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DriveRack 260 with EV TX1152 and EV TX1181

Hi guys

Need some advice ... Even if it's just temporary.

We had a good friend (sound pro) setup our DriveRack 260 a few months back.
Since then, we've teaked it here and there.

But then a few weeks ago I deleted the user group and we lost ALL the settings.
Yeah, I'm still kicking myself for that. :(

Anyway, we've managed to get the system sounding pretty decent, using an old preset as a starting point.

But for the last few weeks, our kick and bass drop out the mix completely at times, then slowly start coming back.

My guess it's a limiter / compression setting that needs adjusting.

Here are the Crossover, EQ, limiter and compression settings we're using.

Would appreciate any advice if there's anything glaringly wrong.

Thanks,
Jakes

--

DBX DriveRack 260
Tops:
2 x EV TX1152
Amp: Crown XLS602

Subs:
2 x EV TX1181
Amp: Quest QA2000

Crossover Settings:

Top L+R:

LPF: 19.6kHz
Slope: BW 24
HPF: 121Hz
Slope: BW 24
Gain: 0.0dB

Subs:

LPF: 121Hz
Slope: BS 24
HPF: 27.8Hz
Slope: LR 12
Gain: 1.0dB

EQ Settings:

Top L+R:
PEQ: On
Flatten
Bell

F1: 707Hz
G: -2.5dB
Q: 0.175

F2: 5.04kHz
G: 3.5dB
Q: 0.939

F3: 2.45kHz
G: 0.0dB
Q: 0.939

F4: 5.04kHz
G: 0.0dB
Q: 0.175

Subs:

PEQ: On
Flatten
Bell

F1: 20.9Hz
G: 1.0dB
Q: 0.433

F2: 125Hz
G: 1.0dB
Q: 0.433

F3: 728Hz
G: 0.0dB
Q: 0.939

F4: 5.04kHz
G: 0.0dB
Q: 0.175

Compression + Limiter:

Tops:

Compression:
Comp: OFF. Auto: ON.
Overeasy 2
Threshold: -6.0 dB
3.0 : 1
Gain: 0.0 dB
Attack: 0.3 ms
Hld: 116 ms
Release: 45.0 dB/s

Limiter:

Limiter: ON. Overeasy 2
Threshold: -3.0 dB
PkStop+: OFF. Auto: ON
Overshoot: 6.0 dB
Attack: 0.1 ms
Hld: 50 ms
Release: 150.0 dB/s

Subs:

Limiter:
Limiter: ON. Overeasy 2
Threshold: +4.5 dB
PkStop+: OFF. Auto: ON
Overshoot: 6.0 dB
Attack: 75 ms
Hld: 50 ms
Release: 75.0 dB/s

Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Hi guys


    But for the last few weeks, our kick and bass drop out the mix completely at times, then slowly start coming back.

    My guess it's a limiter / compression setting that needs adjusting.


    --



    Crossover Settings:

    Top L+R:

    LPF: 19.6kHz
    Slope: BW 24
    HPF: 121Hz Change to 100hz
    Slope: BW 24 Change to LR24
    Gain: 0.0dB

    Subs:

    LPF: 121Hz Change to 100hz
    Slope: BS 24 Change to LR24
    HPF: 27.8Hz Change to 45 or 50hz
    Slope: LR 12 Change to BW18
    Gain: 1.0dB

    EQ Settings:

    Top L+R:
    PEQ: On
    Flatten
    Bell

    F1: 707Hz
    G: -2.5dB
    Q: 0.175

    F2: 5.04kHz
    G: 3.5dB
    Q: 0.939

    F3: 2.45kHz
    G: 0.0dB
    Q: 0.939

    F4: 5.04kHz
    G: 0.0dB
    Q: 0.175

    Subs:

    PEQ: On
    Flatten
    Bell

    F1: 20.9Hz Put about 60hz
    G: 1.0dB Set gain to +4db
    Q: 0.433 Set the Q to about 4.4
    Play with the G & Q to suite. They were guesses based on the plot of the subs response curve.
    F2: 125Hz This filter won't be used unless to need to make an additional change, but for now set the gain to -0-.
    G: 1.0dB
    Q: 0.433

    F3: 728Hz
    G: 0.0dB
    Q: 0.939

    F4: 5.04kHz
    G: 0.0dB
    Q: 0.175

    Compression + Limiter:

    Tops:

    Compression: Compression is generally a bad idea. If used, it should be really minimally
    Comp: OFF. Auto: ON.
    Overeasy 2
    Threshold: -6.0 dB
    3.0 : 1
    Gain: 0.0 dB
    Attack: 0.3 ms
    Hld: 116 ms
    Release: 45.0 dB/s

    Limiter: The difference between PkStop+ on & off is... on is a peak limiter and off is RMS. You have to choose what is more important to you and you protection scheme. Using the auto feature may be your problem. It adapts throughout the show, and has been shown to introduce unwanted artifacts (noise).

    Limiter: ON. Overeasy 2
    Threshold: -3.0 dB
    PkStop+: OFF. Auto: ON
    Overshoot: 6.0 dB That is a lot of overshoot.
    Attack: 0.1 ms
    Hld: 50 ms
    Release: 150.0 dB/s

    Subs:

    Limiter:
    Limiter: ON. Overeasy 2
    Threshold: +4.5 dB
    PkStop+: OFF. Auto: ON
    Overshoot: 6.0 dB Again, a lot of overshoot, particular in RMS mode.
    Attack: 75 ms
    Hld: 50 ms
    Release: 75.0 dB/s
  • Hi DRA

    Thanks so much for the advice. Really appreciate it.
    I'm a novice so just some further questions:

    Compression: Compression is generally a bad idea. If used, it should be really minimally
    Comp: OFF. Auto: ON.
    Overeasy 2
    Threshold: -6.0 dB
    3.0 : 1
    Gain: 0.0 dB
    Attack: 0.3 ms
    Hld: 116 ms
    Release: 45.0 dB/s

    You mentioned "if compression is used, it should be minimally. What adjustments would I need to make?
    Should I make it Comp: OFF. Auto: OFF as well?


    Limiter: The difference between PkStop+ on & off is... on is a peak limiter and off is RMS. You have to choose what is more important to you and you protection scheme. Using the auto feature may be your problem. It adapts throughout the show, and has been shown to introduce unwanted artifacts (noise).

    Should I set this to: PkStop+: ON. Auto: OFF ?

    Limiter: ON. Overeasy 2
    Threshold: -3.0 dB
    PkStop+: OFF. Auto: ON
    Overshoot: 6.0 dB That is a lot of overshoot. What could I set it to?
    Attack: 0.1 ms
    Hld: 50 ms
    Release: 150.0 dB/s

    Subs:

    Limiter:
    Limiter: ON. Overeasy 2
    Threshold: +4.5 dB
    PkStop+: OFF. Auto: ON
    Overshoot: 6.0 dB Again, a lot of overshoot, particular in RMS mode. What could I set it to? And should it be PkStop+: ON. Auto: OFF
    Attack: 75 ms
    Hld: 50 ms
    Release: 75.0 dB/s
  • DRA,

    I made the adjustments you recommended and can't believe the difference!
    You're the man!

    Thanks so much.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    Hi DRA

    You mentioned "if compression is used, it should be minimally. What adjustments would I need to make?
    Should I make it Comp: OFF. Auto: OFF as well?
    The problem with compression on the entire system is that if the snare triggers the compression, the entire mix is compressed with it. Compression should be done on a channel by channel basis on your mixer. Having said that, compression can be a useful tool for the mix, but must be used lightly. Google something like "using compression on whole mix". Compression should only be applied just before the limiters kick in. Compression keep the mix from getting too loud all of a sudden, whereas limiters are strictly for speaker protection. Limiters should be set first, then compression. If the limiter is set +18db, the compressor should set so that it acts as a cushion to the abrupt clamping of the limiter. Maybe set compressor to +12db, Overeasy 4, ratio of 2:1. In this example, the compressor starts acting 6db before the limiter does, and gradually become more intrusive. The intrusion is all up to you.

    Should I set this to: PkStop+: ON. Auto: OFF ? It depends on your system and your needs. I checked you speakers and amps. You have 370w going into a 500w continuous speaker. If that amp clips is will put out about double that power (740w). That is still under the 1000w program rating. It won't sound good and the distortion is bad for the horns though. A peak limiter doesn't do you much good since the amp, even in heavy clip gets no where near the 2000w peak capacity of the speaker. Use the RMS limiter (Peak-Stop+ off). Set it to limit when the mixer is into the red (using a sine wave tone at least 1 octave above the x-over point) and the amp clips with steady consistency (with the limiter off) by adjusting the attenuators. No speaker connected by the way. Turn on the limiter and set the threshold so that the amp just stops clipping. Overshoot is only active for PeakStop+. I would suggest that OverEasy is off.

    Subs:

    Limiter:

    Overshoot: 6.0 dB Again, a lot of overshoot, particular in RMS mode. What could I set it to? And should it be PkStop+: ON. Auto: OFF Again, Overshoot is only active for PS+. Subs can benefit from limited clipping. It "dirties up" the low end. So a quick flash of the clip light on the beat of the kick drum is many times good. Peakstop+ on may be the way on this one. Send a sine tone (60hz would good). Turn off the limiter and push the mixer into the red like before. Adjust the amp like before so that it clips. Turn on the limiter (PS+ on), set the Overshoot to 0db, and set the threshold to stop the clipping. Leave the tone playing and get the drummer to hit the kick as normal and bring the channel up to normal levels. (remember, still no speakers attached) In theory the amp should not be clipping. (Oh. And the compressor has not been set yet, so it should be off still.) Increase the Overshoot (kick drum at 1/2 to 1 sec pace) until the amp clip pulses with the kick. Now set the compressor.

    Maybe that will get you on the right road. Tweak and compare what works best for you.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,844
    I found this on whole mix compression. It has recommendations for settings.
    viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1488
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