Advise on how I could setup best?
BTproductions
Posts: 86
Ok here's whats going on. I've been asked to do a room in a venue that's way bigger than I've ever done. So first if you guys could, take the time and look at the pics of the room here www.djsfromouterspace.com/#/venue/ That gives a pretty good idea of it. I would be setup on the stage in the pics and that's the main stage of the venue. The headliners are on that stage and they are John Acquaviva and Anthony Attalla so this has got to end up being up to par with heavy bass. I have in my arsenal all EAW 4 LA460 tops which stack ontop of 4 LA400's and if I can get some drivers re coned in time I'll have 4 SB850's. The SB's are old I'm not sure if they are the R version but they are not the Z's. Basically I'm looking for 2 things. Will I have enough to do this like they want? and where would I best place the SB850's? I figure the 460/400 stacks can go up on stage left and right and I was thinking put all 4 SB850's on the floor in the center of the stage. Want to make sure the bass is focused is the center of the dance floor. Also this would be the first time I've setup a center fill sub (should you guys agree that's the best route) I have the tools to do it properly as you know with Smaart but I'm gonna need to make sure I'm right about how to do it and all. I've not gotten to use Smaart in that way I've only used it to PEQ my UX8800 so far. That can wait till later tho.
Thanks -Mark
Thanks -Mark
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Comments
It sounds like you have basic venue measurements down OK for now. It's baseline stuff I want to work on with you. It will create a starting point that you set prior to setup at the venue. You will have a lot less to do at the venue.
I'm sure you have SMAART configuered correctly but I need to double check. With pink going through your system, when you start SMAART and you use the RTA, do you have a green trace (or bars) for the mic and a blue trace(bars) for the line from your mixer? If the answer is yes, are your levels in SMAART just barely hitting yellow on the meters?
If you switch from RTA to Transfer Function, You should be able to see Magnitude, Phase, and Coherence Traces. How are we doing so far?
For that kind of rig, if I was seriously gonna tax it I'd want 100 amps, and wouldn't do it with less then 50 amp 240...Lights need to be on a different circuit, and can draw significantly more power than the audio, depending on the light show.
I don't think there are 30 amp "standard" Edison. Hopefully it's a performance venue that has adequate power for the acts that come through. You need a contract that specifies power needs for the system. So what amp/ amps are you using for the mains then?
Gadget
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DRA
As you wish.
It's my understanding you are biamping the 460s. EAW's xo point filters are 80Hz BW24 - 1.58kHz LR24 for the 460 Low and 1.83kHz BW24 - thru for the 460 Hi. It looks like a gap between the Low and Hi which we can check out when measuring. EAWs setting for the 400 Sub is a 30Hz BW12 HPF with a 80 - 120Hz BW24 LPF. I personally would choose at least a BW18 if not a BW24 for the HPF
EAW's delay settings (for use with LA400) are 460 Hi 6.44ms, 460 Low 6.00ms, 400 Sub 0.00ms.
All of these EAW settings are a good starting point (if not a good final result)
To get started we will be doing groundplane measurements....do you remember Gadget posting the following pic a while back? In your driveway you will lay the 460 on it's side and do all of the measurements involving it's Hi's and Lows. When finished, you will sit an upright 460 on an upright 400 and check the alignment of the 400. For the groundplane measurements, position the mic about 12' - 15' from the 460 with the end of the mic about 1/16" from the ground. The purpose of groundplane is to eliminate reflections from the ground.
To be continued.......................
I noticed he mentioned the UX8800 but never thought about it having settings already. My answer is I don't know. What needs to be accomplished is 400s aligned to 460s and the front loaded EAW subs aligned to the 400s....that part of the equation will have to be done manually either way. If BTproductions does everything manually it will make for a good "SMAART exercise".
Gadget, it was a good question to ask
Prior to doing measurements, It would be good to do a basic gain structure and get the amp levels set correctly in relation to each other. I’m sure you have worked these levels out at live gigs and have a good idea of what works and where you want to be so lets start there.
Run pink noise through the 460. Click on “Find�. Enter the offset delay number that comes up and the Coherence Trace should stabilize. Do not move the measurement mic until we have completed the 460. Add volume until the Coh Trace settles. Add or subtract level from the individual 460 pass-bands so the magnitude trace levels out as much as possible. This should be enough level to do your measurements. At this point, using the Magnitude Trace you could do some basic PEQing to smooth out the 460s response. We are not looking for “ruler flat� here at this point…..just ballpark. DO NOT CHANGE ANY LEVELS FROM THIS POINT ON.
Capture the Mag and Phase trace for the 460 full range.
Capture the Mag and Phase trace for the 460 Highs only
Capture the Mag and Phase trace for the 460 Lows only
Hide the full range and Hi traces. Display the 460 low static trace. Run pink through the 460 Hi and observe the live trace (yellow or brown). So now you should have a static trace representing the Lows and a live trace representing the Highs.
In the Magnitude window, move the cursor to the xo point where the static trace and the live trace intersect. That cursor is also mirrored in the Phase window. If EAWs numbers are right, the cursor in the Phase window should appear where the static Phase trace and the live phase trace intersect (and ideally overlap). If this is not the case, add or subtract delay to the highs until the phase traces line up at the cursor location.
We will align the sub now and we will have to move the 460 to accomplish it so we will have to change the offset delay. Set the 400 upright. Set the 460 upright on top of the 400. Leave the mic in its current location but raise it up so that it is aimed at a point between the 460 low and the 460 horn. Run pink full range through the 460. Click on “find� and insert offset delay.
Capture the Mag and Phase trace for the 460 full range.
Capture the Mag and Phase trace for the 460 Lows only
Capture the Mag and Phase trace for the 400
Hide the full range and low 460 traces. Display the static 400 trace. Run pink through the 460 low and observe the live trace. So now you should have a static trace representing the 400 and a live trace representing the 460 lows.
In the Magnitude window, move the cursor to the xo point where the static trace and the live trace intersect. That cursor is also mirrored in the Phase window. If EAWs numbers are right, the cursor in the Phase window should appear where the static Phase trace and the live phase trace intersect (and ideally overlap). If this is not the case, add or subtract delay to the 460 lows until the phase traces line up at the cursor location.
The main part of your system should now be aligned. Time for a break.
To be continued………………………….
The final step is dealing with the SB850s. At this point, we have LA400s on either side of the stage that are aligned to the mains (LA460s). Once we have a line of subs across the entire stage (which is basically what you will end up with) you can’t really align subs to mains because you have bass coming from everywhere. What we can do is align front loaded subs to the folded horn subs so at least all of the subs will be firing at the same time.
I am going to assume nothing has moved since the last measurement (if it has, click on “find� and enter new offset delay number)
Set an upright SB850 beside the upright LA400 so the fronts of both of the cabinets are flush and aimed at the mic. Run pink through the 400.
Capture the Mag and Phase trace for the 400
Run pink through the SB850 and observe the live trace. While observing a static 400 trace and a live SB850 trace, add delay to the SB850 until the live Phase Trace overlaps the static Phase Trace. This pretty much covers the baseline alignment procedure.
No doubt you will want to do additional EQing and afterward , it would probably be good to repeat the alignment steps and make sure nothing changed.
Let me know how this goes.
-Mark