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Needing help with setup/configuring DRPA+ for FOH + monitors
mgh732
Posts: 8
Hi,
I am a newbie to Pro Sound, and needing help big time with the DriveRack PA+ setup and configuration. We have 2 QSC K10s and 2 QSC KSubs as our FOH (all in mono), and another pair of QSC K10s for the floor monitors (also in mono). Some people say that one DRPA+ unit would be sufficient to run our system, but some people say that we need 2 DRPA+ units (one for the FOH, and one for the monitors).
Our church is just a small country church without any sound engineers to help us. We were thinking that the DRPA+ would help us greatly with getting rid of all the anoying feedbacks we get when we do church program where lots of microphones are open. We opted for the PA+ instead of the PX because of the PA+'s ability to update its tuning list to newer speakers (more future proof).
Will you please help us by shedding light to our predicaments? If we just need one or two (hopefully just one due to limited funds), how are we going to connect it between the mixer and the speakers? And after connecting, what is the best process to get the Auto Wizard going?
Thanks in advance.
mgh732
I am a newbie to Pro Sound, and needing help big time with the DriveRack PA+ setup and configuration. We have 2 QSC K10s and 2 QSC KSubs as our FOH (all in mono), and another pair of QSC K10s for the floor monitors (also in mono). Some people say that one DRPA+ unit would be sufficient to run our system, but some people say that we need 2 DRPA+ units (one for the FOH, and one for the monitors).
Our church is just a small country church without any sound engineers to help us. We were thinking that the DRPA+ would help us greatly with getting rid of all the anoying feedbacks we get when we do church program where lots of microphones are open. We opted for the PA+ instead of the PX because of the PA+'s ability to update its tuning list to newer speakers (more future proof).
Will you please help us by shedding light to our predicaments? If we just need one or two (hopefully just one due to limited funds), how are we going to connect it between the mixer and the speakers? And after connecting, what is the best process to get the Auto Wizard going?
Thanks in advance.
mgh732
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Comments
See if this answers your questions.
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2228
DRA
Since were dealing with a 10" low mid and the sub goes up to 140hz I would suggest a xover around 125-130hz ...LR24 crossover slope...
Thank you both so much for your very quick response. The very detailed instructions are still a bit confusing to me as a newbie (ha ha). The instructions are so clear,...the problem is with me. I think I'm get confused because of all the different speakers and amps involved, wheras in my case, I simply have active speakers/subs/monitors.
Sometimes, I also have the tendency to make simple things harder than what they are (ha ha).
But I will try to follow it as much as I could, and I will update you of the progress or the lack thereof.
Thanks again for spending time answering newbies like me. When I learn, I hope I could also help others.
mgh732
2. Hook the mains from the console (if you have a mono out hook that to the left input of the DRPA) otherwise hook either the left, or right out of the mixer into the left input of the DRPA
3. Send a PRE fader aux to the right input of the DRPa
4. Hook the QSC tops to the LEFT Hi out of the DRPA
5. Hook the left low out of the DRPA to the subs
6. Hook the right mid out of the DRPA to the monitors
7. Press the xover button on the DRPA ... in the upper left corner of the screen on the DRPA you will see an HML... that is the High. Mid and Low outputs.
you need to look at which of the H M L is highlighted in the crossover and set up the slope and crossover points specified...
For the L outs you need to set the HPF to OUT or below 30 hz...you do this by using the < prev and next> and the encoder to accomplish this ... not that the encoder also has a PRESS function...set the LPF to 118hz LR24
For the H outs you want to set the HPF to 118hz LR24, you DO NOT HAVE a LPF on the high outs
For the M outs, you want to set the HPF to around 160hz and the LPF to around 12khz... this will limit the amount of frequencies to the monitors, and the feedback potential for low mid swell and HF squeal (feedback).
You need to set the DRPA on a table and mess with EVERY knob and dial and find out what it does... you cannot screw anything up...you can only modify USER presets that can easily be returned to factory spec with a Hard reset...But why not simply select a preset you don't care about.. like those for JBL stereo 3 way speakers...??? Try and input/ modify the preset as I specified, then try and use the wizard and set up a CUSTOM preset...
Answer the questions as they come up as best you can.. if you don't have a preset available enter "custom" for amp sensitivity don't worry about it.. you would HAVE to modify the amplifier sensitivity (turn it up or down) as indicated.. and that is addressed in the gain structure part of the setup.
Hopefully that gets you going...
G
As I was reading your instructions though, I realized that I should have asked you about how to use the RTA mic for the "pink noise," and when should the process of "analyzing" start or end in relation to the instructions you gave me.
If you still have some time to put up with idiots like me, I would really appreciate it. But no hurry, Sir. Because I am sure you are a very busy person. And once again, millions of thanks for all your help!
mgh732
2 separate x-overs (units)... L & R
If they were actually 2 units then you would have a 2 way set up for Hi's and Low's with a 118hz x-over point, and the 2nd set up for full range (but applying filters on the high and low ends to curb feedback).
Remember that these 2 units are in the same box (Driverack). You have 3 independant stereo filters ...
Hi-Left / Hi-right (the filter setting in inseparably linked)
Mid-Left / Mid-Right (same)
Lo-Left / Lo-Right (same)
Any one of the output pairs can be used for Hi output, (Mid & Lo) by simply raising the upper (lo-pass / high-cut) filter, and using the lower (hi-pass / lo-cut) filter as the x-over point.
Because the Hi output has no upper filter it can't be used for anything except for highs or full range.
Hi's - Highs or full range
Mid's - Highs, mids, lows, or full range
Lo's - Highs, mids, lows, or full range
There is no mystical reason that the House mix in on the left Hi and Lo outputs and the Monitors are on the right Mid outputs. It is just the most logical, since the mains are 2-way (Hi's & Lo's) it is easy to remember for hook-ups.
Let us know how it goes.
DRA
Have you read the FAQ thread(s) about this or read any of the previous threads on this subject. The FAQs are in the first section, NOT in the tab bar above.
It is all layed out there. If you have ?'s feel free...
DRA
I don't know how you both do what you do...your response times are super fast (maybe none of you sleep...ha ha ha). Anyway, I appreciate you all baby-sitting me electronically speaking. May The Lord bless you both for what you all do for others. I know, when I get this thing going, a lot of people will be blessed in church. And both of you will have a part in it!
Thanks, thanks, thanks.
mgh732
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The thing about the setup is, if we use the Left input for the mains and the right for the monitors that is the way the Auto EQ will do the system, left channel first, right second... that is why it's important to set up the crossover as DUAL MONO and not linked stereo...
There are a lot of aspects to the auto EQ that one should know, but in a nutshell...
1. tops only (one actually), outdoors away from ALL reflective surfaces...on a stand (freespace) mic on the ground, on a towel about 20-25feet out. If you cannot take them outdoors ... unplug ALL but one top, mic on the floor, on a towel or carpet, 25 feet strait out from that speaker. If there are pews in that location get a folding table and put it in that location with the towel and all...
2. Do the pass high precision, flat response. I would suggest lowering the HPF for the tops during the auto EQ to about 60hz... this will eliminate the possibility of the auto Eq "NOT Finished" message. This will appear if more than 4 bands of frequency are fully boosted or cut, and with the HPF set @ 120hz or above that is a lot of low end cut out...This would also allow a "fullrange preset to be set up, like for voice only...
3. If your indoors the LF will NOT measure well, and really only an outdoor auto EQ will fix that. Set the level and eq by ear, paying attention to the 60 hz (for boominess) and 100 hz (typical response bump on subs) I generally set up a PEQ on these locations so I can match the response to the rest of the system and the room.
4. Look at the product curve (press the [ EQ ] button and view with suspicion any frequencies that are cut or busted significantly... and re-do them by ear...
5. For the right, mid output again you might want to lower the HPF and raise the LPF till after the Auto EQ pass, then put the filters back in place...again to limit feedback and room buildup potential... place the mic in the typical "head" position for the monitor aimed at the speaker.
6. Store the results, with name in some location you can recall easily...
As I said, if you have instances where spoken word and light playback are the norm, a fullrange preset without subs would be a good idea...So that would be 2 different presets...
I would also suggest a PEQ on the high outs that would help tame room buildup in the midrange... Place a PEQ @ about 350hz with a @ of about 1 and then lower the gain till the room buildup (muddy sound) goes away...
DRA
I had the notion that the RTA mic is to analyze the "room" where the speakers would be used,...that I have to use the RTA mic in every venue where I would take my PA system (for example). I got confused when you said that it's better to setup using the RTA mic outdoors. Would you please explain this to me, if you'd find time.
Thanks again, Sir.
Mr. DRa,
Thanks for pointing me to the right sources (i.e. FAQ regarding the RTA mic). Will read on it as soon as I could.
Thanks to you, too.
You sir have been reading the party line... where "all you need to do is plop down a system anywhere in the world, stick a mic anywhere in the room and VOULIX perfect sound!"
Don't work like that son...when you place a mic, on a stand...in between speakers, you provide MULTIPLE paths to the mic.... these multiple paths will contain paths where the direct sound and the reflected sound are 180degrees apart on arrival... this will effectively CANCEL that frequency at the mic... so what do you think the auto EQ is gonna do with a frequency that is TOTALLY GONE when it looks for it? Well let me tell you... it's going to BOOST the frequency fully and cause all sorts of feedback and the sound is going to be TERRIBLE!
Multiply that one frequency by an infinite number of frequencies between 20 hz and 20,000 hz and you have a recipe for DISASTER...plus, move the mic a few inches in ANY direction and that frequency goes away only to be replaced by another.. and many other possibilities...
So, what good is the Auto Eq then? Well if you've been following along...which it seems you have (except for the copious reading we indicated for you), we, the USERS of this great and magical product that slices and dices and does dishes....AND windows...WE...have come up with some very good ways to use the product... just NOT the way dbx would have you believe it works...Sorry...
The reason for the mic on the floor is to ELIMINATE any and all bounce reflections to the mic, no matter how small...(short the wavelength ... the higher the frequency the shorter the wavelength...) to the mic on a stand. There will still be bounces but these are room interactions...The correct way to do it would be to measure each side of the room separately AND one in the center and AVERAGE the measurements.. I don't know how to do that easily (the averaging)... so lets just try and get the speakers as FLAT as possible and thus excite the room as little as possible in the process... THAT is the reason for outdoor auto EQ.. to eliminate ALL reflective surfaces... get the speaker in free space where NO surface interacts and causes response differences due to boundary interactions...
BEWARE young padawan...in this business... the more you learn the less you know...
We have provided all the information here for you to learn the what, why and how... you just need to determine if you want to know, and if so, the journey begins...
Thanks for all the knowlege and patience you have shared. You don't now how much I appreciate your time.
Again, I apologize for my slowness.
May God bless you.
mgh732
Presently, the church's sound system is doing its job fairly well every Sunday morning, Sunday evening, and Wednesday evening services. During those regular services, we really don't need the DRPA+ that much. But when we hold big programs (i.e. the coming Christmas Cantata) where the sanctuary is usually full of people, and a lot of mics are turned on, that is when we are plagued with feedback and squeeling problems galore! (ha ha ha). We basically just use a yamaha digital piano and pre-recorded accompaniment DVD music tracks for backing up the choir. It's a very small country church with 200 seating capacity. You would think it's very simple, but I'm still having problems (talking about a baby in swaddling clothes - ha ha ha).
So another music minister from another church told me about the DBX DRPA+ that he claimed would solve our problems. He said that it was designed for a layperson like me to operate, and it will automatically do the job for me. That all I have to do is set it up properly and push some preset buttons, and it's done! So we bought it and start having issues (ha ha ha). That led to my cries for help.
It is good that I still have about 5 months to prepare before the Christmas Cantata, because now I've found out that all the automation hype about the DRPA+ are not true. Even the music catalog where we bought it from says that it is "like permanently hiring an experienced live sound engineer!"
But everything you have explained to me really makes sense. Only a newbie like me would fall for such hypes. Anyway, thanks to you, I have all I need to experiment with. Hopefully, my friends and I would get it and not cause anything to blow up (ha ha ha).
Thank you very much, and may God bless you!
mgh732