AMXhome

Adam GershonAdam Gershon ModeratorPosts: 23
http://amx.com/amxhome/

Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to take a look at the information on AMXhome on the website, or the CD that was passed out at EHX.

Your comments and questions would be appreciated.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Adam Gershon
Residential Product Manager
AMX
«1

Comments

  • TrikinCurtTrikinCurt Junior Member Posts: 158
    I went to the training at EHX (and our rep had stopped by before EHX). We are going to discuss it more next week to see if it will work for the resi project we are just starting.

    My concerns are how much we will have to customize it to do what we need, after all, if we mess with it too much your updates won't fit in and it defeats a bit of the purpose! This project has a lot of R3 and R4 and the new keypads, so curious how well those fit in.

    With that said, being a resi guy I am just happy to see more of a push for products that work well in that category.

    Curt
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Junior Member Posts: 1,164
    Presentation looks fine, noticed that will only support up to 5 panels? Is this a new box? (sry I'm not a residential programmer)
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    TrikinCurt wrote: »
    I went to the training at EHX (and our rep had stopped by before EHX). We are going to discuss it more next week to see if it will work for the resi project we are just starting.

    My concerns are how much we will have to customize it to do what we need, after all, if we mess with it too much your updates won't fit in and it defeats a bit of the purpose! This project has a lot of R3 and R4 and the new keypads, so curious how well those fit in.

    With that said, being a resi guy I am just happy to see more of a push for products that work well in that category.

    Curt

    Thanks Curt.
    R3 and R4 integration has been done in the past in the context of AMXhome, and we are working on making it a more "standard" feature. Today, on the R4, it includes viewing currently playing conent for the media devices, and controlling basic features of these devices as well as the devices in a "media room", lights and HVAC.

    Metreau keypad integration is under way as well, and should be completed shortly.

    We are also refining the process of update integration and creating tools to ensure that the customization that you do will mesh well with additions we make.

    Let me know if I can answer anything else for you.

    Adam
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    Presentation looks fine, noticed that will only support up to 5 panels? Is this a new box? (sry I'm not a residential programmer)

    Hi Thomas,

    I'm not sure what you mean by "Is this a new box?"

    AMXhome supports 5 MAIN panels that control whole home functionality as well as dedicated media room controls. In addition to that, it also supports up to 16 what we call "room controls" that can control the functions within that particular room including lighting, HVAC, and distributed audio.

    Let me know if I can answer any other questions for you.

    Thanks,
    Adam
  • thomodthomod Junior Member Posts: 11
    Adam-

    Do you have a current list of supported products, the one I saw a while ago was pretty limited and didn't include a few of the devices shown in the marketing pdfs.

    Thanks

    Eric
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    thomod wrote: »
    Adam-

    Do you have a current list of supported products, the one I saw a while ago was pretty limited and didn't include a few of the devices shown in the marketing pdfs.

    Thanks

    Eric

    Hi Eric,
    What devices in the marketing PDF's are you referring to?

    AMXhome devices are broken down into 2 types. One-Way devices and Two-Way devices. One-Way devices currently include such device categories as

    Displays
    Audio/Video Recievers
    CD Players
    DVD Players
    Cable and Sat Set Top Boxes

    Any One-Way device that can be controlled via IR or RS-232 can be integrated into AMXhome through a simple and straightforward process.

    Two-Way devices currently consist of the following categories
    HVAC
    Audio/Video Servers
    Lighting
    Tuners
    Audio and Video Switchers

    Devices in these categories are what we define as "supported" devices, because they support two-way communication, and specific models are integrated into the Netlinx code and Touch Panel files for easy integration.

    I have attached the current "supported" list, although the library has already expanded beyond what is identified in here.

    Please let me know if you have any further questions.

    Thanks,
    Adam
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,900
    Curious...

    Is this all that's supported?
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,354
    JJames wrote:
    Is this all that's supported?
    Although the product was originally developed by a company in PA (I think) to bang out jobs and then bought by AMX, its new intent is for newbie dealers to be able to sell systems w/o pricing themselves out of the job due to high programming costs. From the limited poduct choices you can put together a modest system complete w/ cameras, HVAC, dustributed audio , etc. in a day. So they say.

    I got a demo from my REP and its is a very useful tool for those that aren't programmers or are just beginning so that the new dealers can sell systems w/o the $$$$$$$ it would cost to have AMX or some independent programmers to it for them. For a one time fee and unlimited usage which probably costs less than one time out sourced single job programming fee you get modest functionality w/ a decent GUI.

    I don't think it makes sense for most of the regular forum members who've been writng modules and code for years but for every one it is worth consideration.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,900
    I think the most that I personally would be interested in would be the GUI. They should put that up for sale for us dealers too . . . can't be ALL about the new guys (or gals). :D I know there are MVP-8400 & MVP-5200 demos, but . . . what about designs for the widescreens? And plus - even though the CV5 & CV10 have the same resolution, I'd hope that they don't have the same layout. And I know the MVP-8400 and the CV12 have the same resolution, but one has external buttons and the other one doesn't. Certainly couldn't use the same GUI . . . . could ya?

    Anyway - I'd love to see / have all the other TP GUIs. :D
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    jjames wrote: »
    Is this all that's supported?

    The attached list is the list of devices that are fully integrated for operation and feedback to the interface for the above mentioned categories. Again, any device can be integrated. The listed devices are those specific devices that are designed in to support two way communication.

    If there is something specific that you use consistently and would have expected to see on the list, please let me know.

    The goal of AMXhome goes beyond the programming aspects of it. What has been developed is an end to end solution providing sales tools that demonstrate the functionality of an audio, video and control system. Using these tools,from a stand alone wireless touchpanel, the sales person can sell a system that they can be certain the rest of the chain can execute (and execute profitably). What the customer is sold on, the customer receives, ensuring satisfaction.

    AMXhome is a tool set designed to outline a "best business practice" approach to control solution selling. The target audience is any dealer that doesn't currently offer preconfigured common packages, and feels that their business can operate more efficiently and profitably using these tools to execute these types of systems.

    Thanks,
    Adam
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,900
    Oh you salesman you! :D In all seriousness, do you belong to the company who sold it to AMX or do you work for AMX?

    As far as devices go, I thought Integra & Denon receivers would have made the list. Also, isn't the list actually smaller considering that the Escient, ARQ, Autopatch, and iPort pieces use the same protocol?

    And my gosh, I sure hope that an ARQ F2.800 doesn't only store 800 CDs. That's an expensive piece for just 800 CDs. ;)

    (Just looking out for the noobies . . . somebody has to.)
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    jjames wrote: »
    Oh you salesman you! :D In all seriousness, do you belong to the company who sold it to AMX or do you work for AMX?

    As far as devices I thought Integra & Denon receivers would have made the list. Also, isn't the list actually smaller considering that the Escient, ARQ, Autopatch, and iPort pieces use the same protocol?

    And my gosh, I sure hope that an ARQ F2.250 doesn't only store 250 CDs. That's an expensive piece for just 800 CDs. ;)

    (Just looking out for the noobies . . . somebody has to.)

    I work for AMX, and am responsible for bringing AMXhome to market.

    Audio/Video receivers are currently considered one-way devices in the context of AMXhome, and therefore are not part of the "supported devices" list. So, Integra and Denon can be integrated into AXhome, they just don't provide feedback today. I am working on a better process of integrating receivers as two-way devices, allowing anything with a module in our library to be added.

    Yes, the pieces you mention do utilize the same protocol, but if we don't express it that way, the question we get is "How come you don't support..."

    And...FWIW, The CD capacities on the Request devices are expressed as capacity based on bit-for-bit WAV file disc ripping. The F2.800 holds 6,250 CD's as 192 kb MP3 files.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Adam
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,900
    I work for AMX, and am responsible for bringing AMXhome to market.

    Audio/Video receivers are currently considered one-way devices in the context of AMXhome, and therefore are not part of the "supported devices" list. So, Integra and Denon can be integrated into AXhome, they just don't provide feedback today. I am working on a better process of integrating receivers as two-way devices, allowing anything with a module in our library to be added.

    Yes, the pieces you mention do utilize the same protocol, but if we don't express it that way, the question we get is "How come you don't support..."

    And...FWIW, The CD capacities on the Request devices are expressed as capacity based on bit-for-bit WAV file disc ripping. The F2.800 holds 6,250 CD's as 192 kb MP3 files.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Adam
    Cool, thanks for the explanation. bit-for-bit WAV, sheesh . . . 1 gig per CD? I've not ripped in WAV, so I wouldn't know to be honest . . . neither here nor there. I'll take your word. ;)

    BTW - I've gone back and changed some of my mistakes . . . I'm tired . . . thanks for the clarifications. :D
  • flcusatflcusat Junior Member Posts: 309
    I work for AMX, and am responsible for bringing AMXhome to market.

    Audio/Video receivers are currently considered one-way devices in the context of AMXhome, and therefore are not part of the "supported devices" list. So, Integra and Denon can be integrated into AXhome, they just don't provide feedback today. I am working on a better process of integrating receivers as two-way devices, allowing anything with a module in our library to be added.

    Adam

    Adam I think you should seriously consider adding A/V receivers and displays to the support device list (2-way) Those two devices are probably the two most used on any given residential set up and without having feedback, how do you expect to have a system working properly? There is not way to create a reliable macro that will include to turn on the display and go to the right input and the the same for the receiver. If every time you wan to watch a DVD for example, you need to send a power on command for both the receiver and the display, then a delay and then the appropriate input command for both of them, that is a long macro to execute, specially when some displays need between 7-15 seconds to accept and input command after they received the power on command.
  • TrikinCurtTrikinCurt Junior Member Posts: 158
    jjames wrote: »
    Cool, thanks for the explanation. bit-for-bit WAV, sheesh . . . 1 gig per CD? I've not ripped in WAV, so I wouldn't know to be honest . . . neither here nor there. I'll take your word. ;)

    BTW - I've gone back and changed some of my mistakes . . . I'm tired . . . thanks for the clarifications. :D

    Ah, I think I see where you are getting confused, it is Request that numbers based on WAV CAPACITY not hard drive capacity... The F4.800 has a 500 gig hard drive size. For what it worth, wav recording is usually considered 10megs per minute.

    Curt
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    vining wrote: »
    I got a demo from my REP and its is a very useful tool for those that aren't programmers or are just beginning so that the new dealers can sell systems w/o the $$$$$$$ it would cost to have AMX or some independent programmers to it for them. For a one time fee and unlimited usage which probably costs less than one time out sourced single job programming fee you get modest functionality w/ a decent GUI.
    It is my understanding that AMX will not (probably) sell this to a dealer without the dealer having at least one employee with AMX programmer certification. I was told that this package is designed to get new dealers off the ground and running quickly, but not to negate the need for a programmer. Part of me thinks that is an attempt to prevent existing programmers from flipping out at the whole idea. Part of my thinks this is the latest attempt to compete with some other control companies (Which makes me wonder what is happening with VA?)
    My overall impression with the product is the same as VA... if it can allow another company in our market to complete a functional job with AMX, then that is fine. It will raise awareness of AMX being a viable solution, and clients will very easily be able to distinguish the basic options available in the AMXHome offering as compared to the solutions my company offers. On the other hand, if all this does is allow unqualified dealers access to AMX products simply to raise sales figures (in the short term), it will flood our market with more disdain towards control systems and make our job more difficult. We have been working for the last 5 years constantly fighting the bad reputation that control systems had gotten in our market (and I have seen some VERY pathetic "completed" installs). Fortunately for us, the bad rep in our area has been associate with a certain C company, so builders/architects/interior designers would actually listen to us (even though they entered the conversation KNOWING that control systems are over priced and always under deliver ... if they even work at all). Up to this point, it seems like AMX is aware of this potential problem and has vowed to avoid such a scenario.

    As for my impression of this product as it's being pushed on us, I would say that they are definitely adding something to the Kool-aid (tm) over there in Houston. In talking with various AMX people, I felt like I was dealing with a stereotypical salesperson. The attitude seemed to be that EVERY dealer needs to buy this program because it will cure world hunger and you would be pure evil if you didn't spec this product on your next job. It seemed like the only goal was for each of them to sell a set quota of this product. There was no effort to understand the situation of the dealer, it was more like they knew what the situation was and AMX Home would fix it. It also came across that it is an accepted fact that no dealer currently has the ability to design such a portable solution. It was suggested that even the largest of jobs should be based off of this code, and there should be a focus to sell more of the small jobs that can use the code as is. If the dealer isn't going after these smaller jobs, then they are stupid. This of course is just my impression of the whole thing. I understand the business end of this, but it really didn't seem like the AMX corporation that I know and respect.

    I did meet with Adam for a while and I must say that I did not get that impression from him. It was a good conversation and it seems like Adam understands where AMX is lacking in the residential market. It also felt like Adam was truly interested in dealer opinions and needs. I look forward to seeing what AMX Resi brings to the market, but can we please call off the Stepford sales people? :)

    Jeff
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    flcusat wrote: »
    Adam I think you should seriously consider adding A/V receivers and displays to the support device list (2-way) Those two devices are probably the two most used on any given residential set up and without having feedback, how do you expect to have a system working properly? There is not way to create a reliable macro that will include to turn on the display and go to the right input and the the same for the receiver. If every time you wan to watch a DVD for example, you need to send a power on command for both the receiver and the display, then a delay and then the appropriate input command for both of them, that is a long macro to execute, specially when some displays need between 7-15 seconds to accept and input command after they received the power on command.

    I don't disagree, Pedro.

    I would be interested to get a gauge on how many display devices function in such a manner when they are already on. That has not been my experience, both historically and in practice with AMXhome. The system is designed as it is today based on the theory that the common display devices used in the industry offer discrete power on and off commands as well as discrete input switching, as do the majority of the receivers used in the channel.

    All that being said, the goal is to address the issue as you suggested, and develop a process (and the subsequent code behind it) in which the integration of a module is straight forward and provides consistent functionality.

    Adam
  • flcusatflcusat Junior Member Posts: 309
    I don't disagree, Pedro.

    I would be interested to get a gauge on how many display devices function in such a manner when they are already on. That has not been my experience, both historically and in practice with AMXhome. The system is designed as it is today based on the theory that the common display devices used in the industry offer discrete power on and off commands as well as discrete input switching, as do the majority of the receivers used in the channel.

    All that being said, the goal is to address the issue as you suggested, and develop a process (and the subsequent code behind it) in which the integration of a module is straight forward and provides consistent functionality.

    Adam


    Adam I just check the GUI for AMX home at it looks like in the Media Room tab you have buttons to power the different devices, when you press and hold the button for a particular source, but I don't know how this is actually implemented in code ( I guess I'll know tomorrow).
    May be I didn't express my self properly but I was referring to the displays' delay in the terms of a macro. Once the displays are on, they take the inputs commands immediately. But when they are off you need a delay that sometimes could be up to 15 seconds for the display to accept an input command.
  • flcusatflcusat Junior Member Posts: 309


    All that being said, the goal is to address the issue as you suggested, and develop a process (and the subsequent code behind it) in which the integration of a module is straight forward and provides consistent functionality.

    Adam

    So, at this moment adding existig modules to AMXHome is not available?
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    Spire_Jeff wrote: »
    It is my understanding that AMX will not (probably) sell this to a dealer without the dealer having at least one employee with AMX programmer certification. I was told that this package is designed to get new dealers off the ground and running quickly, but not to negate the need for a programmer. Part of me thinks that is an attempt to prevent existing programmers from flipping out at the whole idea. Part of my thinks this is the latest attempt to compete with some other control companies (Which makes me wonder what is happening with VA?)
    My overall impression with the product is the same as VA... if it can allow another company in our market to complete a functional job with AMX, then that is fine. It will raise awareness of AMX being a viable solution, and clients will very easily be able to distinguish the basic options available in the AMXHome offering as compared to the solutions my company offers. On the other hand, if all this does is allow unqualified dealers access to AMX products simply to raise sales figures (in the short term), it will flood our market with more disdain towards control systems and make our job more difficult. We have been working for the last 5 years constantly fighting the bad reputation that control systems had gotten in our market (and I have seen some VERY pathetic "completed" installs). Fortunately for us, the bad rep in our area has been associate with a certain C company, so builders/architects/interior designers would actually listen to us (even though they entered the conversation KNOWING that control systems are over priced and always under deliver ... if they even work at all). Up to this point, it seems like AMX is aware of this potential problem and has vowed to avoid such a scenario.

    As for my impression of this product as it's being pushed on us, I would say that they are definitely adding something to the Kool-aid (tm) over there in Houston. In talking with various AMX people, I felt like I was dealing with a stereotypical salesperson. The attitude seemed to be that EVERY dealer needs to buy this program because it will cure world hunger and you would be pure evil if you didn't spec this product on your next job. It seemed like the only goal was for each of them to sell a set quota of this product. There was no effort to understand the situation of the dealer, it was more like they knew what the situation was and AMX Home would fix it. It also came across that it is an accepted fact that no dealer currently has the ability to design such a portable solution. It was suggested that even the largest of jobs should be based off of this code, and there should be a focus to sell more of the small jobs that can use the code as is. If the dealer isn't going after these smaller jobs, then they are stupid. This of course is just my impression of the whole thing. I understand the business end of this, but it really didn't seem like the AMX corporation that I know and respect.

    I did meet with Adam for a while and I must say that I did not get that impression from him. It was a good conversation and it seems like Adam understands where AMX is lacking in the residential market. It also felt like Adam was truly interested in dealer opinions and needs. I look forward to seeing what AMX Resi brings to the market, but can we please call off the Stepford sales people? :)

    Jeff


    Hey Jeff,
    The message you received is not consistent with the message that was developed for AMXhome. There is no expectation that AMXhome is the be all end all to system design. While I truly believe there is value in AMXhome, it is not for everyone or every system, and there most definitely are businesses that utilize these same business practices today. Many of these businesses have been a template for the current solution and roadmap for the future direction. The goal of AMXhome is not to bring on as many new dealers as possible, and drive short term revenue, pigeonholing (yes...it's a word...I looked it up) every installation into its narrowed scope. The goal is two fold:

    1. Engage new dealers and provide them with the tools to help them be more successful in a shorter timeframe.

    2. Encourage existing dealers (if they aren't doing so already today) to identify with the end to end process and work toward executing such a process within their own business.

    We know the process is effective and can lead to a more efficient and profitable business. The best way for us to demonstrate that is to provide the tools ourselves and encourage people to utilize them. Even for customers that don't purchase AMXhome, there is benefit from understanding the process which it follows.

    Sell what you can deliver. Deliver what you sell.

    That is the key to customer satisfaction. Customer staisfaction is what drives a positive message for the industry as a whole. That is the essence of what we are trying to communicate with AMXhome. If a dealer finds that their current process is not resulting in that end customer satisfaction, then perhaps AMXhome is a valuable tool for them. Even if it isn't right for them, hopefully they can take away some knowledge to assist them in developing their own process that is.

    Adam
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    flcusat wrote: »
    Adam I just check the GUI for AMX home at it looks like in the Media Room tab you have buttons to power the different devices, when you press and hold the button for a particular source, but I don't know how this is actually implemented in code ( I guess I'll know tomorrow).
    May be I didn't express my self properly but I was referring to the displays' delay in the terms of a macro. Once the displays are on, they take the inputs commands immediately. But when they are off you need a delay that sometimes could be up to 15 seconds for the display to accept an input command.

    Macros can be created and associated with the source selection page, and the development of such macros is a part of the training process.

    Adam
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    flcusat wrote: »
    So, at this moment adding existig modules to AMXHome is not available?

    You can always add a module, if you have the knowledge to do so. However, AMXhome is designed today to not need to utilize modules outside of the "supported" two way devices that are already intregated. Devices that are added, are added using IR files or entering the serial strings for the particular device.

    Adam
  • Joe HebertJoe Hebert Junior Member Posts: 2,154
    there is benefit from understanding the process which it follows.

    Sell what you can deliver. Deliver what you sell.

    That is the key to customer satisfaction. Customer satisfaction is what drives a positive message for the industry as a whole.
    Amen Brother Adam! :)
  • thomodthomod Junior Member Posts: 11
    Hi Eric,
    What devices in the marketing PDF's are you referring to?

    Thanks for that list Adam, in my list of supported devices, it referenced the 5200 and 8400 panel but not the R4 (which is in the dist. audio pdf but you already addressed this earlier). And the whole home control pdf has the Optima matrix switch as well.

    thanks again
  • Adam GershonAdam Gershon Moderator Posts: 23
    thomod wrote: »
    Thanks for that list Adam, in my list of supported devices, it referenced the 5200 and 8400 panel but not the R4 (which is in the dist. audio pdf but you already addressed this earlier). And the whole home control pdf has the Optima matrix switch as well.

    thanks again

    The R4 is not "offically" on the list, but an AMXhome interface is currently available for it. We are working on a new interface, and once completed, it would be added to the list of supported devices. I hesitate to call the touchpanels supported devices, as they are really all supported, though some revamping may be necessary to get the appropriate look and feel.

    Because the protocol is the same for different models in the Autopatch line, technically, the Optima switcher is supported, even though it is not specifically called out in the device list. It probably was not the ideal choice for the marketing brochure...It looks good though!

    Adam
  • ImpaqtImpaqt Junior Member Posts: 155
    Guess I'll bring this back to the top since it seems to have died.... Probobly should o l ooked this thread up before making my purchase into The AMXHome Stuff....

    I'm in the middle of my first project with this system. Being a AMX Programmer for over 6 years now, the idea of somthing that could be put together quickly and repeatedly was very attractive. I'm a good coder... But my GUI design skills leave a lot to be desired.... Having a package that put the code and the gui together seems like a great idea....

    5 Months without a Reply to this thread...... Interesting......

    Anyway, I'm working through all kinds of interface issues on the job I'm on..... I think I'm taxing the realistic capabiities of the template with the job we're working on though. That seems to be causing a LOT of issues on my end. It also doesnt help that the salesman on the job is Change order Happy.....

    I'll update more if anyone is interested once the job is complete.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,354
    Have you thought of just buying full TP designs or parts from places like GUI FX?

    http://www.guifx.com/

    There's free stuff there too like a TV channel icon button maker thingy, you can buy sounds, buttons and entire TP graphics, backgrounds, etc.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,900
    I just saw the new Versa theme . . . pretty wicked. We bought the FlexTheme . . . not happy with it though.
  • tobygagliotobygaglio Junior Member Posts: 5
    Just wondering, but does anyone have a more current list of supported products? Like the pdf on the first page.

    Thanks in advance

    Toby
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    vining wrote: »
    Have you thought of just buying full TP designs or parts from places like GUI FX?

    http://www.guifx.com/

    There's free stuff there too like a TV channel icon button maker thingy, you can buy sounds, buttons and entire TP graphics, backgrounds, etc.

    The channel icon maker isn't free anymore. It's now part of a suite that licenses for $199. Still a bargain, I think, but if you aren't using the rest of the suite, it may be hard to justify, especially since making buttons isnt that time consuming if you already have transparent background icons.
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