please some help on config DBX Driverack pa+ on JBL +TECNARE

xprod2012

Hello dear friends , I have a small system from JBL MARQUIS SERIES + 2 subs TECNARE W-BIN horn loaded with 2 B&C 18TBX100-8 each boxe! we play some small gigs/parties indoors 300/500 m2 300-1000 persons , my system is :


FOH mix : Allen & Heath Mixwizard WZdx16:2

CROSSOVER: DBX DRIVERACK PA+

EQs: DBX DDP
+ DBX 2231EQ

AMPS: 2X NEXT MA3200 ( specs 2x1600w 2ohms 2x1200w 4ohms/ bridge 3200w 4ohms) Class H
1X SYNQ 3k6 ( specs 2x1800w 4 ohms / 2x1050w 8ohms Class D digital amp)
2X QSC USA 1300 ( 2x650w rms 4Ohms/ Bridge 2000W rms 4 Ohms)
1X Australian Monitor AM 1600 ( 2x 830w rms 4 Ohms / Bridge 2200W rms 4Ohms)

TOPS : 6X JBL Marquis Series MS115 ( drivers all update to 2226h 600w rms / original 2032h 300w rms)

Subs : 2X JBL MP418SP ( 2241h 600W rms - the original crown amp of the MP418SP was by-passed , I use them with external amps/ crossovers to get more headroom.

2X TECNARE L1818 W-bin Double 18 horn loaded bass system - loaded with 2 B&C 18TBX100-8 each L1818 has 2400W rms / 4800w rms Program each!



I have some questions , I know the amp NEXT MA3200 ( 2X 1200w rms 4Ohms ) is underpowering the 2 TECNARE L1818 in Stereo , but in the last gig with near 1000 persons in 400 m2 room they could shake the dancefloor , but I want to know if I use the 2 NEXT MA3200 in bridge 3200w rms 4Ohms 1 Next for each TECNARE L1818 is a better way for me? or is this much power for them?


Can You help me the crossover points for tos JBL MS115 and the 2 TECNARE L1818?


Last gig I used the preset JBL MP415 for the tops and used the preset JBL SRX728S for the subs , was the best near speakers config I think the DRPA+ had... I had config the compressor and limiter by ear , and seeing the amps clip! I had 1:2:1 on the compressor and the amps were config to 1.4v input.



Thank you very much , and Happy christmas !


sorry my poor english I am from Portugal.

Gadget

Hi, first off that's 1200 RMS, 2400 program and 4800 PEAK (as in milliseconds long occasional peaks) power rating, meaning that you would be good if you had 4800 watts available to a cabinet or 2400 watts per driver, so a bridged MA3200 @ 3200 watts @ 4 ohms (what the cab would be I would hope) would be LESS than the program rating, so yes you can bridge the amp per speaker...

Your still low on power though so I'd set up like this:
Subs HPF 40hz BW18
LPF crossover @ 100hz LR24
so the subs go from 40hx BW18 to 100hz LR24 and the tops go from 100hz LR24 up
(with the technare subs..

I have to ask you don't use this all together.. as in at the same time do you?

xprod2012

Thank you very much for your answer.


About the Tecnare L1818 I think they are at least 2000Watts rms per cab, each driver B&C 18TBX100 has on its specs: 1200Watts AES/ 1000Watts RMS - and 2400Watts AES Program each B&C 18TBX100 , so I think this Subs are at least 2000w rms to 2400watts aes each sub, and the peak should be 9600watts per cab, this sub are indeed very deep and loud!
Am I wrong with this thoughts?

I have too, another pair of JBL ASB6128V , which are 2400 W AES (9600 W peak), 2 hrs per cab , and they work more or less in the same league, so I don t want to believe that the Tecnare L1818 are only 4800 w peak?


About the question , of using the hole pa at the same time, I usually use 4X JBL MS115 + 2 dual 18 bins ,

What are the best config for this?

one NEXT MA3200 Bridge per sub and can I put the digital SYNQ 3K6 stereo for the 4X JBL MS115?

What are the settings you recomend for the crossover points and for amps voltage input , and for the compressor/limiter ratio (I have 1:2:1) Is this good?


Another thing, in the last gig the 2X tecnare L1818 were putting out the Kick from the bass only 10 meters away from their front, is there any away to config the crossover to put the kick from the bass immediately after the bass bins? and the kick was more and more intense backwards from the bins? why this happened?


Thank you very much , for your help.

Gadget

I didn't say 4800 PEAK I said 4800 PROGRAM... The numbers go like this:

RMS= 24 hours a day, 7 days a week will do this till the cones fall apart...

Program= 2X the RMS value, this means that the speakers can usually stand this power for typical rock and roll music with a 1/5th duty cycle when you start to get upwards of 1/3 power (no amp can do even 50% duty cycle) you will move to the next category...

Peak= only should be allowed to do this occasionally...for microseconds at a time and even then this is what we call headroom and the AVERAGE should be maintained near program...

The subs orientation may help with this, set them up so the mouths are laid on the floor together to form a horn.. Most folded horn subs throw farther, but their position to the walls is also going to cause directionality and lobbing.. check out this :

http://webphysics.davidson.edu/Applets/ ... fault.html

Move the red balls around (they represent subs) try them apart, together, next to the walls, in the middle of the room, in the corner and note the sound waves.. the dark is the waves and the light or lack of black represents cancellations, or Lobbing. This program doesn't predict standing waves but this one does:

http://www.mcsquared.com/metricmodes.htm

Here are a couple of other important articles with things to know about:

http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/a ... omodes.htm

http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes ... lation.cfm

I gave you a setup for your system...the problem is the patterns.. the tops have 85X85 degree horizontal/vertical coverage... wherever the HF horn patterns intersect, they will interact and cancellations and other anomalies will be present across the coverage area, and the speakers you have spray sound all over the place!

Many speakers have a 90X40 HF pattern, those you can stack one upside down on the other (so the horns couple)and with a little tilting get away with this.. and this might be the best route for you as well..

xprod2012

And about the crossover compressor/limiter ? 1:2:1 good? About the gain of the compressor and limiter ?

Compressor= -__ db?
limiter HF= -10db??or what?
limiter LF= -5db??or what?


Amps for subs TECNARE (2X NEXT MA3200)= max gain? (0db)? or less in Bridge mode( 3200Watts rms @ 4Ohms)

Amp for the 4X JBL MS115 SYNQ 3K6( stereo 2x1800Watts rms @ 4Ohms Class D)


If you can help with the compressor/limiter, I would thank you very much.

I work with EQs in the DBX 2231 , which is linked between the DBX DRPA+ and the Allen & Heath Mixwizard WZ 16:2 , - Am I doing rigth? I don t mess with EQ from DRPA+ because is more slow..

And about the Sub-harmonic Synthesizer? should leave , bypass ?


Regards Jorge from Portugal

Gadget

What are you doing with the system? (primary purpose)

xprod2012

Normally we do sound for DJs , house and tecno.. the signal comes from a pioneer DJM800 to the A&H Mixwizard wz dx2( xlr to xlr) come from DJM to A&H channel 15 and 16 EQs flat..

About the pan L&R of the channels 15/16 what to do? I was told to pan the level of ch15 to the left and then to pan the level of the ch16 to the rigth ? that is rigth? why someone told me this way?


regards Jorge Carneiro.

xprod2012

Any one ? could help please.


Merry Christmas For You All .


Regards Jorge - Portugal.

Gadget

Here is where the difficulty comes in...you CANNOT depend on the limiters to protect your speakers.. THEY WILL NOT DO THAT, and can make things WORSE! The ONLY thing the limiter will do well is protect from an OOPS event!

And compressing already heavily compressed pre recorded music??? This is a bad idea as well..

What you need to do is use the gain structure method (see the START HERE thread .. and realize when the amps are about to clip and stop turning things up any more!!!