correct I can run 2 sub boxes using the 6 ohm version of the drivers with one box per side.
Can I get away with using the Pyle Pro 4000 amps? They claim 4000 watts mono bridged at 4 ohms, or in stereo it would be like just under 2000 watts at 2 ohms. There a budget amp so I really dont know how accurate that 4000 watts number really is.
I plan on haveing 8 LABsubs. What amp would you recomend for this setup? 4 boxes per side of the stage.
If I figured it right, I should be able to use 4 XTI 4002s for the 8 subs.

Dennis

Gadget wrote:

I can't for the life of me remember exactly how much wood it takes but if you can afford it get Baltic birch/ void free! ..

I agree on the Baltic Birch and any time I have purchased it, the sheet size was 5'x5'. the thickness is a metric value close to 3/4"

Gadget

Unfortunately the XTI 4002 doesn't make a very good sub amp...However the Peavey IPR series...stereo only but the Peavey IPR 5000 would fit the bill nicely, weighs under 10 lbs :shock: and has a 5 year warranty
http://www.peavey.com/products/index.cf ... bsp%3B5000
Otherwise the old iron horse amps are hard to beat for shear impact and punch.. few digital PS amps can match the old iron, the Power soft amps are really the only ones I've found that really do...