New Mixer

mclir9

Howdy,
I plan on possibly upgrading from my present Behringer PMH3000 to an Allen Heath MixWizard3 16:2. Will I need to go through the whole rigorous process again of EQ'ing my SP2 speakers as discussed in the FAQ's using the PEQ?? Fingers crossed, I hope the answers no, that process took me hours last time I did it.

Dra

Well that depends on what you are talking about.

No - If you are talking about getting speakers to a flat response, because the mixer does not even have to be connected for that.
Yes - If you mean to get the sound from each input signal like you want it with the channel eq strip. But that will have nothing to do with DR settings.

If you had to monkey with the DR's GEQ to override the channel strip's eq because they were not adequate, that is another story.

You will love the 316:2. Be sure to download the fx software and get a midi cord. Not only does it allow you to modify parameters on the fly, but it changes the dual channel options.

DRA

mclir9

"No - If you are talking about getting speakers to a flat response, because the mixer does not even have to be connected for that."
That's the one I'm talking about. Shwooo!!!!

Gadget

No... is the short answer. I recommend however, that you look at the Presonus 16:4:2, an AMAZING sonic improvement that will blow your mind with the feature set and quality of the sound. There is NO comparison...no EQ's needed as there are 31 band Eq's on every output (10) compressors, limiters 4 band Eq, gates, variable HPF on every channel, and every output...multitrack recording at the touch of a button (the recordings are nothing short of amazing). I can walk around and mix on an Ipad, stand on stage with the performers and set up the monitors...

Imagine walking in, setting down the mixer hooking up a laptop and plugging in the speakers, NO outboard gear, no racks of equipment... your not tied down to the mixer, no snake needed any more...put the mixer on stage and walk around, sit with the people in the audience...virtual sound check available on the laptop, record the show for review later.. sell the recordings to the bands...

To me ... this is the biggest game changer in my years of audio... I cannot even consider doing this with an analog board ever again, it's THAT mind blowing...

I did monitors for a national country recording artist this last weekend and the band was amazed and blown away by the sound I got them. Made me look VERY good!

Just sayin, but no, there is no need to reset the gain structure

Dra

Gadget wrote:

Just sayin, but no, there is no need to reset the gain structure

You might have to, depending on the output range compared to the meters. Haven't looked at the B'ger's output max in comparison.
If there is a change, then it would be consistant for each x-over gain level or amp setting, whichever you choose.

DRA

Gadget

Both are about the same gain wise... not enough difference to merit but easily done if one wanted to.. takes all of a few minutes and can be done onsite by using the xover gains on the Driverack...

mclir9

Awesome thanks for the info guys. I am a little confused on one aspect... When I set the Gain Structure originally, I did it from the FAQ here. So when I did it I "made sure all Driverack dynamic processors like GEQ, Compressor, Limiters, PEQ, AFS, SubSynth, etc are disabled." Now I have read that the Gain Structure should be done again if any EQ is introduced back into the setup. So when I turn everything back on listed above and turn on the external EQ's also, do I need to redo a Gain Structure?? If so, then why even bother turning everything off to begin with??

mclir9

Also Dra, when you run your Allen Heath live do you set the Main LR Faders to Unity??

Dra

There are many answers to that question (unity), and they're all correct within reason. I will normally set the mains to unity to start, then bring in each channel to the level I think I want (usually -6 or so, depending). This allows a good bit of leeway individually and collectively.

DRA

mclir9

I went ahead and did another Gain Structure with the Allen Heath and I am getting a significant difference in Gain. As properly performed where the Master Faders are set to where the mixer occasionally clips, my DRPA Input is also clipping occasionally (a little more often than the Mixer bouncing about every second). What do I do about this??

Dra

Mixer clipping? Do you mean pegged to the top red LED (+16)?

If you must run the Mixer "that" hot, you don't have enough rig. You could consider applying the compressor to control the input level, but use no gain boost. Just keep the DR out of clipping.

DRA

mclir9

No, this is setting the Gain Structure initially as instructed in Start Here the mixer will definitely not be run this hot, this is the extreme. But, my inputs on my DRPA are clipping and I know that's a no-no, any idea how to fix it. The instructions give a solution if the signal is not strong enough (press the -10 button in back of DRPA), but there is no solution if your inputs are clipping.

mclir9

I just dropped the input channel a little and the Master Fader slighlty until it stopped clipping the DRPA Input. Not perfect, but apparently this Allen Heath is alot more sensitive than the Behringer.

Dra

There's the rub. If the signal is hotter than the DR input can handle the only way to prevent that it to limit the input using a compressor, or self control. The key is know where to stop on the mixer's output meters.

DRA

mclir9

Well, for the most part I was still able to keep the signal way up on the meter, like the +9 just before the +16 clip, so as long as I keep my Master overall signal away from that I should be OK, I would think.

mclir9

Hey Dra, I see you have the AH MW 16:2 also, you didn't have this problem when you Gain Structured using the 260??

Dra

I don't mix R&R when I use my A&H. Typically convention type work with amature talent shows (a couple of acoustic guitars, a couple of vocal mics, a keyboard, and trax in some combination) thrown in. I never generate enough output voltage to even get close to -0- on the DR input, so I don't worry about it. I just made sure that te amps were structuredto the outputs of the DR.

DRA

Dra

I should have added that the 260 has input controls to reduce the actual input.

jthunderbass

As much as i love Analog audio. Get the Presonus! It WILL rock our world. Take your time, learn how it works, learn the gates and compressors. Check out my Studio Live thread. I learned alot just by asking questions. LOVE THAT BOARD! You will too!

Gadget

Awe JT he's moved on already.. he'll never know what he's missing..I know I'll never go back to analog mixing...or recording...the sound is just too dramatically different!

Dra

Moved on?

Gadget

As in "Has the Allen and Heath already"...moved on...

jthunderbass

lets put it this way. Think about this for a minute. I was at Sonshine Music fest in Wilmar this last week. They were using Avid Digidesign Venue Profiles on all but one stage. When one of the headlining bands played on the main stage, they had an Avalon tube preamp on the lead singers vocals. Lets think about that for a minute. THere using a $60k plus digital board that is supposed to be one of the best, but they still had to use an external tube preamp to get an acceptable quality vocal sound.
I do not have to do this with the SL 16.4.2, at a much lower price point.
At the metal stage they were doing the same desk and the vocals were horendous. I litteraly was inside the building for about 5 minutes and had to leaves cause the vocals were so bad. :shock:
Why is it that I can get much better vocal quality on the SL 16.4.2 and I do this part time, hoping to turn this into a career?
Its cause the good folks at Presonus rock!!!!
Dont get me wrong I still love analog audio, probably more and more every day that I use digital desks, but I really dont have a choice. Its getting to the point where you have to use digital.

Dra

Let's see... you were at the "metal" stage and the vocals weren't good?

Of coarse there is nothing like screaming "Jesus" with a devilish sounding vocal, but don't get me started on the "adrelalization" of "worship".

Gadget

Or the worship of generalization... just kidding... you know I had to do it...

Dennis

jthunderbass wrote:

lets put it this way. Think about this for a minute. I was at Sonshine Music fest in Wilmar this last week. They were using Avid Digidesign Venue Profiles on all but one stage. When one of the headlining bands played on the main stage, they had an Avalon tube preamp on the lead singers vocals. Lets think about that for a minute. THere using a $60k plus digital board that is supposed to be one of the best, but they still had to use an external tube preamp to get an acceptable quality vocal sound.
I do not have to do this with the SL 16.4.2, at a much lower price point.
At the metal stage they were doing the same desk and the vocals were horendous. I litteraly was inside the building for about 5 minutes and had to leaves cause the vocals were so bad. :shock:
Why is it that I can get much better vocal quality on the SL 16.4.2 and I do this part time, hoping to turn this into a career?
Its cause the good folks at Presonus rock!!!!
Dont get me wrong I still love analog audio, probably more and more every day that I use digital desks, but I really dont have a choice. Its getting to the point where you have to use digital.

The Avid Profile is a widly accepted console. You dont suppose the singer or the soundguy factored into the poor vocal sound? I see a lot of Profiles on tour. I dont see any Presonus SL on tour.

Gadget

My experience is the driver is everything in this game... When I attended shows at the casino, same system always...usually an Avid SC48...90% sounded like ass.. a few were beautiful and the rest were just ok... exact same system same console different driver...clearly some had NO clue...