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******** vs. amx

do many of you guys work with ******** as well as AMX? If so, have you noticed a swing in the amount of AMX you are installing vs. ********? Whose product line do you like better? Are there any reasons to use ******** over AMX? thanks.



  • last message

    apparently you can't post the word

    on this message board because my last message was "censored." LOL....these guys have all the bases covered. i guess they didn't get voted the best place to work in DFW for nothing.
  • jeffacojeffaco Posts: 121
    Ease to work with for dealers?

    For whatever reason, my dealer in the Pacific NW doesn't do business with AMX (they use the other guys). Their issue is mostly historical: Some time ago, they found AMX to be quite difficult to work with, so they jumped ship and found that the ******** folks (censored by me!) were really easy to work with.

    Since then (corporate name change - and back), management changes, etc, AMX might have been easier. But my dealer never had much reason to reconsider their decision.

    In general, end customers don't seem to care. They want an automation system that works. If it's ******** or AMX, most end customers don't know the difference ...
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Posts: 4,584
    Judging from what I have heard from other A/V dealers in the area, many have preferred C******* because 1) they could get a better profit margin (so they say, I would think a skilled sales staff could do as well with either), and 2) they don't know how to code and they could get the C******* products up and running faster. I always figured that was why the Design Express line came out - to appeal to those who are used to drag-and-drop programming, or getting something running without prior experience or training, and, essentially, to lure them away from C*******.

    It's actually that exact thing that makes me dislike C*******. You are stuck with canned solutions, and limited by the constraints of the "easy" programming interface. I like the fact that I can make an AMX product do exactly what I want it to do.
  • thanks for the response

    thanks for the response.
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    Hi Brian
    About a month ago I sent a private e-mail to a guy about this exact same question, AMX vs 'THEM'. The person who I won't mention sells both product lines and I felt he could give me a true un-biased view of these two companies. My department uses AMX for all our Multi-media classroom but another department has decided to go with 'THEM'.(strictly politics). The info that I was given was very good and without saying to much, this person perferred AMX for a number of reasons. Some things were the level of difficulty just to change a model/make of an IR device. AMX is much much easier. The drag/dope(I mean drop) software can be a real pain on larger systems and with all of the little symbols, it can get real difficult to follow. 'THEM' do have a larger product line but is it really beneficial? I have been using AMX for over 10 years and can honestly say that I have had very little issuses with the company and find the people that work there very helpful/ polite. There are a few things that I would like to see AMX do in the future and maybe they will. One of the best things they have done is to create this forum and to take the time out to listen what we the dealers/users have to say.
  • thanks for the response thomas

    your insight is appreciated. what is it that you would like to see amx add/change?

  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    Hi Brian
    I would like to see a controller with a 2-channel volume control built in. This would mean 1 less box to buy and mount. AMX could even package it with a small TP and you have a complete system ready for installation. I know 'THEM' have a similar system that also includes a matrix switcher, but I personnelly don't like a box that does everything because if it goes down your out of luck. Another thing is the way dealers are setup. I'm not sure about the USA but my local dealer has exclusive rights. This is fine because we have a good relationship with them(I use to work for them before here) but what if you don't have a good relationship with your dealer? Do you go to 'THEM' just because of the dealer not doing their job or you had a bad dealings with them in the past on another product line(Ex: they sell you some bad VCR's and won't stand behind them).
  • trobertstroberts Posts: 228
    I love AMX but those other guys have such better and more user friendly user interfaces. In order to keep up AMX must come out with better UIs. TXCs always wear out. There need to be a better alternative to the TXC. We need a "clicker" that works and is ergonomial!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Brian,

    The problem with most answers you get when you ask your question is that most people cannot separate their emotions from the truth. I worked for AMX for 7 years before I went independent. I now program for both product lines. I still know a lot of people at AMX and love their support and product lines. While the two companies certainly offer different products, they are both as easy or hard to program, depending on your skill level and which type of programming method you understand. Both companies have excellent technical support and both have quality products. Yes, they do ship boxes out that don't work from time to time, but neither is any better or worse than the other guy. Depending on the system requirements, you might be able to find that one might be lower cost than the other guy. However, if you were to do an honest evaluation, you'd probably find that the next system or the one after that is exactly the opposite. While AMX doesn't have as many products as their competitor, many dealers find that they use third party devices any way and it doesn't hurt their sales at all.

    The bottom line is that with either system, you simply need to find the products that best meet your customer's needs at the right price. If you understand programming of control systems, you can work with either one.

    Don't let an emotional sales person or programmer try to tell you that one is better than the other. It simply isn't true.

    Hope this helps.
    Sheldon Samuels
    IPS Resources LLC
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    Here's something about THEM that I just found out. You can NOT receive the source code from the master.(unless a copy is in the mail box). Once the code is compiled and sent, that's it. If you loss the code forget it.(Probley the reason they made their programming quicker with drag&drop) Just a FYI that may or may not mean anything, unless you loss your files.
  • does that indicate that THEY are less flexible with the installers?
  • FrankieFrankie Posts: 71
    you can NOT receive the tp either!!
  • That doesn't necessarily make them a lesser supplier. I don't normally load the program into the system unless the dealer requests that I do. As an independent, I don't know if the dealer wants the end-user to have access to the code at all. I'll give the dealer the source code on disk, but I rarely load it into the processor. So what difference does it make?
  • Like Sheldon I too program both C***** and AMX. Although I've done many more AMX jobs over the last 10 years, the last 2-3 years has seen a huge change for me and the folks who hire me as an independent. I became certified as a C*****CAIP a year ago and that certification has certainly brought me work. I have gone from 100% AMX to 10% AMX, 90% C****. That's just what's happened in the field I'm in (mostly residential but some commercial as well)

    I think both systems are equally capable but just different in approach, and each has their areas where they're better than the other, but not by miles. Which do I prefer? I feel lucky that I do both and have fun doing either system. Netlinx to Simpl+ is a relatively minor change, so you can always write stuff in code if you want (but you may well find you can do it faster in logic symbols once you get up to speed).
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    I think what really hurt AMX a few years back and Crest*** really jumped on it was the Panja name change. I'm glad that things are back on track at AMX and their showing some real profit. I personnally haven't done enough Cr******* programming to give it a fair eval. Last year our department tried Cre****** and out sourced the programming to a company who's owner is Cr****** certified to the nams. Its been almost 1 year and we are still after him to finish correctly the job. I even ended up doing all of the icons for the TP for them. Some day I will have to look at one of their manuals about how to program.
  • panja

    do you think amx has fully recovered from the panja debacle? what do you think about control 4?
  • control4

    has anyone used control4? any thoughts on it? i believe some of the control4 guys came from amx (from the phast acquisition).
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    Your correct, some of the people come from Phast. I have heard of them but since most of my jobs are commercial based(education) I never really bothered to check them out. Althought it nevers hurts to have some healthy competition.
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    What would really make people sit up and take notice if AMX was to convert a major Cres**** user to AMX. It might mean lossing a few $$ at first but the gain could be well worth the expense. As stated before the departmental manager and assistant director decided that they MUST go Cres**** because of some issues that were not being resolved fast enough for their liking. Also I must admit that Cres**** was barking very load and made some really big promises. Their sales guy is very aggressive and wants to have EVERY UNIVERSITY IN EASTERN CANADA CRES**** . If AMX had this guy then things would be turned 180'. Spannertech said how he has noticed a change in the sales from a few years ago. It can't all be caused by the Panja change, so what is it? I know my costing on AMX is a LOT better that Cres****'s. The products are both good quality.
    Aggressive sales people who aren't pushy but get the job done and follow up. I know that I see the national manager more than my local AMX dealer.
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    Maybe AMX should re-evaluate some of their dealers and add another dealer in some areas. Not to compete against the other dealer but to get clients that would not normally deal with the existing dealer. Just some thoughts to start the ball rolling.
  • Here's a good one. My manager who has been pushing CRES**** down my throat for the last year and bought 19 pieces last year just had a very rude awakening. Last Thursday we had a campus wide power outage followed by a surge. The result : all 86 AMX/Netlinx came back online(had to manually reset a Axcent III because it lost communication with TP) without a hitch. One Cres**** PRO2 toasted, 7 others in Ottawa the same thing and the dealer says that he's NOT covering any of them under warranty.$$$$$ For the price of these units you would think they could handle a little more. P.S all of our equipment is surged protected and there were 2 other PRO2's in the same rack. I also know of another Universitya few hours away from here that has had the same related issues with these boxesgetting toasted easliy. Lesson: always use a good UPS/ surge protector on the box.
  • AMX definately has not recovered from the Panja debacle - At that time they not only opened the door for the NJ folks; They pushed dealers through it with product shortages and QA issues. It will take a long time for them to recover, if ever.

    Fortunately AMX has done a good job with new products and their reliability seems to be what it should be and if they can get their sales efforts in line, they may even stand a chance to gain some customers back. You would think that they could use some of those profits to muscle their way into reviving a lot of their lost business. In my area they seem to continue to loose dealers to the C*** folks....
  • marketing efforts

    are AMX's marketing efforts not strong on the residential side of the business right now?
  • I'm not sure about residential as most of my projects and contacts are comercial AV related. My impression is that AMX's residential business can only go up (?).
  • I know that we have no residential dealers here in Ottawa and Cre***** is taking advantage of it. If I wasn't already working at a really good place then I'd love to become a dealer.
  • Here in Colorado it's a mixed bag, ******** and AMX. I deal strictly in residential and let me tell you business is booming. AMX is a grreat solution for resi jobs. The Picture Frame alone gets past the Wife factor. But I still see AMX losing ground over ********. And I really think it comes down to upfront pricing.
  • Thomas HayesThomas Hayes Posts: 1,164
    The pricing must be really different here in Canada because AMX always comes in cheaper, or our dealer is giving us great pricing. With this new take over perhaps AMX will be able to lower their prices a little and increase their sales.
  • From the land of Oz..

    In Australia the prices can come out roughly the same but I am an AMX fan so even if it does come out more expensive than C******n then that is ok as I just remind the customer of the support and flexibility that I am able to offer them.

    Not to mention that AMX is a far sexier product and everyone knows that sex sells :)

    BTW: Great Forum AMX.
    The Big Showdown !

    I have been designing & programming both brands of systems for many years.

    We are a dealer for both as well.

    I have watched both companies over the years as they have always been neck-in-neck with hardware and software. Face the fact, either systems can perform the same functionality as the other, and costs of the systems are also very comparable in $$$.

    My personal preferences do come into play when I design a new system for a customer. My goal is to select the best system for that particular application along with profitability for my employer.

    In a years time, we probably integrate 50/50 of each brand.

    I think BOTH systems have their own respective PROS & CONS including hardware and software issues. Both companies also have very educated and knowledgable tech support personnel.

    I do not hold a higher dedication to either brand of control system.

    I refuse to let reps and factory sales people convice me that one is better than the other. They can beat on each other all they want. But the fact of the matter is that I am the designer/programmer/integrator, and I have to deal with the project on a daily basis and after the fact. So the end-all choice falls into my lap.

    It is nice to have a choice!

  • GSLogicGSLogic Posts: 562
    I've seen local companies start using Crest over AMX just because the Crest sales rep was very aggressive and they have the ability to spend more money on dinners and t-shirts.

    My good friend is a Cres regional rep and he calls me once a month to get me to go to the dark side. I'm waiting as he keeps increasing the kitty, he sends me t-shirts and glow pens all the time (my kids love the glow pens and the t-shirts work great when I wash my car! :)

    I think AMX needs to go after the residental market more. In time to come this will be the biggest income.
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