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Gain help

billdawsonbilldawson Posts: 5
edited November 2012 in dbx Archive General Discussion
Hi

I'm a new member to this forum, and I'd firstly like to extend my apologies for raising this old chestnut again but I really need the advice of some grown-ups! I've had a 260 for sometime but never learnt how to use it, but I am now.
I have been diligently following Gadgets wise words for setting gains but here's my problem. I'm putting pink noise through a mixer channel (Spirit FX16) into the Drivrack but the high signal is pushing the meters much more than the low. I have all the EQ's flat, all the limiters off and the Xover gains at 0. Xover set for a simple biamped passive stereo set up.
As pink noise is meant to be equal across the frequency spectrum it's left me a little confused as to weather this is normal or not? Is it because I'm using an app on an iPad to generate the pink noise? (RTA by Studio 6 Digital) I have tried to get the CD track recommended by Gadget but the link doesn't take me to it. I have also tried other strips on the desk and also the 2 track input.
Any advice would be greatly welcome as its driving me mental!! :shock:

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    DraDra Posts: 3,777
    The x-over gains are used to balance the energy on each side of the x-over frequency point. Since each band is of equal energy and there are MANY more frequencies (usually) on the high side tan the low side the meters react accordingly, showing a higher level on the high's side. Simply reduce the gain of the highs, or increase the low's gain (most do this) until the meters match. But beware this is for pink noise only. If you use this procedure while playing music the results will not be useful.

    DRA
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    billdawsonbilldawson Posts: 5
    Thanks for the quick reply Dre, so would you advise me to leave the levels as is till I can balance thing with music through the system? I really don't want to start altering Xover gains as I know this messes with Xover frequencies and I'm already struggling as it is! I've also set up PEQ's before the limiters so I can flatten my set up once it stops raining and I can get it in the garden. Would you recommend linking these or leaving them unlinked?
    Thanks for your patience and sorry for the bonehead questions :lol:
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    billdawsonbilldawson Posts: 5
    My apologies DRA, I appear to have misspelt your name in my reply. Sorry if I may of offended you. It was just a typo caused by a bloke of a certain age not having his glasses on! :oops:
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    DraDra Posts: 3,777
    DRA = my initials. Don't sweat it. :)

    If using the 260 for FOH most will link the 9-band PEQs. You are aware that you CAN'T use the Auto EQ if the pre-x-over EQ is the PEQ, right? It has to be the GEQ. It would be really great if you could, but that would take a huge amount of processing power (and some technology that doesn't exist :mrgreen: ).

    You DO NOT want to use the meters to balance the levels when using music, because music IS unbalanced by nature. You are using the pink noise to develop your gain structure. Go ahead and increase the gain on the Low's. If the x-over point is affected by the paths overlapping, that can be fixed by giving some separation between the HPF of one and the LPF of the other by a couple of Hz. Using LR24 filters, the affect will not be that great unless you get up in the 9-12 db difference.

    You've not list the gear (amps and speakers) that you will be using. That is normally helpful.

    Are you using the Driveware and a computer to set up and control the 260?


    DRA
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    billdawsonbilldawson Posts: 5
    Hi thanks DRA.

    I have a linked GEQ set first in the 260s signal chain, followed by the Xover, set as per Gadgets set up guide. I'm not over sure what's after that as I'm away at work at the moment but there is an unlinked PEQ and a limiter at the end of each signal chain. I'm also using Driveware to edit the 260. Power amps are Crown CE2000s, tops are Turbosound TXD151 and subs are 18in Peavey at the moment, though I do plan to make my own as per the Fane enclosures suggested by Gadget.
    My issue was that I cant get the sub meters on the 260 into the red while pushing pink noise through the desk which is leaving me unable to set any clip limits, as I can't make it clip :?.
    My worry is that i'll have to whack up the low Xover gain to do this that it will sound pants when I come to use it for real and I'll be back to square 1.

    The irony of all this hair tearing is that I was advised to get the 260 as an all in 1 plug it, pink it and play it wonder box! I'm driven on to do this as I want a really nice sounding little set up. Sometimes I just wish I knew everything..... Or absolutely nothing! :cry:
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    DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Wonder box? Yes, you are not alone in buying the sales pitch. A great tool, but not a wonder box.

    Personally I would link the post x-over PEQs because those are primarily used for speaker correction, not room compensation.

    DRA
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    DraDra Posts: 3,777
    I just set up your amps and there is actually a small decrease in the low gain setting.
    Theoretically, if your mixer output is metering -0-, then the driverack should be metering -0-, if it is not then adjust the Input Master in the Driverack to match the -0- (be sure to do both sides). As far as I know, you can use the channel or master in the Input mixer.

    Then, what are the output meters doing?
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    GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    The Binkster site is no more, but I have located another tone generator/noise generator. From the [tone] dropdown menu select "pink Noise" and then hit 'play'...on the player. They have provided a CD burner as well so you can make a CD...
    http://www.nch.com.au/tonegen/index.html

    I have provided this link in the 'Start Here' thread as well..
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