Using DRPA+Bill Fitzmaurice Omnitop 15 tops and Titan 48 sub

KTOKTO

Hello,

I am thinking of moving away from our currently setup to a DRPA+ and have a fre questions on the ease of setup considering I am using some custom built cabinets.

I am curently running two Bill Fitzmaurice Omnitop 15 tops and one Bill Fitzmaurice Titan 48 for our sub. More info on the cabinets here...

omnitops
http://billfitzmaurice.info/OmniTop15.html

titan48 sub
http://billfitzmaurice.info/T48.html

I am a rookie with live sound so the videos I see on the setup wizards on the DRPA+ look very appealing to me. My question is this, how much trouble am I going to have tuning my bands setup with my oddball speakers. I also use a behringer ep amp for the tops with isn't on the DRPA+ amp list.

Can someone point me to some resources that would help me configure the PA+ for my setup?

Thanks!

KTOKTO

In a nutshell, I'm looking for more information on how to set the DRPA+ when your speakers are not on the wizard lists.

Thanks again.

Gadget

The wizard is really more a crutch for those that want it all given to them... for the most part...not so much for speakers needing active processing. The problem is the speakers you have do not have any professional tunings, and there is a BIG difference between a set of proper tunings and a fullrange preset in the driverack.

The good thing is there are all the tools necessary for you to tame those speakers, you'll probably need a little help from us though. Are you using the Piezo tweeters or the horn loaded ones or the dual horns, and in any case we'll need to know exactly what drivers are in use.

In the meantime you might want to do some reading in the FAQ section:

viewforum.php?f=60

and familiarize yourself with the Start here thread:

viewforum.php?f=61

Hopefully you have the measurement mic?

KTOKTO

Thank you for the quick reply and the good news. I just bought the DRPA+ and it should be here early next week.

To answer your questions, I am using the 20 piezo melded array and 15" Eminence Delta 15 drivers in the Omnitops and a 15" Eminence Kappalite 3015LF in the Titan Sub. I do have a Behringer ECM8000 measurement mic.



The tops are being powered by a behringer EP2000 amp and the sub is powered by a QSC GX3.

I currently manually RTA the system using true RTA with hit or miss results. The speakers sound like they have great potential, I just need help so we sound good at more than one in three shows

Thanks again. Please let me know if you need any more information I can round up the specs on the drivers and amps, I just need to know what I will need.

Gadget

So I assume those are the no crossover, allow the woofer to die off where the tweeter starts designs? Where did you get the piezo's at?

KTOKTO

There is a high pass filter on the piezo array and a low pass on the 15" driver. Both at 2KHz from what I am reading in the plans.

The piezos are Goldwood model 1016 from parts express

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... ood%201016


with the housing cut to place 2 piezos side by side at a 90 degree angle and in a stack of 10 pairs high like this.

Dra

The spec show a range only down to 3500hz. That is almost a full octive missing. Must not be 2K.

DRA

KTOKTO

You are probably right. I don't have the plans in front of my right now.

Gadget

Well an array like that can push the HP a bit lower but as you say that's a considerable chunk missing, and it would be a very gentle falloff below the cutoff point.. not like adding a filter, even @ dB/oct...

KTOKTO

So, if I am reading everything right, tuning these things will basically consist of selecting "custom" as the speaker type and let the dbx flatten the response curve via the measurement mic, tweak to taste. Is this correct?

Gadget

So I take it then that you did NOT read the "Start here" thread? That you also didn't spend any time looking through and reading the pertinent threads on the FAQ section? Because that's not all there is, but the process is pretty starit forward if you follow the directions.

I think (no, I KNOW) you would get much BETTER results running the tops bi-amped, but thats not what you asked about, and the driverack will help you a LOT in the form you are using now.

There is still the measurement process to determine what the tweeters are capable of, and then the selection of the crossover type, and slope, and implementation...that same process between the subs and low mids...plus an HPF to protect the subs and low mid and even the tweeters. even though they don't present a dynamic load...

These are all things that are not covered in the manual or the setups, but are in the reading. So, if you want to learn, proceed..

KTOKTO

I guess ill keep reading then

I didnt realize the questions about the tweeter array were in regards to bi amping the tops.

Id have no problem rewiring the tops and bi-amping them if i would get far better performance.

I will get the recommdedxover frequency later today.

Dra

Do piezos even need filtering or power protection?

DRA

KTOKTO

Dra wrote:

Do piezos even need filtering or power protection?

DRA

From what I gather, the answer is no but you will get more sensitivity with one. Here is the verbiage from the plans regarding the high pass filter.

"This filter has a 2kHz corner frequency, reducing power to the piezos by 12dB at 1kHz, while increasing their sensitivity from 2.5kHz to 5kHz by about 2dB."

I am only going to be using these tops in bars with crowds up to 350. I'm not sure if I am going to see any huge benefits running these bi-amped for the levels I will be pushing. I am sure that is a question I could post on the BFM forum.

Gadget

The point of bi-amping here is for alignment purposes... having all the drivers information coming out at the same time, and minimizing the interaction in the crossover region. That 2K-3k5 are is a particularly critical one in voice and instrument clarity...not on you would want to have a big sonic mess. The tweeters are pretty far in front of the woofers in this case, you'll also find yourself subject to beaming across the entire audible range of the 12", which is why typically like to use a horn that can go down into the 1000-1200hz area where the beaming isn't so prominent.

The things of interest to you are the how to's of Auto EQ, alignment, and gain structure. You will probably need to do a alignment based on the physical dimensions of d the disparity. Looks to be about a foot or so? If you have an amp for the tweeters (wouldn't have to be much... probably about 50-100 watts @ 8 ohms? would be plenty, remember the piezo's don't present a resistive load, but are instead reactive..

I think the first thing I would do is separate the array (leave them in the enclosure but run them separate form the woofer and get a snapshot of their performance with no crossover .. in stand alone mode, and post that here.

KTOKTO

Well, my plans for now are to keep the included pasive filters in the tops and running the 2 way setup with mono sub. We are a small rock band that play a ton of different clubs around 300 people. The simplier setup is the right tool for the job right now.