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dj setup vs live setup
jthunderbass
Posts: 60
I need some wisdom. This past weekend I provided audio for a fundraiser. The system I was using was a Berhinger board, into a Driverack PA, into Crate 1400 watt power amp into 2 Soundtech eminence loaded 215 tops at 4 ohms. For lows it was 2 212 bent horn (or folded horn, not sure the correct term) subs loaded with Peavey Black Widow speakers powered by an Audio Centron 1400 watt power amp at 4 ohms.
Doing the auto eq outdoors is the most incredible thing I've ever heard. It was so loud that 1000 ft away it was still crystal clear. The sound was so thick and fat. The mids were incredible, the lows were punchy and clear.
I got so many complements on how good it sounded. One person said "its so loud, but its not uncomfortable" the other complement I got was the email that was sent in from someone 2 miles away complaining about the music being "to loud" this is the person that always sends in the noise complaints when everyone else sends in emails about how they love the outdoor concerts that are put on at this event center.
The wisdom I need is, I was matching the power which was perfect for a dj setup like this. If I triple the power, will I get the same results for a live set up, as I did for the dj setup? Or do I need more speakers? Or is it all subjective?
Doing the auto eq outdoors is the most incredible thing I've ever heard. It was so loud that 1000 ft away it was still crystal clear. The sound was so thick and fat. The mids were incredible, the lows were punchy and clear.
I got so many complements on how good it sounded. One person said "its so loud, but its not uncomfortable" the other complement I got was the email that was sent in from someone 2 miles away complaining about the music being "to loud" this is the person that always sends in the noise complaints when everyone else sends in emails about how they love the outdoor concerts that are put on at this event center.
The wisdom I need is, I was matching the power which was perfect for a dj setup like this. If I triple the power, will I get the same results for a live set up, as I did for the dj setup? Or do I need more speakers? Or is it all subjective?
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You mentioned that you have the perfect power to speaker ratio for pre recorded music, adding to it will only make you more susceptible to damaging the drivers, ESPECIALLY in a system where the drivers that were designed for the cabinet have been replaced with something else... But for live music if you add headroom that is generally a good idea...just that 1dB of additional headroom isn't likely to make a huge difference...
Therefore, the LABsubs were designed around the Eminence LAB12 ...
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,22.0.html
Above is a link to the info on the LABsubs...
These are REAL SUBwoofers... capable of subsonic performance...in groups of 4 they are sick.. 6 is devastating and 8.. well, :shock: :shock: :shock:
6 LABsubs could be FELT 1/4 mile away...imagine what it's like for those idiots that like to sit IN the subs... :roll:
Meening ma! Lol!
Im running some ideas for prices through my head, and it looks like I could build these subs for less then 218 subs would cost me. Why are they 6 ohm speakers? Why didn't they make them 8 or 4 ohms?
Im really excited to put these together! Also im gonna be a/bing some EAI 12 inch wedges with Yamaha Club series 12s. Ill put comments up on those in a month or so. Im gonna run them on the Driverack PA and crown amps.
They are 6.2 ohms per driver (DC resistance) the nominal resistance is therefor 3.1 ohms per box...this is DC resistance and is a measure of the minimum resistance that any amp will see for load. This was a design element and a way to get maximum efficiency from the design.. Tom Danley had Eminence speakers build this driver specifically for this project. The thing is...this speaker is happy as a clam with about 1600 watts... It would take 3 double 18's with 5 times the power to equal one LABsub...and even then you wouldn't have nearly the LF extension...and the distortion would be MUCH MUCH higher...
No, actually it would be about $500 to build the LBD series (in 218 form) subs I posted in the FAQ section... but that's not the only cost because then you need way more power to get the same sound out of a front loaded box... remember that the efficiency of a horn loaded sub like the LABsubs is about 104dB where a typical 218 box is only 94-98dB a 6-8 dB increase :shock: :shock: :shock: that's 2-3 TIMES as loud!!!
Gadget, I know that the room is usually dark... but dude... paint the inside of those bass cabs (in your spare time).
I have a question. :?:
From a perfectionist view of "sound"... irrespective of numbers of cabs (4 of one, 30 of another, etc) how would the labs compare to best Meyer's, Danly's, L'Acoustics, etc in sheer sonic perfection / performance?
DRA
The LABsubs were designed by Tom Danley and a consortium of us PSW users, and was conceived to provide a truly professional DIY alternative to to the insanely expensive high output concert subs. The current batch of speakers available are benefiting from some new driver concepts that can handle insane amounts of power, but then you have to HAVE the power, and it ain't cheap to but amps in the 4000watts and up range.
Danley currently has a different technology they are using for LF extension, known as tapped horn. (versus folded horn) It (again coupled with new driver technology) allows for insanely low frequencies (some in the 16-17 hz range) and high output. Remember though that the labsubs are a 10+ year old design that goes back to the old Servodrives...
In PSW shootouts (and of course as in anything) where personal taste and "visual listening" are often factors, the labs did extremely well. I believe David Lee, owner of BASSMAXX was stunned that the labs beat out his subs(by his own admission). Just one memorable quote form the shootouts...They definitely easily kept up to (and most thought surpassed significantly) the EAW 949 super subs (basically the same design) a sub that sells for about $7500+ each... :shock:
There were some subs that do better in small groups, (or singles), remember that the labs were designed to be used in groups of 4 or more. There is also a contingent that commented that the front loaded subs were louder, when in actuality they are not, but the distortion makes them seem louder (to some). For this reason horn subs are not for everyone..I personally can't stand the sound of front loaded subs any more after having the Labs for so long... the distortion is just... well... painful!
So the answer I guess is, the labsubs are an amazing value and are capable of competing even in today market. One of the reasons is the fact that they take so little power to run.
also, would there be any benefit to setting the pa up like this..... 2-4 LABsubs next to each other, then on top of them lay the 212 subs i have on there side. I would use them as mid range drivers, then on top of that stack 2 215 2 way tops? Ive found that those 212 subs do really well on mids. They have black widow speakers in them.
Vas for the delta is 8.6 cubic feet, and the omega is 9.1
Do those horns even go down to 1500hz? I doubt it...