New User - May be a loser!

visoundguy

Hi All,

Just purchased a Driverack PA at the prompting of a friend who felt I could eliminate a bunch of stuff in my rack. I also was tempted by the RTA capabilities as I'm a newbie at using an EQ and had nothing to EQ a room with. I've done everything the hard way - and thought this thing would offer push-button convenience.

I have (at least) 2 problems: 1. I didn't do my homework. 2. I have custom built (in my basement) speakers and 4 Samson SX 2800 amps. I have homebult Dual 18 subs, 2ea 2 X 15 mains with horns, and 2, custom built 2 X 8\" speakers to fill out the mid highs!

I can get my setup to sound pretty darn good Manually, but it's very inconsistent and I had hoped to gain more consistency and a bit more headroom with this unit.

My question is - since I have a homebuilt rig, should I even bother with trying to set this up, or is it a waste of time? If I should give it a go, I'd like some advice as to where to start. If I should give it up, I have a Driverack PA for sale!

Thanks for any help you can give.

kpippen

Hello visoundguy

No problem,...and yes the DRPA will make a significant difference... Do you have the specs on the drivers or the cabs that you built in regards to frequency response?... Also,...I would like to know the number of drivers in each cab and the total impedance (4 or 8 ohms) of each cab... Also,...can you give me the specs on your amps... How many amps are you using for subs, mids and highs?... Are they used in stereo or bridge mono mode?... I can give you a good custom starting point for your DRPA if you can give me a good idea in how your system is used and what it's capable of... So basically,...the more info, specs, etc., you can provide the better...:)

Just looked at your amp... It appears to be a QSC RMX2450 clone,...just like the Behringer EP2500 and several others...:)

Kev

PS. Dra and Gadget take a break,...I'll field this one...:)

visoundguy

I know, most pros would call this junk. But I didn't have the bling to go out and buy the good stuff. I started from Scratch and it actually sounds pretty good - compared to what I've heard out there. The woofers are not EV, or Peavey, or any other brand name - yes, Generic from China or wherever (when the band starts getting paid, I'll upgrade).

So here it goes:

I’m using 1 SX 2800 in Bridged mode for each Dual 18 subs
I’m using 1 SX 2800 in Stereo on the 2X15 mains
I’m using 1 SX 2800 in Stereo on the Highs

I’m using an active crossover on the mids and highs

I’m using a Sub output on for the subs on my EQ – Behringer FBQ3102

Here are the specs on my Home-Builts:

2 ea Cabs – 2X8 speakers with 2 8� woofers and 1 tweeter in each cab

8� Woofer specs
· Type: 8\" Woofer/Speaker
· Power RMS: 75 Watts
· Power Peak: 150 Watts
· Frequency Response: 60-5K Hz
· Sensitivity: 94 db
· Magnet: 30 oz
· Voice Coil: 2\"
· Impedance: 8 Ohm
· Die Cast Aluminum Chassis
· Paper cone
1.5� titanium drivers

RMS Power 50
Peak Power 100
Ohm 8
Efficiency 102db
Frequency Response 1.5khz-20khz +/- 6db
Voice coil/Diaphragm 1.5\"
Magnet Size 20oz.
Type Diaphragm Titanium
Throat Size 1\"
Other Ferro Fluid cooled

2ea 2X15 cabs – modeled after the Peavey 2X 15 cabs

Woofers:
15 inch woofer with cloth accordion edge. 35 to 2k Hz. Average sensitivity at 1w/1m=100. Magnet weight is 130 ounces, 8 OHM, 500 watts rms, 1000 watts peak. 4 inch voice coil. size 15.25\" x 5.75\" , Weight 25 lbs

Tweeters
1.5� titanium drivers

RMS Power 50
Peak Power 100
Ohm 8
Efficiency 102db
Frequency Response 1.5khz-20khz +/- 6db
Voice coil/Diaphragm 1.5\"
Magnet Size 20oz.
Type Diaphragm Titanium
Throat Size 1\"
Other Ferro Fluid cooled


2 X Dual 18s

18 woofers:

18 inch woofer with cloth accordion edge. 25 to 2k Hz. Average sensitivity at 1w/1m=100. Magnet weight is 130 ounces, 8 OHM, 500 watts rms, 1000 watts peak. 4 inch voice coil. Outside diameter 18.75� Minimum cutout size 17.00�. Size 18.75\" x 8.0\" , Weight 27 lbs

kpippen

visoundguy,

I'm assuming that your 2X8s and 2X15s are passive with their own crossovers?...

Kev

visoundguy

That would be correct.

kpippen

visoundguy,

No problem... Please be patient while I cook you something up... It will take a little while...:)

Kev

visoundguy

I also want to say, before we go any farther - You Guys Rock!

Thank you for putting up with us Newbies and doing your best to help. It's above and beyond the call!

It's very appreciated.

kpippen

Hello visoundguy,

Thank you for recognizing the DBX user group!... Obviously you understand that we donate our time to help others... We all need help at one time or another (an understatement for me :? ),...and besides \"to teach is to learn\"...:)

The following suggestions are only my opinions or personal preference... When setting up a system like this there are going to be trade-offs...and the main goal is to come-up with something that sounds great to you...

I would use a custom 2X5 stereo with mono sub configuration as illustrated below... I used the DR260 DriveWare Wizard to configure this custom 2X5 as a starting point...

2X8s in Stereo:
HPF 108Hz L-R24dB/Oct
LPF Out BS6dB/Oct
Gain 0dB or maybe -1dB if to much on highs

Note: The following is very radical and unorthodox but I know from personal experience that your system will kick a** if your 2X15s and dual 18 subs are in phase... If you don't like the way it sounds you can always set your 2X15s the same as your 2X8s...:)

2X15s in Stereo:
HPF 72Hz (or 108Hz) L-R24dB/Oct
LPF Out BS6dB/Oct
Gain 0dB

Dual 18s Bridge Mono:
HPF 41Hz BW18dB/Oct
LPF 105Hz L-R24dB/Oct
Gain +3dB

I suggest a \"3dB boost\" for your subs... Personally,...I love lots of earthmoving, chest-thumping bass...8)

I recommend that you click here and download the DriveWare GUI... Play around with the DriveWare and get yourself familiar with it... These settings should work...but you will need to key them manually with the DRPA... I would read the DRPA manual but it's assumed that the user has prior experience with PA systems... Sit at the kitchen table, poke around, and get familiar with the menus and screens… You may also want to look at the \"Training Modules\"... The tab is located at the top right of this screen... I also recommend that you read Gadget's \"Heartfelt Welcome\" post in the FAQs Start Here category and setup your gain structure...

It's not going to sound “great� until you set the gain structure, the time delay, and phase between the subs and tops, and perform an Auto-EQ (for inside use only) with the RTA mic... If you perform the Auto-EQ only enable one side (mute the other), adjust the gain (volume in this case) to the venue listening level, and use the fast mode... Once it has completed set everything (in the GEQ) from 0-100Hz flat (at 0dB) and adjust everything from 7kHz and above to suite your taste...





Cheers,

Kevin

PS: Please post back and let me know how it turns out...

visoundguy

Wow! Thanks for the extensive analysis! I will attempt these settings this weekend.

I do already parallel the Subs and agree this is how it produces the best chest thump.

I'll let you know how it goes.

By the way, these amps really put out. I already can make people's ears bleed! But I want to go for some quality now instead of volume!

Thanks for your help, and I will certainly post back.

kpippen

visoundguy,

I installed nine of the Behringer EP2500s at our church's youth center... And it appears that the SX2800 is pretty much the same animal... Yes,...I bet they cook!!!

Cheers and good luck!...:D

Kev

kpippen

Hey visoundguy,

I'm curious...how did it go?....

Kevin

visoundguy

Sorry - still didn't get to set up this weekend - but I did spend some time playing with the driverack unit and I encountered an issue.

When I select a 2X5 configuration on the Driverack PA, And I go in to manually configure the crossover, I can only set the HPF level on the high channel. The LPF is defaulted to OUT and I can't adjust it. I assume that's OK since that's the specs you gave me. But I was curious as to why this was? On the 260 Driveware, you can set the HPF and LPF on the High channel!

The Mids and lows are fine.

Am I doing something wrong?

Gadget

No, that would be because the \"LPF for the high channel doesn't exist.. there is no filter... the horns will be allowed to reproduce what they can in the upper register.. that would be said to go to out...
G

visoundguy

Then why does the 260 allow you to fine tune with a low pass filter on the Highs? Does this just not exist on the PA?

Fanman20

Dollars you pay ???

Dra

Yes, in the end it boils down to $. The advantage of the filter is that if the driver can't reproduce it, but still tries, it COULD cause some extra work and create sonic variances.
If you want or need those freqs to be filtered, just set up a High-Shelf in the PEQs. This only works if you have one still available.

DRA

kpippen

The more I learn about the DRPA the more I wonder why DBX offers it...:? Obviously there's a large market for it...and it's a great piece of equipment for the $money$...:D But in comparison to the DR260 I think it affirms the old adage that \"you get what you pay for\"...:(

Dra

It could be that the DRPA lures them in and then they see how much better the 260 is. Then DBX has sold 2 units instead of one. Method to the madness? May be. Plus, the DRPA is geared to the DJ market. And if you don't have a low end item, then Ber****ger will snatch it all up.

Side note: a repair tech said things are not looking up for B****ger. Some of the big boys are looking to file piracy conplaints. I didn't understand the whole thing but it peaked my interest.

DRA

kpippen

Dra wrote:

Side note: a repair tech said things are not looking up for B****ger. Some of the big boys are looking to file piracy conplaints. I didn't understand the whole thing but it peaked my interest.

Dra,..I have heard the same thing... In my opinion the only BEH gear that posses any threat is their amps... It really surprises me how many RMX**** clones there are... I guess it shows that QSC "did it right" when they developed the RMX family...:D

Dra

He said the only reason B*****ger doesn't have a facility here (US) is that that they would be sued out of existance. He also said, if I remember right, that they stole some proprietary code or something for some outboard gear as well from DBX. Code implies an inside job.

Some how they have signed an agreement with the EU and are being \"protected\". And QSC, DBX, etc are going to put their foot down with the EU and are lobbying congress to add huge tariffs so that instead of a $200 difference between the 2450 & 2500 it will closer to $20. Then if you are going to buy an amp, it is no longer worth it to save only $20.
I seem to be remembering more of the conversation.

DRA

kpippen

It will be interesting to see what happens... The Yamaha P7000S tickles my fancy nowadays... It's been around a while, it's relatively \"light\" in weight, and it puts out 3200 watts of grunt in 4-ohm bridge...

Hey,...it looks like we bought a building today...

Dra

Cool on the building.

G recommended (one of several) the P7000S. From what I read (PSW, gear house reviews, and Yamaha site), it is VERY reliable, but is weak on damping (under 200) and several on PSW love the amp, but not for sub duty. Most prefer a \"real\" power supply for subs, not the new light weight ones.

Later,
DRA

kpippen

You mean like this one?... Check out the damping factor, THD, S/N, 3850 watts in 4-ohm bridge...according to the specs it has it all...but check out the weight...:shock:

Dra

Yikes, As always though, manf use specs to sell and they use different reference points. For example, the LOBO uses 1K to get that >800 figure. I've never seen one rated that high (hz). Most, if a spec is listed at all, will reference 200-500hz. Crown Macro >1000 at 400hz. Most amps I've seen are in the 200 - 500 damping range. Some say it don't mean a thing, others say it means everything. From what I understand (which ain't much :? ) damping is the measurement of how quickly the power supply is able to rebuild energy for the next release. Now I know what you're thinking... If it is time based then lower numbers would be better. Well, if you are going to be that way just forget it. Appearantly, although time is part of it (maybe a constant in the formula), the measurement is of something else (like potential, or acceleration, or ....wait for it..... How longer it takes to get Radar a date with a hair drier 8) )

DRA

kpippen

Here's a good explaination: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor

Dra

Thanks! :roll:
Now I understand it less.
One of those \"Is, but it ain't. Except on Tuesday, and the occasional Wednesday is barometric pressure is below 67.7mb.\"

DRA

kpippen

It's kinda like when I was a kid and my dad would grab me by my earlobe... The tighter he squeezed the more control he had... He definitely had a \"high damping factor\"!..

Dra

Anyone ever show you how a turkey looks over a fence?

kpippen

Nope,...How does a turkey look over a fence?...

Dra

Take your thumb and index finger and firmly grasp as much hair at the base of the hairline on the back of the neck as possible and pull straight up.

kpippen

Sounds like a dad thing!...