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Keypad Builder "Problems"

jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining EngineerPosts: 2,901
I've used the program extensivly for the first time this week, and found it very aggrivating. Is it me or does anyone else think this program was rushed and it lacked major quality assurance time? I find it missing some key features that would be very helpful. Here's a list I've come up with:

1) Export engraving preview as an image.
2) When I change a button's properties in the "Engraving" section, then select another button without hitting "Update", it should commit all my changes.
3) Where's the "Undo"?!?!?!? (I thought I was working with an updated, modern program, and not something similar to TPD3)
4) The ability to set a default default fonts with the keypads, and not just the DMS one.
5) A "paint" tool like in TPD4, where I can select one button's properties and paint it onto others.
6) When I hit enter to "Update" my changes to a keypad's text size, it shouldn't close the "Engraving" window . . .

Are my simple requests too much to ask for? Any others?

Comments

  • Problems?

    Looks more like feature requests to me.

    Notice there is no Edit menu item.
    I would like to see a copy/paste feature.

    Any more?

    Make sure your requests get forwarded to AMX tech support so they get on 'the list.'
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,901
    True, true . . .

    Yes, I guess the are requests. I just think it's a problem when you're using an editing program and there's no "undo", or as you pointed out, not even an "Edit" menu. :) The list will definately get forwarded. Aside from that, you are correct, these are requests. Unfortunately there's no way to rename the thread. :( oh well.

    As a reminder to all - do read the first line of my signature. . . ;)
  • RicardoSiqueiraRicardoSiqueira Junior Member Posts: 373
    I also believe this application looks more like a Beta version to me. Have you guys tried programming the new Mio DMS with this application? There is no button 'Navigation' preview. You need to keep downloading the file to the keypad to preview your page/button navigation. No way to assign buillt in variables to display automaticaly (time & date). The old KPDesign had all the above.
  • mpullinmpullin Obvious Troll Account, Marked for Deletion Posts: 949
    Is there going to be a new version of this software coming out? We have a project coming up that uses 4 Mio DMSs, and I find this application forces me to do a lot of tedious stuff. Like others have said: needs an edit menu.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    jjames wrote:
    Yes, I guess the are requests. I just think it's a problem when you're using an editing program and there's no "undo", or as you pointed out, not even an "Edit" menu. :) The list will definately get forwarded. Aside from that, you are correct, these are requests. Unfortunately there's no way to rename the thread. :( oh well.

    As a reminder to all - do read the first line of my signature. . . ;)

    I dunno, it's 2006. I would think that 'undo' is kinda standard equipment. I wouldn't send out any software that doesn't have an undo/redo; particularly one that is in it's very nature and editing program.

    IMHO
    ejm
  • JustinCJustinC Junior Member Posts: 74
    Some more feature requests would be:

    Multiple Line Text

    Possibly symbols and text on the same or different lines.

    The text going more to the edge of the button.

    I have to agree that is program is very disappointing, we had the first run of keypads and it took almost 8 weeks to get the engraved buttons b/c AMX moved engravers first thing.
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Junior Member Posts: 1,164
    I would like to be able to print the screens out (maybe there is a way but I haven't found it) for the client to view them and give the okay or even for use in the operations manual that we provide.
  • JustinCJustinC Junior Member Posts: 74
    I normally just build the keypad then do a screenshot of the button pad and then crop it using photoshop and allow my customer to see what the panel will actually look like.
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Junior Member Posts: 1,164
    That's what I'm doing now but it would be nice if this was a built in function like TP3/4 have.
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    A few more issues I am currently experiencing:

    The display does not refresh with new info until you leave the page and come back to it. This applies to changes in the alignment of the text and power assigned channel and address codes.

    A severe lack of hot keys.

    As mentioned before, no edit capability (even tho in the help section under Power Assign, it touches on Copying and Pasting pages and buttons).

    I, along with others, seemed to think that this was a beta version of the software that was rushed to market when the keypads were released, but seeing as it has been out for quite some time now and nothing has been to even bring the software to the same level as the old DMS software, I have to wonder if AMX is planning on dropping this product soon???

    Jeff
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,901
    Good question and good point. I personally would like to see a come back of the old MSP keypads, those were nice. Especially having the options of a 32 button keypad and the volume bargraph. Oh - the good old days.
  • TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior Member Posts: 1,485
    I used KPB for the first time a few months ago as well. I remember there were quite a few quirks relating to saving files after modification as well as something that was very clumsy about the DMS text.

    I like to avoid 1.0 anything, but here we have no choice.
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    Another issues I just found. In the power assign, if you don't click a button on the current page before using the power assign, you will have the current page info displayed in the power assign window, but the assignments will be applied to the last page in which a button was highlighted.

    Jeff
  • yanbinyanbin Junior Member Posts: 86
    about the MIO DMS

    Same like here, the keypad builder software does not have the page copy and paste function.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,358
    I can't believe AMX hasn't done anything to correct the problems with this application. If nothing else at least allow us to import pages and files from other projects or modules and copy pages with in the application for cloning purposes.

    I want to add the DMS iPOD pages that have been created for the module to my existing pages but there is no way to do it. I can only re-create them page by page, button by button. How stupid is that.

    I thinks it's time for AMX to back off VA for a while and allocate those human resources to take care of some of their core products and applications and untimately us here on the forum who for the most part could give a rat's a$$ about VA.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,901
    Agreed!
    vining wrote:
    I thinks it's time for AMX to back off VA for a while and allocate those human resources to take care of some of their core products and applications and untimately us here on the forum who for the most part could give a rat's a$$ about VA.
    Ditto.

    I'm glad AMX takes the approach that "anyone can program", and makes this possible with VA - but seriously - I think the companies that bring in a pretty good amount of business don't need a crutch like VA.

    I love what AMX is doing with their hardware, but I think they've gone way off track with their software development. We can only hope that they're working on something so monumental, that it'll be worth it.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,358
    Ok, if you're not going to let us copy & paste at least let us open a 2nd instance of the application so we can have both files open side by side so we can manually copy. Now I have two choices; set up keypad builder on another PC and move my PC next to it (or VNC) or get out my trusted pad and pencil write it all down. Great choices!

    jjames wrote:
    I'm glad AMX takes the approach that "anyone can program", and makes this possible with VA - but seriously - I think the companies that bring in a pretty good amount of business don't need a crutch like VA.
    I'm not so sure about that! Everyone shouldn't program and those that want to should put in the time and invest in the craft. I'm also not so sure that in the long term it's going to be in the best interest for AMX unless they really get this done right and I'm not so sure it's possible w/o a MicroSoft level of finance and influence. To increase the amount of bad installation has only short term benefits cuz in the long term it will diminish the companies reputation. To me it seems that VA just allows more people to sell AMX systems at the level of Pronto's, Elan Via's, Vantage and all the other entry level touch panel systems. IMHO, instead of raising the bar we are lowering it.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,901
    vining wrote:
    I'm not so sure about that! Everyone shouldn't program and those that want to should put in the time and invest in the craft.
    I agree - not everyone "should" program, but they seem to be on the philosophy, every "can" program. (Sorry, been watching Ratatouille ;)). Indeed, making a system work flawlessly, and efficiently while pleasing the client is an art.

    I have confidence in AMX, it's just annoying sometimes when they "seem" not to listen, though - not everyone can be pleased - which is the reality of this (and life.) The thing is with Keypad Builder - it does what it's supposed to do. That's the main thing. If it didn't, then we'd have big problems. Everything else is sort of a feature request - if you know what I mean.
  • TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior Member Posts: 1,485
    jjames wrote:
    I'm glad AMX takes the approach that "anyone can program", and makes this possible with VA -

    I don't think that VA will actually create that many real-world, installed systems.

    Given that AMX has a reputation in the integration world as being difficult to program, I think that VA is simply a way to say "Look, we've made it easier!" Ultimately, a newbie that is reeled in by VA will have to learn to code on his/her own if they intend to be serious about programming.
  • TonyAngeloTonyAngelo Code Monkey Posts: 315
    jjames wrote:
    Everything else is sort of a feature request - if you know what I mean.

    Many of these things are more then feature requests. Undo, multiple instances, copy and paste for crying out loud. These are basic things that are in most any piece of software. These things should never have to be feature requests for any competent software designer.

    They're going to have to release an update to accommodate the new Metreau keypads, we'll see if they address these issues along with that.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,901
    TonyAngelo wrote:
    Many of these things are more then feature requests. Undo, multiple instances, copy and paste for crying out loud. These are basic things that are in most any piece of software. These things should never have to be feature requests for any competent software designer.

    I completely agree with you - those things are "standard" in any editing program, and agree that they should *not* have been left out, but they were - for whatever reason: time constraints, programming constraints - whatever it may be, they were. Silly & stupid? Absolutely! But . . . it is what it is. We personally don't have the power (unless someone wants to reverse engineer - at which point I'm not sure that the disclaimer they have on it with all the misspellings - would hold up - J/K!

    Core tools - then additional "tools" is what AMX needs to do. Overall though - I'd give AMX an 8 out of 10 for doing what they set out to do. There's a few quirks here and there - but, so be it.
  • BigsquatchBigsquatch Junior Member Posts: 216
    vining wrote: »
    I can't believe AMX hasn't done anything to correct the problems with this application. If nothing else at least allow us to import pages and files from other projects or modules and copy pages with in the application for cloning purposes.

    I want to add the DMS iPOD pages that have been created for the module to my existing pages but there is no way to do it. I can only re-create them page by page, button by button. How stupid is that.

    I thinks it's time for AMX to back off VA for a while and allocate those human resources to take care of some of their core products and applications and untimately us here on the forum who for the most part could give a rat's a$$ about VA.

    I agree >100%! I'm adding a new music source to 10 DMS keypads and each will need 5 pages with variable text fields (5 pages because you can't assign address codes to individual list table elements right?)

    This makes me have very serious reservations about including DMS keypads in projects. What should have been done in about 20 minutes will now take at least a couple of hours to finish!
  • BigsquatchBigsquatch Junior Member Posts: 216
    Bigsquatch wrote: »
    I agree >100%! I'm adding a new music source to 10 DMS keypads and each will need 5 pages with variable text fields (5 pages because you can't assign address codes to individual list table elements right?)

    This makes me have very serious reservations about including DMS keypads in projects. What should have been done in about 20 minutes will now take at least a couple of hours to finish!

    It ended up taking longer than 2 hours.

    At the very least I would like to be able to size the buttons list control (the window with the scrollbar above the 'Button Information' control). Even with the application maximized I still have to scroll the list down to be able to access the keypads 'Scroll Up' and 'Scroll Down buttons. More than half of my screen is empty below those controls yet there's no way to be able to see all of the buttons at the same time. V E E E E R R R R R R Y annoying when you have to change or verify page flips!

    And also, 'Scroll Up' and 'Scroll Down' ALWAYS show Page Flip=<none> even when there is a page flip programmed. Opening the button properties window is the only way to see if there is a page flip on the button.



    Meanwhile I'll be programming keypad layouts for our clients that are user friendly and easy to use...

    using software that is anything but.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    Here's one to pile on...

    I was adding the iPort keypad to a kpd file I was currently working on. As you all know, you cannot have more than 1 TPD file open. And even if you could, you cannot copy/paste pages anyway.

    so, it became a choice of degrees. Would it be easier to keep my file and recreate the iPort file from scratch using the report from the other or visa versa. I chose the latter as my keypad didn't have very many buttons yet and I knew it better.

    So, off I go. I get done and then went in and tried to make my new main page the power up and inactivity time out page. However, the program would not save the changes to these settings. You could select them and close. but when you came back in they were back to the original settings. "iPort Main"

    So, I ended up creating a new iPort MainX and hand-copying the buttons over. Then I moved my main page onto the origianl iPort Main page.

    sheesh!!!
  • trustworthytrustworthy Junior Member Posts: 74
    TonyAngelo wrote: »

    They're going to have to release an update to accommodate the new Metreau keypads, we'll see if they address these issues along with that.

    I'm pretty sure the Metreau KPs have a Dipswitch ID, but factory-set Button numbers, so you dont need to 'Design' the keypad, just write code for it. I am about to do a job with a few of them, and that's what I understood from the product info.

    EDIT: Sorry just seen the date on that post....!! lol
  • TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior Member Posts: 1,485
    Yes, dipswitch ID. The 6N takes two consecutive Axlinx channels. The first is for the buttons, the second for the built-in IR receiver.
  • BigsquatchBigsquatch Junior Member Posts: 216
    vining wrote: »
    Ok, if you're not going to let us copy & paste at least let us open a 2nd instance of the application so we can have both files open side by side so we can manually copy. Now I have two choices; set up keypad builder on another PC and move my PC next to it (or VNC) or get out my trusted pad and pencil write it all down. Great choices!

    I was going to point that out but I see that you already mentioned it Vining.

    AMX, will this application ever be up to your normal standards?
  • AuserAuser Junior Member Posts: 506
    The 6N takes two consecutive Axlinx channels. The first is for the buttons, the second for the built-in IR receiver.

    Minor correction, two consecutive device numbers. eg. 85 and 86 or 128 and 129.
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