DriveRack PA2 with the X32 Routing Question

lilpyro

Hi everyone!

I hope someone can help with this “small� problem or I should say routing situation. I read many of the forums about this but haven’t really found the right answer so I hope I’m not repeating something that I might have missed.
I have a Behringer x32 producer mixer board (stereo with mono subs matrix/subgroup set up)
2 QSC KW153 main Speakers
2 KW181 Subs
PA2 DriveRack
1st off I’m not really a very experienced sound person/tech so I had to learn everything thru YouTube and I have set up my X32 through Drew Brashler’s videos especially the one that’s called “Behringer X32 - Board Setup Case Study – Jerry�.
So, my question is that I recently purchased a Dbx DriveRack PA2 Complete Loudspeaker Management System that can be programmed with saved settings with all the different venues I perform at (seems nice and convenient). I just need to know how I would set up my x32 board to accommodate the new system. The Matrix set up in the X32 now won't work for the subs with the DriveRack(it will produce sound but the vocals bleed into the subs because of the matrix routing). Would I need to take the x overs and low/high cut filters out in the x32 so that the Drive Rack would work better with their filters and x overs? Or would the X32 be the better use as the x overs/filters with the separate mono sub out? Another idea I though was, since the matrix have 3 outs, just using only the DriveRack for the top main speakers and the X32 for the subs. Either way I need to know what would be the best strong sounding and safe way to set up from this mixer board. Any help would be great!

Thanks ï?Š 8)

Dra

I am not following your "vocals in the subs" comment.
1) Did you change the matrix within the X32? In what way?
2) What are the connections to the PA2?
3) What configuration did you set up in the PA2?
4) What are the connections out of the PA2?
5) From where are the subs being run?

DRA

lilpyro

Thanks DRA for your quick response! I will do my best to clarify my situation since I’m not much of a sound tech....please bare with me on the details (I’ll try my best).

The Pa2 was only configured by the wizard settings 2-Way Application (stereo)

The connections out of the Pa2 is High out L/R and Low L/R

The subs are being run in the garage area at the moment just about 6 or 7 feet apart sitting on the floor. Eventually will be using them in bigger rooms / clubs.

Below is some photos how I have my board routed:

lilpyro

Below is some photos how I have my board routed: (continued)

lilpyro

Below is some photos how I have my board routed: (continued)

lilpyro

Below is some photos how I have my board routed: (continued)

lilpyro

Below is some photos how I have my board routed: (continued)




That is all for now on the routing of the x32 matrix and sub groups. I hope this helped and wasn't too much or overwhelming! Thanks again for your help and let me know if you need more info. 8)

lilpyro

And I wanted to add that I like having my subs as mono but the top mains as stereo. I really don't know what the best set up in the "Run All Wizards" part of the PA2 should be. And I do add the QSC KW153(and KW181 subs if I need to) that are included in the PA2 Active Speaker presets(and I do have the RTA-M Mic).

The choices are:

Full Range Application 1(Standard): Which (I guess) would work if I only wanted the top mains to be used in the PA2 and leaver the subs ran from the x32 Matrix xover.

Full Range Application 2(Sub-Satellite System):

Full Range Application 3(All Outputs Full Range):

2-way Application:

3-Way Application:

The funny thing is that when I apply the Subharmonic Synthesis(SUB) that the subs then produce a very nice low bass that I love but that's when the vocals come in (now and then) just enough to be annoying even when I have the low cut in the vocal channel(as shown in my examples above) in the X32. I know I could just use the board just as I set it up in the example above as it works and sounds pretty good.....but, I really would love to use the PA2 but need to find the best way to set it up with the sound system that I have utilizing the routing, xovers, limiter(if needed), feedback suppression, EQ, Filters, and saving all the presets for the gigs that I have to come back to.

Dra

What is the low cut on the vocal channels set to? The sub synth will use frequencies around 100hz. As a simple test of what you can cut, have your lowest singer attempt to duplicate the notes played from a piano or keyboard. Choose the frequency of the note at or below the one they can hit.
These are an octave below middle C.
D - 150 hz
C - 130 hz
B - 120 hz
A - 110 hz

The further you can get above 100hz, the better, as far as vocal in the subs when using the sub synth, as long as you aren't cutting the natural vocal range used. If you like the overall sound when using the sub synth, perhaps you can get the same general sound by simply increasing the sub's level. Remember, the synth adds sounds that you band is NOT making.

DRA

lilpyro

The vocal channel is set to the photo below:



Would I be better off just to have the PA2 wizard set only the top mains for the mids and highs. And leave the bass subs for the X32 as the mono mix. Because the board is sending out the 2 left and right for the top mains(out of 15 and 16) and the Sub bass is being sent out mono on 13. And the PA2 only has 2 inputs not 3 to separate the subs. I still don't know which setting to use in the PA2?

Thanks,

Larry

Dra

I thought you liked the Sub synth? (not that I think you should use it). If you run the subs off the X32, you won't be able to use it. Do you really need the PA2 at all? What functions are you going to use it for?
The Wizard is pretty useless, in my opinion, if you run the tops in the PA2 and the subs in the X32. I think I would run everything from the PA2, or not use it at all. You just need to try it both ways and see what sounds the best.

DRA

lilpyro

That is the decision I’m trying to make. Since I have already routed the X32 xovers to control the mics from rumbling in the subs and the bass and kick drum from crossing into the highs by utilizing the matrix system it works great! But the only reason I purchased the PA2 is because a well-known musician uses a similar DBX unit saying how nice it is to program your settings(for all different gigs that we play at) and it supposed to protect the PA loud speakers from overdriving its self(he said that the PA2 will work just fine). When I received the PA2 I noticed that it had only a left and right input as I have 3 outputs (2 for L & R mains and one for mono subs….which I need help finding a better routing plan to work with the PA2). So, this is the reason I came to this forum to ask how I should set up my X32 routing to get ALL of my Highs, Mids and lows into the PA2. And what setting should the PA2 be to control the QSC KW153 and KW181 speakers? I have all my information above how my board is set up but I think I need to change the routing (matrix or the sub groups) in the X32 to utilize the PA2 correctly. I know that the PA2 can do a great job but I feel that I have the set up wrong for it to work with my X32. I don‘t know if I mentioned it but it’s for a live band use not DJ.
It’s like I’m only feeding the PA2 with the mids and highs only as the PA2 then puts out the high L & R and the Low L & R and that’s why my mics are sending some vocals into the low end. When I try to cut out the vocals from the bass it then sounds very tinny high end ish. I know it’s asking a lot and I appreciate your help. I was hoping for an easy fix with the correct PA setting for the kind of system I’m using. (this is another reason I got the QSC speakers because they were listed in the PA2 preset column.

Larry

Dra

Are you aware that DBX has just released a 3 input processor? It is the Venu360 and would be able to do exactly what you want. So, short of returning the PA2 and buying the new unit, you have to decide what YOU want.
1 - Can you get good sound from the X32 only (3 matrix)? Yes
2 - Can you get good sound from the X32 (3 matrix) and PA2? Yes
3 - Can you get good sound from the X32 (2 matrix) and the PA2? Yes

Each configuration has its own limitations, and each configuration has its positives.
You like the idea of the saving set-ups for venues. I use that feature a lot, but my situation is very different. I don't save venues for the EQ settings. I save them for actual configuration changes. Full range tops, Tops & subs, Tops, subs, & monitors, Monitors only, an added zone here or there.

DRA

PS - B'ger also has a 3 input processor.

lilpyro

The new processor looks good. I will look into that. Thanks again for your help 8)