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I cant even get through the Wizard set up on the DBX PA2

coffee_kingcoffee_king Posts: 12
edited May 2015 in DriveRack PA2
My equipment:-
2 x Yamaha MSR400 (Active)
1 x Yamaha MSR800w (Active)
Allen & Heath QU16

Running the Wizard (If I type in caps it means thats what Ive selected)

Select input configuration
Mono / STEREO

Select GEQ configuration
Dual mono / Stereo linked
What does this mean? What am I supposed to select?

Select main speaker brand
YAMAHA (Its a good job I'm not using mixed otherwise I'd have no idea what to select here)

Select main speaker model
MSR MSR400

Are you using subs? (I really feel this should read 'Are you using a sub or multiple subs' if I'm being pedantic)
No / YES

Select Sub speaker brand
YAMAHA

Select sub speaker model (There are literally 5 Yamaha subs listed, 5? Are you kidding me? How is this a 'Wizard' if there are only 5 to choose from?)
NOT LISTED

Select sub speaker configuration
MONO / Stereo

Powered speaker high amplifier
YAMAHA MSR MSR400

Match your high amp levels to this:
23% and a little picture
What does this mean? 23% of what? My top speakers work on DB not percentages
If you think of it like a guitar amp you could say it goes from 0 to 10, but there is the space around the bottom of the dial that you of course cant reach. So where would 23% be, as in what angle?

Yamaha-MSR400-Rear-knobs.png

Where is 23%? 23% of what? How do I work out what 23% is? What happens if I accidentally set it higher or lower? How could I ever literally dial in EXACTLY 23%

Select low amplifier brand. (Does this mean SUB amplifier brand, if so what doesnt it state "Select SUB amplifier brand" ?)
I assume this means that because my powered sub (Yamaha MSR800w) is NOT listed that it doesnt know if my sub is passive or active and so might be run from a separate power amp? So what do I select? Ive selected YAMAHA

Why cant I tell the system that my SUB is active and NOT run from a separate power amp?

Select low amplifier model (Again a very limited range to choose from)
NOT LISTED

So, can anyone help at all here as I need to answer the above queries and also need to try to manually set the sub up.
So info from the Yamaha MSR800w manual is as follows

Specifications
MSR800w-Specifications.png
Performance graph
MSR800w-performance-graph.png

Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    My equipment:-
    2 x Yamaha MSR400 (Active)
    1 x Yamaha MSR800w (Active)
    Allen & Heath QU16

    Running the Wizard (If I type in caps it means thats what Ive selected)

    Select input configuration
    Mono / STEREO

    Select GEQ configuration
    Dual mono / Stereo linked
    What does this mean? What am I supposed to select?Stereo linked means that what changes are made, are made to L & R. Most applications will use this.

    Select main speaker brand
    YAMAHA (Its a good job I'm not using mixed otherwise I'd have no idea what to select here)

    Select main speaker model
    MSR MSR400

    Are you using subs? (I really feel this should read 'Are you using a sub or multiple subs' if I'm being pedantic)
    No / YES

    Select Sub speaker brand
    YAMAHA

    Select sub speaker model (There are literally 5 Yamaha subs listed, 5? Are you kidding me? How is this a 'Wizard' if there are only 5 to choose from?)
    NOT LISTED It really will not matter.

    Select sub speaker configuration
    MONO / Stereo

    Powered speaker high amplifier
    YAMAHA MSR MSR400

    Match your high amp levels to this:
    23% and a little picture
    What does this mean? 23% of what? My top speakers work on DB not percentages
    If you think of it like a guitar amp you could say it goes from 0 to 10, but there is the space around the bottom of the dial that you of course cant reach. So where would 23% be, as in what angle?

    Yamaha-MSR400-Rear-knobs.png

    Where is 23%? 23% of what? How do I work out what 23% is? What happens if I accidentally set it higher or lower? How could I ever literally dial in EXACTLY 23%If your gain knob on the speaker is 0-10, then 2.3.

    Select low amplifier brand. (Does this mean SUB amplifier brand, if so what doesnt it state "Select SUB amplifier brand" ?)
    I assume this means that because my powered sub (Yamaha MSR800w) is NOT listed that it doesnt know if my sub is passive or active and so might be run from a separate power amp? So what do I select? Ive selected YAMAHA

    Why cant I tell the system that my SUB is active and NOT run from a separate power amp?An amp is an amp, where ever it is. Choose the closest option, but it really doesn't matter.

    Select low amplifier model (Again a very limited range to choose from)
    NOT LISTED

    So, can anyone help at all here as I need to answer the above queries and also need to try to manually set the sub up.
    So info from the Yamaha MSR800w manual is as follows

    Specifications
    MSR800w-Specifications.png
    Performance graph
    MSR800w-performance-graph.png

    DRA
  • coffee_kingcoffee_king Posts: 12
    Ive sent the unit back for a refund.
    I completly appreciate the help that everyone has provided but I didnt buy such a unit to be told that
    "It doesnt matter" what I set most of it to.

    I cant see how its fit for any application unless you have the EXACT speakers that are listed in the machine. (Of which there are a very, very limited amount listed).
    I and my fellow band mates (All with a lot of expereince in technology old and new who have all been in the business for 20 odd years now) could not even get through the "Wizard" set up without it throwing up messages that made no sense.

    For instance (This is just a few issues we had):
    You cant tell the system if you are using active speakers, it tells you to turn speakers/amps up and down to specific percentages, it told me to turn my sub down to a level that was so low it wouldnt work, it then told me that it coudnt detect any sound.

    The theory behind this system is incredible, but it is let down by a lousey user interface and is thus completely unusable.

    I strongly discourage anyone from buying this until DBX bother to add more speaker/amps/active speaker lists and improve the UI on the set up wizard to explain what a number/percenta ACTUALLY means.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    "It doesn't matter" is a security blanket statement for complete novices that are scared that they might screw it up "if my exact speaker or amp is not listed". These types of concerns are detailed in the READ ME FIRST section. I should have directed you there.
    No one said that the SETTINGS don't matter. Whether the amp is inside the speaker cabinet or outside, does not matter. When a 12" top is used with a 18" sub, the x-over point recommended will be a generically good one. Raising or lowering the x-over point might be desired based on personal taste. If you have a JBL speaker that is bi-ampable with Crown amps, then the bi-amp PEQ data, x-over points and slopes are given. The Wizard can't, and never was intended to, replace an experienced sound man.
    Since the original Driverack PA, the Wizard's capabilities have been underplayed and often debunked here by user that love the functionality and usefulness of the unit. A lot of people that bought the PA, PA+, PA2, 260, etc "just because" it had a "magic Wizard" where often disappointed. You are one of those.
    Consider the time and cost for DBX to compile a data base that has every speaker brand, and ever speaker model still in street use (let's limit it to 1990 and later), the same for subs, and every amp brand and model (and whether bridged or not) in the same time period. Now pair every possible combination to set amp gains, HPFs, LPFs, etc.
    With only... 7 top speaker choices, 7 top amp choices, 7 sub choices, 7 sub amp choices to choose from... yields 2401 possible combinations. You really expect DBX to actually set them all up, and give you hard, detailed, tested data. Which by the way means they have to purchase competitors products. The fact that they have in there what IS in there is really quite amazing.

    What are you going to purchase in it's place? (curious)

    DRA
  • coffee_kingcoffee_king Posts: 12
    Nothing.
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