3-Way with 2 amps???

14Kizzle

Got a quick question. I'm trying to avoid buying a 3rd amp right now, so will the set-up I'm about to describe work with the Driverack PA+????

I have a 4000 watt amp! I plan to run the mids on channel 1 (a pair of 8ohms speakers linked together now at 4ohms). Then run my pair of high cabinets (8ohms, now at 4ohms), on channel 2 of the amp. This will have me using one output jack on the driverack for mids, and one for highs! So lets say I used the Left output for each.........would this cause me to lose the pan/pot effects on many recorded songs? Example: Someone talking in the left speaker and another person answering in the right speaker. If this holds true that the stereo efx will be lost, is there a work-around outside of having a 3rd amp and extra speaker cables to route? Would an Y-connector or 2 to 1 be an option???

By the way, my 2nd amp is used for my sub cabs!

You sound pros help me out! Your advice will be appreciated!
Thanks in advance!

Dra

It will be very helpful if you list the speakers you have, how you are using them, and why you want to use them that way. (a "Peavey horn cab" is not useful. When I hear that I assume the old giant butt that was used with the FH-1 and the MB-1.) Give the functionality of all the components in each cab. (for example the x-over in the SP2 is fried.)

DRA

14Kizzle

Yes, I have two of the old Peavey MF1-X horns. Unlike these pictured, mine are in mint condition and have been renovated with new crossovers and diaphragms. They're now rated at 600w program (1200w peak). (The pic link I had of the horn cabs was removed from the site I linked it from.....so the image is now gone)

These are the ones that I want to runs as mids (Peavey SP2-BX). Although they also have horns for the highs, they don't sounds as crisp & clear as my dedicated horn cabs! Rated at 1000w program (2000 peak) at 8ohms.

These are my sub cabs (Peavey SP-FHBX). I run a pair of these on the 1st amp. These subs are rated at 1600w program and 3200w peak.

Dra

Those horn boxes may be rated at 300/600/1200, but only the x-over, not the horn itself.

Gadget

i would have to advise against that very strongly... your sound will be miles ahead NOT using them.. sorry but that's the way sound is... You add those and your going to have sonic chaos all throughout the HF range, skewing the sonic landscape, and smearing the imaging...

Dra

Do the SP2's have bi-amp inputs?

14Kizzle

Yes, the Sp2's do have bi-amp switches/ports.
I value everyone opinion, but those horn cabs sound real good and crisp! Also the SP2's have horn tweeter in them, but I have noticed them cut-out for a few seconds then come back on when I play them for long periods of time and running them a little of half of what the program is. The amp never clips when this happens and the woofers play fine! So when I add the horn cabs....they do the job!
This is yet another reason I wanted to put them on their saparate channel of one side of the amp! This would allow me to adjust the volume to the highs only!

While we're on the topic of sound, I have a BBE Sonic Maximizer with Subwoofer control on it! Before getting the driverack, I used it to enhance the sound! Should I chain the BBE with the Driverack PA+ or toss it out of the signal chain? I do think it would be overkill since it basically works as a 2-way crossover! What say you??

Gadget

toss it.. eliminate the crossover networks and bi-amp the SP's and you'll likely get rid of the dropouts...

Dra

The MF-1's used the 22xxxx series driver. The same (basic) as used in the SP2. If you put in new diaphragms, they are the current model. Same as the SP2.

I agree with Gadget. Bi-amp the SP2 cabs first. If you are not happy, bypass the x-over altogether in the MF-1 and bi-amp in conjunction with 15" low bi-amp input. Eliminate the horn in the SP2.

You used "crisp". I bet what you hear is the MF-1 horn producing more mid-range frequencies. Those x-overs (unless you changed them) let the horn get down to 500hz. The x-over in the SP2 is 1800hz. That is almost 2 full octaves. The root cause of you "un-crispness" could be the 15" (4" voice coil) speaker poorly reproducing 500hz-1800hz. You could also consider "fixing" the "un-crispness" with a PEQ. It could be that you just like those frequencies hyped more than most.

DRA

14Kizzle

Sorry for the delayed response! I've been working on my regular job quite a bit!

So let me ask a question to make sure I grasp the tips mentioned! Now if I were to take the old MF-1 horn cabs out of the line-up, that would leave me with just a pair of SP2's, and a pair of Sub cabs. So you guys recommend that I bi-amp the SP2's, right? So coming from the Driver rack, exactly which outs should I be using? 2way or 3way! How many cables do you estimate should be running to the speakers doing it this way? I'm just asking to make sure we're on the same page!

Also I bought the official RTA mic and can't seem to get close with it! I know it doesn't do everything for you! Tweaking, plus "know how" is a MUST! I just notice that my speakers have a loud idle sound when nothing is playing! That sound you hear when you turn all levels to max, but not playing anything (white noise). When I'm hearing this, my amp levels are only at 30-40% So this makes me think something is set wrong???

Also with my luck, NONE of my models were in the set-up wizard! I know some say the wizard was market strategy, selling point, or basically a preset starting point for you to season your sound to your taste! That's understood, I know it will not do all the work for me! So I matched every model that was listed in the wizard to what I have by specs. It got me in the ballpark, but the RTA mic doesn't seem to be earning it's keep with me! I've placed it on the floor, on a mic stand, in the middle of two speakers, and in front of just one stack! It keeps telling me to turn-up the levels to the amp way past my comfort zone!

In all fairness, I've only tested the mic & driver rack inside of my basement! Saturday I have an outside event, so I don't know what kind of levels RTA mic will give me! So all advice is again appreciated!

Dra

Bi-amping the top cabs can be tricky and risky. You will want to make a patch panel (or panels) to make connections foolproof. For example:
F-XLR panel input that is connected to the Left input of the Driverack.
(Driverack set up in a 2x6 config using dual mono GEQ)
Left Hi output to Amp 1 channel 1 (or A).
Left Mid output to Amp 1 channel 2 (or .
Left Lo output to Amp 2 Channel 1 (or A). Either paralleled or Bridged, depending on set-up.
Hardwire from Amp 1 binding posts to 2 panel mount 4 pin female Speakon following Peavey's SP'2 Bi-amp wiring guide.
Build a NL-4 (male to male) 4-cond speaker cable, length to suit, for the SP-2's.
Hardwire from Amp 2 binding posts to 2 panel mount 2-pin female Speakons for the subs
Turn down the Mid amp attenuator completely when first verifying the connections. Better yet, also turn down the mid filter gain in the DR to ~ (infinity). If the highs come out the Mid speak you are flipped somewhere.

You'll need:
1 XLR cable from the mixer (or snake) to the Driverack (whether you use a snake or not).
3 XLR cables from the DR to the amps. (or 3 channels of the snake + 3 cables if you go that route).
2 NL-4 cables
2 NL-2 cables

Don't worry about the Wizard and trying to "match" specs. Set up a custom amp and speaker config. Dual Mono GEQ
Custom - Bi-amp tops
Custom - Subs (stereo)
Custom - Hi amp
Custom - Mid amp
Custom - Lo amp

I believe there is an SP-2 Bi-amp set-up thread in the Start here or FAQ section.

DRA

Dra

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1080

14Kizzle

Thanks a million for the step by step advice and taking time to explain!
It was almost a new language and the link was definately advanced language, but very in depth!

I bought expensive 12ga speaker cables a month ago, which were 4 cables @100feet. However I bought them with the 1/4 (TRS) jacks on all ends. So it looks like I need them modified with speakon connections, huh? If I do in fact need to modify them, I just may reduce the length to 50ft. and turn 4 into 8 cables. This would save the bank and I should still have plenty of cable for speaker placement at most venues??

Decisions....decisions!

Thanks Again!!