DRPA+ and KW153 and KW181 in MONO

Polabear

Hi Guys!

I'm in real tight quarters so I would like to know how to set up my DRPA+ with mixer out of Left Out Mono to DRPA+ Left Input. Out of Left High Output to KW153. Out of Left Low Output on DRPA+ to KW181. Later at the gig I would daisy chain another KW153 and a KW181 to the highs and lows. (153's together and 181's together) I figured out how to set the crossover frequencies but I just want a mono setup. Would you please give me a step by step guide so I can get this right?

In addition I would like to add the monitors from the Aux out on the mixer to the Right input of the DRPA+ and out of the DRPA+ Right Mid to go to the monitor amp, ideally. I tried doing that all day but it always wanted to see another speaker to "Balance" and would not finish! I know I'm not doing something right somewhere as I saw that it could be done using some JBL's in another posting I read. I have to set up in a very small space, don't get all day to do it and I'm slow moving with a back disability, so if you could help me out with a step by step guide, I would be eternally grateful! (well, maybe not that long!) How about for a long long time?

Dra

I can't address the "balancing" feature, because I don't have a "+". I think I have seen Gadget respond that to advance when it asks for a speaker that doesn't exist... press NEXT. Whether that skips that step or exits, I don't know. Give it a whirl. If that doesn't work... balance it by ear.
If I had to guess, I would say that the balancing feature is based on different speaker sensitivities and different amp gains and outputs. You probably don't have those issues,

DRA

PS - The thread you read about this subject can be followed to achieve what you want. As long as you set up a stereo 3-way (2x6) you can use any output for any speaker (except the subs can't be assigned to the high outputs because there is no LPF (in the DR)). Put the monitors on the lows, if you wish. Then the balancing for hi & mid would be done for you, before you have to exit out.

Polabear

Thanks for the reply Dra. So I would go into the crossover first and set up a 2 x 6 speaker setup and do the cross over points then go through the setup? The balancing is done when I pink noise the system. It always looks for another speaker like i'm setting up stereo. Which 2 x 6 setup should I use? Sorry for the confusion but this shouldn't be so difficult. Do I mute the monitors before I pink the mains and then how do I do a separate pink noise on the monitors? The crossover and the balancing are my main problems along with being partially brain dead! I was wanting to be able to set up this mono system with just one main speaker and one sub woofer and 2 monitors due to limited space. The setup process doesn't want to let me do that it seems.

Dra

Now you are changing the problem to L then R pinking. No need to mute during this.
Again I don't have a "+", so the balancing procedure is foreign to me. For doing the right side (monitor), the mic should be at the vocal mic's height and location, but pointing at the monitor.

DRA

Polabear

Thanks for the reply Dra! Good to know to keep mains and monitors on when pinking the speakers. I'm still unclear on what to do to get past the balancing step and make sure that mains and monitors are both pinked. I've tried the next button but it gives me the message that balancing wasn't done. It just makes it unclear as to what exactly I have accomplished! Can anyone else reply that understands exactly what to do with the DRPA+ in this type of setup? It would be great if someone can help. Should I keep both mains and monitors turned up when I do the feedback filters? It seems that my main problems are knowing the correct sequence of events and what to do at each step when it comes to balancing, EQing and feedback suppression so that I know I'm achieving the desired results!
Thank you for responding to my frustration if you can.

Dra

Try this.
Start from scratch...
1 - Enter the set-up Wizard.
2 - Select Stereo
3 - Select Stereo (not linked) GEQ
4 - Select main speakers - Custom - Bi-amp (if you do not select bi-amp you can gain access to the mid section.)
5 - Select sub speakers - Custom (stereo)
6 & 7 - Select amps - Custom (The flow chart in the manual does not mention these steps, just speaker level adjustments. Not sure why. Just continue though.)
8 - Load new preset.
9 - See if it will let you store the preset at this point. Name it whatever you want and note the program #. If it will, great. if it won't, Next on out.
10 - You should be on the Preset page. If you are you should see the program (preset) # and the name you assign it.
11 - Look at the routing. You should L & R each (individually) connected to a G in a box (that is the GEQ module). "L" into a "G in a box" above the "R" going into it's "G in a box". 2 "G"s in 2 boxes, not one big box with one "G" in it.
12- The next boxes will be big (combined / linked) boxes, until you reach the x-over box (module). It should be larger than any of the other boxer and have a single "X" in it.
13 - There should be 3 paired branches going to PEQ > Limiter > L&R Hi, L&R Mid, & L&R Lo.
14 - If you see that, you are ready to set up your x-over filters.


You should have it from there. Be sure to store it when done.

DRA

Polabear

Thanks Dra! I will try this out today and let you know how it goes! I'm determined to make this work so that I can get feedback control and EQ working for the monitors. I know that the DRPA+ is a great tool if I can just learn to use it right! So far it's been kind of humbling... :oops:

Polabear

Hey Dra!
I put the KW153's on the left high crossover, the KW181's on the left mid crossover and the monitors on the right low crossover. Subs are handling out to 75Hz LR24, the tops are handling LR24 75Hz to out. The low crossover right feeds the monitors from 60Hz LR 24 to 15 KHZ LR24. Everything is looking good meter wise, at performance level but I have one concern. Each of the output meters on the DRPA+ are up so high that the "no more headroom" red lights are staying on most of the time! Would I go into the crossover and lower the output values there to get the input signals to the DRPA+ under control? I didn't get a chance to try out that theory because I had to tear down before I could try it. All of the other gain structure looks fine. Nothing too hot except the DRPA+ input levels.

Am I on the right track or is it something else? :roll:
Thanks again for all of your help! :!:

P.S. What type settings would you use for compression and limiting?

Dra

DRPA+ input meters in the red means too much signal going in from the mixer. Where are your output meters on the board?
I don't recommend using the compressor (usually), but you may have to to avoid clipping the input. If you do, don't add gain, just compress the high side.

DRA

Polabear

Hi Dra,

The output meters on the board are riding at less than unity and lower with music played through the mixer. All of the other levels are at unity. Would I go into the crossover on the DRPA+ and adjust the levels for High (KW153's), Mid (KW181's) and Low (monitors) if all my other levels are fine in the gain structure? I'm not boosting anything above unity but all the peak meters on the DRPA+ are banging! :? I noticed that each of the frequency ranges (high, mid ,lows) have compressor adjustments, as well as limiters and after the individual speaker ranges, it has compressor adjustments for "LR" and limiter. Should I be using the limiters? I know the QSC's have them but should I use the DRPA+'s as well? You never use any compression on the mains? I've never used it on the mains but I do use it on drums and vocals some.
Thanks

Dra

Do you have access to a sine generator or recorded sine tones? And also a multi-meter?

I never noticed before that the input meters on the DRPA+ are before the GEQ, AFS, and compressor (I agree with you on whole mix compression. That why I said in your case... to try to keep the input from clipping.). So you can't really use the meters to reference what the modules do to the input level.

With the speakers disconnected, where on the mixer's LEDs does the DRPA+ flash the word "CLIP"?
I asked about the equipment above to test the voltage output of the mixer at different LED readings.

There is no compression on the outputs, only on the input side (actually pre-x-over) and limiters on the ind. outputs. They (comp & lim) are "together" in a module, but that is just for ease of use. Limiter use on speakers with limiters is really a matter of preference and degree of protection needed. You may more to "limit" them before they limit themselves, or have a fail safe in case they on-board fails.

DRA

Polabear

Hi Dra ,

Thanks for the quick response!
I don't have a sine wave generator or recordings of one or a multimeter. There is nothing else in the chain (mixer, 231 EQ on monitors mostly to convert T/S plug to XLR to go to DRPA+) that is clipping. That's why I thought I should reduce the output from the crossover low/mid/high to bring down the input level. From what you say, it sounds like that wouldn't help because the meters are pre crossover. I'll have to hook it all up again and see what works. It seems strange that the inputs would have such load. I definitely don't want to run it like that! I tried switching the input sensativity on the DRPA+ but it just made hissing noise from not enough signal. I will try some different input sounds plugged into the board also. I had run an adaptor from my headphone outs on my Roland 2480with recorded music into a channel on the mixer so I know that signal was getting pre-amped twice (once by the headphone amp and another by the mixer although the output meters on the board were bouncing a lot lower than unity even on PFL. I didn't have to turn up the sensativity knob on the mixer channel at all to get sound so I know it was a hot signal. I'm wondering now if the hot input signal from the recorder is the problem. I wish I could leave the PA set up so it wouldn't be such an ordeal to test it out and I have limited time to do it but I will have to set it up again and figure this out before we play our next gig for sure! I'm starting to miss the "good 'ol days" when I didn't have a DRPA+! I do like the crossover feature though as well as the auto EQ and the anti-feedback filters. I will figure this out and you help is appreciated!

Dra

There is a link to a "Bink's" cd for download in the FAQ section (not the tab above) that Gadget created, but I heard somewhere that the link is no longer any good.

Email Gadget and ask him to email you one of the tones. 60hz, 1khz, etc... it doesn't matter which one. Or you may find one on line some where. It just needs to be of enough duration to be useful ( a minute or so minimum).
Have you been using music to set the gain structure? If so, you can't. Pink noise can be used but you'll have a 6 (or sometimes 12)db crest or bounce factor, but sine tones are better. Whether from a computer or recorded on a cd or mp3 player, all are fine.

DRA

Polabear

Thanks Dra! I will email Gadjet and get a sine test tone to work with. You have been very helpful and i appreciate it!

Dra

You might find one online.