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Mains, Monitors and effects loop

ivfdadivfdad Posts: 6
edited September 2012 in 200 Series Connectivity
I am new to this forum so I'm really looking forward to your comments.

I have a PreSonus 24.4.2 and a Driverack 260 for use in School Board meetings. It's used for other things but I will stay on topic. Prior to this board and driverack feedback was a huge issue when the school board decided to take its meetings to school gyms or cafeitoriums so more of the public and attend. The driverack worked flawlessly even though it took a bit of tweaking to get my Yorkville speakers dialed in. BTW, Yorkville will not tell you how the crossover. It's a secret.

However the speakers where facing the audience and the board could not hear so we bought another amps and some JBL speakers for monitors so the board members can hear.

I want to maintain a L/R image AND have the driverack for the monitors too. I know I could use mono on the mains and mono on the monitors and all is happy but I loose my L/R (stereo) which is important because during presentations they have music and short films.

I was thinking that I could configure the 3rd and 4th out for the monitors but I would loose separate fader control for the monitors and all volume would be from the gain on the amp itself. So I'm wondering if it's possible to use the 3rd and 4th out on the 260 in the effects loop to regain my fader control on my board.

Confusing I know so let me give you my signal path.
Up to 18 mics into the PreSonus 24.4.2 board. L & R into the Driverack 260. Out of the Driverack on outputs 1 & 2 to my Crown 2002 amp and to the mains. Out of the Driverack outputs 3 & 4 back into the board on new channel and feed the monitor amp only via Aux out and not to the mains. This I hope would gain me fader control on the monitors and keep the mains as they were with left and right (stereo) imaging.

Thanks everyone,
Edward

Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Which yorkville speakers?
    How many?
    On tri-pods?

    DRA
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    How many board members and how big an area do they take up?

    DRA
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Sorry for all these staggered questions.
    Dang :evil: ! I forgot my question....
    OHHH! Are you using a computer to control the 260 at the meetings?

    DRA
  • We have 14 board members, 2 additional wireless mics, and 1 or 2 stationary audience mics for public comment. The board members typically sit on stage so they are up high with the two Yorkville E12's on tri-pods in front of the stage one on the left and one on the right pointing out. The board members are probably 40ish feet end to end so one end can't hear the board members on the other end when they speak and can't hear when there is public comment.

    The new JBL JRX112M will be stage left and stage right (more than likely because we haven't used them yet). Short of buying another DBX 260 as I was trying to keep from having to spend any more money from the school district, I was hoping to use the DBX 260 for both the mains and the monitors.

    I hope this helps.
  • Oh Sorry, not using the computer to run the board. I like the tactile touch of using the board. The computer is recording the meeting as required in the Board Bylaws.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    I asked about the computer running the 260. If one is available it is sooo much better.

    I'll follow-up shortly.

    DRA
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    You can use the setup as you intend, but I think that there is no real reason to require stereo for the films that might be shown. If you are dead set on doing it though, there are many ways to make it functional.

    Get the E12's out as forward as you can and/or as far apart (past the stage walls / corners) as you can, you can angle them in as needed to reach the center most audience members (but just barely).
    The JBL's don't need to be very loud for the board, just to help augment what is going on. I would consider just running a standard monitor mix through an aux. Can't a GEQ be assigned internally to an aux?

    I still recommend mono.

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Hi,
    Sorry for the late entry, but I've been in Canada fishing.. (it was slower than usual but still caught over 128 Walleyes in 4 days! :shock: :shock: :mrgreen: )

    Here's what I would do...(I have the Presonus board as well) Use the Driverack and flatten the E12's and JBL's as best you can. Use the Driverack as a FOH controller in stereo, and transfer the EQ curve you got using the Auto EQ to the Presonus GEQ for the monitors.

    I'm also on the Presonus forum and am an SL power user, so if you have any questions about the board I can help there as well.
  • Thanks Gadget, but I must say I'm very jealous of the fishing. Were you in a tourney?

    I want to make sure I understand you correctly and to basically run through in my mind what I can do here. This board and driverack 260 are both new to me as I just started here so I hope I don't sound too stupid.

    To understand are you agreeing that I can go out my board mains, into the 260, out the 260 on output channel 1 & 2, into my crown amp for FOH mains. Then on channel 3 & 4 of the drive rack back into my AUX in of my board and out the AUX out?

    Basically my boss want to be able to maintain the L/R stereo image, and also feed the monitors all using the same driverack 260. I suggested mono to the mains and mono to the monitor but he wants stereo. He was also going to just us the crown amps as the only way to adjust the volume of FOH and monitors separately. I want to regain fader control for the monitors and not use the amps as the main way to change the volume for both separately.

    Cheers,
    Edward
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    I haven't even wet a line in over 2 years, so nope, not a tourney... I have a very dear friend that has wanted to take me to Canada fishing for many years, this was the year that it happened. I could have fished here in northern Minnesota for years and never even caught any where near the number I c=aught o0n the wurst day... in a year...

    My friend has (on numerous occasions) caught over 100 walleyes per hour with only 2 people in the boat! He calls it "At will fishing" meaning you catch fish at will...no effort, simply drop a line.. catch a Walleye.. first night it took a whole 20 seconds to catch the first keeper walleye.

    Oh and we were fishing with dead (packed in salt) minnows :shock:

    To understand are you agreeing that I can go out my board mains, into the 260, out the 260 on output channel 1 & 2, into my crown amp for FOH mains. Then on channel 3 & 4 of the drive rack back into my AUX in of my board and out the AUX out?

    No....

    Take your monitors, do the auto EQ and flatten them as best you can (see the viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2410 thread in the FAQ section). Now call up the Auto EQ you just did and see what the EQ curve looks like... transfer that EQ curve to the monitor outputs of the Presonus SL mixer EQ's.

    Hopefully you are using the VSL software and hooking a computer up to the SL mixer, this will simplify things greatly. I am using that and an Ipad to remotely (anywhere in the house, or stage) control the FOH system and the stage monitors! The latest version of VSL (V1.6...) offers SMAART RTA integration behind the GEQ's!

    You can label the channels, the Auxes and the sub masters and recall them at will! It will remember EXACTLY where you were when you stored, including EVERY parameter! EQ. channel strip setup, and every other thing you had when stored!
  • So really the only thing I'm doing is copying the GEQ curve from the DBX to the GEQ on the board to get a flat responce. Then only use the board GEQ for the monitors and allow the 260 for the FOH mains?

    So I'm feeling a little stupid right now because I think I left out a very important part of why I'm using the DBX 260. The biggest use of the DBX 260 for our needs is the feedback suppression, and the only thing my boss is concerned with. The DBX's live feedback suppression that continuously adjusts the feedback and this is why I want the mains and monitors going through the DBX. The room dynamics and people using the mics are ever changing. We've started with 350 people in the audience and ended up with 50 by the time the night was done. So at the end of the night, as long as I can keep feedback out of the meeting the board members will be happy.

    Now I just have to teach people to quit swallowing the mic when they speak. I was thinking perhaps a wind sock the size of the volley ball. :D

    I know buying another DBX 260 will solve my problems but I'm trying to utilize the additional outputs of the 260 and save the school district some $$$.

    Thanks for all you help.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    ivfdad wrote:
    Now I just have to teach people to quit swallowing the mic when they speak. I was thinking perhaps a wind sock the size of the volley ball. :D

    That is actually what you want if you want to lessen the chance of feed back.

    We're going backwards here, but I would still advocate that you go mono. I can think of NO reason to need stereo for your set-up. If you have other programs that NEED stereo, set up a new preset, load it when needed.

    DRA
  • DennisDennis Posts: 801
    Dra wrote:
    ivfdad wrote:
    I can think of NO reason to need stereo for your set-up.

    His boss wants stereo....thats a pretty good reason. Since one driverack won't do all his boss wants, his boss will have to spend more money.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    I think his boss only requires no feedback. He said that HE wanted to keep the stereo image. IF I recall correctly. :mrgreen:
    You are correct, for stereo and AFS / FBX ore money is needed.

    I would be willing to turn loose of an DBX AFS 224 for about $.50 on the dollar.

    DRA
  • DennisDennis Posts: 801
    ivfdad wrote:
    Basically my boss want to be able to maintain the L/R stereo image, and also feed the monitors all using the same driverack 260. I suggested mono to the mains and mono to the monitor but he wants stereo.

    DRA. this is what I read
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Somebody must had edited that out of my internect connection. Yeah, I read on CNN that there has been problems with data packets being lost east of the Mississippi. 8) That must be what happened.



    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    If the system is tuned properly, found and set up flat (monitors also) I have found the AFS to be no longer necessary...After all, I was getting 121 dB out of the monitors and I could literally take the mic and point it into the horn a foot away and have NO feedback :wink::wink:

    Who needs AFS...
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