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Check My Settings on 260

dfborndfborn Posts: 17
Okay. I started out with lots of questions about a AFS224. After some help, I'm selling the AFS224 and a 260 is on the way. I've read the Start Here and I'm working my way through the FAQ and the external links to audio education on line. I've done the DriveWare tutorial for the 260 and have "virtually" performed an initial setup of our system.

Our 2 mains are EV ELX112p (not in the list) and our are 2 subs EV ELX 118p (also not in the list). Our monitors are wired in-ear monitors run out of an aux send and routed through a headphone amp.

If you need it, our mixer is a Mackie 1642vlz3.

Here are the crossover points I set based on my reading elsewhere on the forum:
Left High = HPF 99.2 Hz LR 24
Right High = HPF 99.2 Hz LR 24
Left Sub = HPF 39.4 Hz BW 18 LPF 99.2 Hz LR 24
Right Sub = HPF 39.4 Hz BW 18 LPF 99.2 Hz LR 24

I can't upload the dwp file, so here's a link to it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xxyoch4frozv ... c.dwp?dl=0

I'm trying to learn more and more about DR and especially the 260, it's a steep learning curve, but all the info gathered is making it a bit easier. Thanks!

Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Where are you getting the 260, and what did you pay?

    Those setting look good. One thought. The subs should be processed internally and the HPF would be part of that. The 39hz HPF that you are applying will be on top of the filter that the internal is applying, which will alter the end (actual) filter applied. To what extent is unknown, though it will add protection (cutting more low freqs at a steeper slope). That might be desired, but you may also prefer just adding a "fail-safe" at say... 30hz. The choice is yours. The higher the HPF, the more reserve power you will have.

    The internal dsp should also have limiting, so anything you add should be "fail-safe" as well, unless you want to limit it at a lower output.

    You'll love the 260, especially if you use the Driveware GUI (computer control).

    DRA
  • dfborndfborn Posts: 17
    I purchased through ebay. It was $550 I think for "new" condition. I'm usually skeptical of ebay for electronics purchases but I've had luck in the past with highly rated sellers.

    Would that also apply to the LPF on the subs. The only crossover info I could find on the subs was from EV website. They say it's at 100 Hz. And then for frequency response, they have the following: (-3 dB) 42 - 100 Hz, (-10 dB), 32 - 130 Hz. The subs also have a "bass boost" switch which EV says "provides additional low-frequency extension. They do say what frequency or how much. Normally, we don't use this switch but I also don't have complete control over who powers on the speakers and what switches they flip (working on fixing this).

    So, if I were to lower the 260's HPF to 30Hz as you suggested as a "fail-safe", should I do the same on the LPF?

    Thanks.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    OK. I just checked the manual and the x-over filters are fixed on the Subs (HPF & LPF) and tops (100hz or off).

    You need to engage the 100hz switch on the top cabs.
    Set your high output filter to 40hz LR24. This will be your fail-safe, and is low enough as to not interfere with the 100hz filter or if you use the tops full range with out subs. I also recommend applying a 17Khz BW12 LPF. No reason to reproduce sounds that most can't hear and rarely are used in music anyway.

    Set your Low output filters to 30hz BW18 (fail-safe) and say... 200hz or higher to just get well above subs internal filter.

    The manual says nothing about the limiting protection scheme (peak or RMS), so hard to say how to use the limiters in the 260. They are RMS.

    DRA
  • dfborndfborn Posts: 17
    Thanks for your help. I'll get those adjusted in DriveWare. I also have a question about routing and aux-fed subs. Sorry in advance for the long preface.

    We don't have the money in the budget to add another unit, so we really need to route our mains, subs, and monitors (usually in-ear, with the occasional wedge exception) all through the 260. So, I'm trying to figure out how to route everything out of our board into the 260's 2 inputs because there isn't a 360.

    Here's my thinking: Monitors run out of pre-fade aux send 1 to input 2. That leaves the mixers mono-out running to the 260's input 1. The question now is how can we control the sub volume independently from FOH as well as selecting which channels are fed to the sub. Easy answer is aux send subs to a DriveRack input but that's not an option for us right now so we need to be creative. Here are the 3 options I've come up with:

    1. Route subs out of post-fade aux sends 3 and 4 and back into the board on it's stereo channels 15-16 (with the aux sends turned down). For all the other channels we control what goes into the subs with their aux send and fader. We control the overall level of the subs with the Channel 15/16 fader and it's routed into the main mix.

    2. Route subs out of post-fade aux send 3 and back into the boards stereo return 3. Assign stereo return 3 to main mix and control volume of subs with Stereo Return 3's knob and each channel with the aux send.

    3. Using boards sub busses, we assign each channel we want in the subs to both the main mix and the 1-2 sub busses. Then we assign the 1-2 sub busses to the main mix. Individual channels are routed into the subs via the assign feature and the level of the subs is controlled via the 1-2 sub bus faders (we could also do this on 1 sub bus fader).

    I realize that it would be much simpler to route them out of the aux send into the DR and use another DR unit for the monitors, but, will any of these options work. Is there some huge downside or potential problem I'm overlooking? Is one of these to be preferred over the other. At the moment, 2 is the least likely, and 3 is the most. We currently route our subs out of sub bus 1 (without assigning them to the main mix), so this method is most similar to what we do now.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Are you attempting to control the level of the content going to the sub speakers (only) or the level of the instruments going to the subs and mains equally?
    For example, what are you doing with the upper register content of the bass guitar and the "click" of the kick? Increasing them as well, or leaving them behind?

    DRA
  • dfborndfborn Posts: 17
    I guess, both equally (but independently) on individual channels. But the problem we were having when we ran both subs and mains from the board's mono out was that there was no way to control to volume of the subs relative to the mains from FOH. The only option was to use the knobs on the back of the speakers which we can't really access during live sound.

    We'd like to be able to adjust the amount of say bass guitar in the subs (on a individual channel post-fade) as well as the overall volume of the subs relative to the main speakers from FOH.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    You can increase / decrease the subs output with the low filter gain in the x-over.

    DRA
  • dfborndfborn Posts: 17
    Ok, so you're suggesting that we simply run a mono out feed to the DR260 to input one for mains/subs. Aux send to input 2 for monitors.

    And then we control to relative volume of mains/subs using the low filter gain in the DR260.

    So, basically, there's no way to run an aux-fed sub setup and a monitor mix and our mains off the DR260 (because we'd need 3 separate inputs).

    In this case, and once our budget increases, let's say we add another DR. Would it be better to route the subs on monitors through it?

    Normally, the monitors would make the most since, but since ours are almost always in-ear, having a brick-wall limiter is pretty important (this is one of the main reasons we went with the 260). I also like the prospect of being able to adjust the eq settings of the iem with the 260. Would having the mains and subs on different DRs (and different auto-eq) cause problems that I just haven't learned about yet?
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    How are you running the aux fed subs now? Those that have a driverack and run aux fed subs, use an analog x-over that they had laying around. Aux fed subs are definitely the soup of the day, but most (IMHO) are doing because it is the "popular" thing to do, and have convinced themselves that they need to. You may find that the addition of the 260 eliminates the need.

    DRA
  • dfborndfborn Posts: 17
    Now, we run our mains out of the boards mono out through the AFS224 and then to the mains. Our subs our run through a sub bus, but it's essentially like an aux-fed setup. We only assign what needs to be in the subs and run it out of the boards sub bus out (without assigning it to the main mix) and adjust the volume with the sub bus fader. Then they go through the AFS224 and then to the subs. Any xing-over is done by internal x-overs on the mains/subs.

    If we were to find out that we like this current setup better and want to use a DR, we'd obviously need 3 inputs. Would we lose anything important by running our mains ands monitors through the 260 and then the subs through either x-over or a DR. I was thinking about picking up a PX just because we'll probably buy an RTA mic to use with the 260 anyway. So we could put those $ (plus some more) toward a PX and get a rta mic with it...
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    What mic / instrument inputs do you have in the sub bus? You do not have any of these in the main mix, correct?

    DRA
  • dfborndfborn Posts: 17
    Usually bass, drums, occasionally electric guitar. And yes, now these are in both the main mix and the sub bus mix.
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