New User.Seaker selection

underwood7582

Hey guys. I know this is a PA discussion area but after several attempts at writing different companies I have turned to you guys. I own a DRPA and was wanting to get some new speakers but I just dont know what to get. They will be installed in a church that seats about 425 jammed packed. We have alot of old folks but we need some speakers that will crank if neccesary. Of course. Im sure thats all in how I set it up. But I would like a sweet, smooth sounding speaker. Very seldom does a live band play in it.Maybe twice a year.Anyways, the speakers will be hanging on each side of the pulpit about 30 feet apart and there is between 60 to 75 feet to the back wall. Of course its a soundmans nightmare by being a square with just a smudge of a rectangle shape. (I hope you understand that). ANyways. Please help guys. Iv'e looked at the JBL,Peavey,EAW,just cant make up my mind.My price range is between 400 and 600 bucks per speaker.If you think a Sub would help,throw some info about them and what you think also. Thanks alot for any input.HELP ME MAKE UP MY MIND.

Fanman20

Greetings underwood7582 and welcome

I used 2 x EV SX300 speakers and 1x KX 1.5 sub last Sunday and it sounded great
(Might get away with EV SX100)


EV SX 300
http://www.electrovoice.com/products/202.html

Sub
http://www.kxaudio.com/products.asp?ProdID=KX1.5

Personally I would streer clear of JBL and Behringer
Just my 2 cents worth

Mark

underwood7582

Thanks alot man.The Kx sub must be a foreign sub. Cant find any info about it in the states. I noticed you are from Australia. Im from Alabama. It was neat about the SX300 website you gave me. Look at it and it talks about the Muscle Shoals school..Thats like 45 minutes from my house, though I have never heard them.The EV SX300 looks like a nice speaker. Ill check into that. Why would you shy away from the JBL. We have JBLs in our life center. Cant tell you want kind but I know that we have 3 of them which were $1000 a piece and they sound great. I have heard their lower end equipment isnt that wonderful though. Maybe thats what your talking about. I will look into the EV SX300's.. Any more sugg? Thanks guys.

Fanman20

Hi underwood7582

The subs are from KV2 audio
http://kv2audio.com/products.asp

I think they are a UK product??

Depending on the music you may not need subs (About $2000 Aus each) They are an active sub

http://cgi.ebay.com/EV-SX300-SX-300-PAI ... dZViewItem

Good luck

Some of the boys on this site also are not keen to JBL
Will let thm tell their story
Mark

underwood7582

Hey Fanman20

Thanks for the fast reply.
I think the Sub may be out my price range but I am definately looking for one. I think that it will clean the sound up alot. Its a little muddy right now with the speakers we have. Im ashamed to say what they are. lol.
Yeah, I have seen some comments about the JBL's but nothing other than the usual \"dont get them\". Never heard anyone say why. Maybe Ill get some feeback from people along with there suggestions as to what speakers they prefer. And maybe what Sub they like that wont kill my budget.
Thanks again.

Fanman20

Hi
The good thing about an \"active\" sub is that you get a speaker and a amp. (as well as the amp is matched to the speaker)

Buying a passive sub you then need to buy a amp to match and in my experience it works out having to pay more for two items.

The bad part of active subs is the weight.(amp and speaker together)

Both ways has their pros and cons

Price them out . Love to hear the results

I have been using Bose 802's in my church, Last week with the SX 300, the sound was much better,

Why you ask???????

Well the Bose 802's are cone loaded speakers (8 x 4 inch speakers) where the SX300 are horn loaded. Speech intelligibility was way better. (only if the sermon is good)

Mark

PS

Im ashamed to say what they are

Come on, what are they (We all have had bad speaker from time to time) :oops:

Dra

Let guess... the old Peavey PA column?

Northern Alabama? Attalla here (Gadsden)

The speakers are hanging? Are they angled down about 30 degrees. If not, when you install the new ones, do that. Big IF... If re-rigging is possible, re-hang in a center cluster. Better sound AND better source perception.

DRA

underwood7582

DRA, Attalla ..Thanks again Fanman for you input.

Crap.. How much would I have to pay you to drive 30 minutes to Rainsville Dra..lol.. Nazareth Baptist Church..Save me alot of headache. Anyways..Well we are using and old set of Peav's on the floor right now because we have just moved our sound sytem to the floor and our Bose 802 wires were not able to reach.. We were stuck up in a hole.. We have the \"20 year old\" Bose 802's hanging still, though not in use. The only thing I dont like about the Bose is that it needs a controller to work properly. Ive read about the powered speakers but I just dont know. Thats why I asked you guys. Speaking will be done the majority of the time.But, Our church is very blessed with singers so we do have alot of special songs and things like that. I guess you could say we are just a traditional southern baptist church. lol.. Hey Dra, What do you think about holding a sound seminar for us..Let me know.

underwood7582

Sorry about not answering your questions Dra. Yes they will be hanging and yes they will be angled. RE rigging is not possible because of our projector. Where we would need to put it,it would be right in the way.

Fanman20

Hi

You posted

The only thing I dont like about the Bose is that it needs a controller to work properly

I found that the Bose 802 work well with the DRPA without a controller!

Mark

Dra

I won't rule out a consult, but let's try to solve it on the forum for free, before you go into the \"paid\" market.

What is your current equipment list?

DRA

Fanman20

I could come from Sydney Austraila

but the airfare might blow your budget
Mark

PS Dra PM for you

Dra

Projector issue. Could the speakers be raised, the projector dropped, or both?

DRA

underwood7582

Projector dropped maybe...
Speakers are at the roof


My list is this.
Very OlD..lol

MAckie board
DRPA
Bose Controller
2x CE1000 Crown amps
2 hanging 802's
2 TOA monitors
Im not listing the Peaveys because there not ours. A guy in our church is letting us borrow them.
I know. I know. Sonic Maximer

underwood7582

IM LATE FOR WORK.. Ill be back onlater. THanks guys

Dra

In your budget range, you could get Yorkville E12's ($950-ish for the pair, if you know where to get them). I have had 2 for about 2 years and love them so much I bought another pair a few months back. I could give you the PEQ tunings that I use to get them nice and flat (natural state).
Another thought. Years ago I built a pair 2 x 15 + horn cabs, copied from Peavey SP2 (doubled) specs. They actually sounded really nice. But became a burden to haul around, so I gutted them and they are in storage. One would make a nice 2 x 15 sub on a budget (pop in a couple of used Black Widows from Ebay). A little fresh paint and make a cloth front to hide the hole where the horn was (separate sealed compartment) and cover the 15's. I'd be happy with recouping the cost of the wood (3/4\" ply), but you'd have to pick up. Any way, a thought if money is tight.

DRA

Gadget

Problem with the Bose is (everything.. sorry) that they have no partern control. Dra, I can't believe you didn't try and talk him in spending a couple hundred more and getting the U15's...and yes getting the sound ON the people and OFF the walls, floors and ceiling will help a MAJOR amount.. as Dra said center cluster, angled down, cover the seats and if no bands are playing why would you need a sub?

gadget

Dra

OK. Buy the U15's.

By the way, how are you dividing and using the amps. Any upgrade you make is going to leave you grossly under powered. I would like to see you put a bridged CE1000 on each cab (not sure how stable that amp is bridged to 4 ohms) and get another small (maybe another CE1000 off Ebay) for the monitors (since I don't believe you need much more than that for the purpose).
The specs on the CE1000 are 900w bridged (8) and 1100w bridged (4) both measure at 1Khz tone. That is a weird (small) increase from 8 to 4 ohms.

DRA

underwood7582

Hey guys

Well whoever set the sound system up had the mains on one amp and the monitors on another. I know we have to change that up when we upgrade but right now it works fine. Im underpowered and I know that. So I guess Ill be looking on Ebay.lol.
Your right gadget. I dont \"Need\" a sub. But would like to have one. I want to clean the sound up and have a nice low end punch when neccesary. I figured I would have to get another amp for the upgrade. Was kinda hoping to get by without it,but if I need it, I need it. You know? Plus the monitors will not need much to push them.
Maybe I can lower the projector and get a center cluster. Havnt thought about that.I would have to build a support for them but that shouldnt be to big a problem. Would there be a big difference in the sound between the center cluster and having them about 25 feet apart like they are now?
Thanks guys. Well I have the EV SX300 and the Yorkville E12 and U15.I think the 15's are gonna be out of my price range.Anyways .. any more suggs would be great.Thanks again and Ill be back on tonight after work.

Dra

The key advantage to the center cluster is that when the sound leaves one speaker it goes directly to a given audience member and the sound that comes from the other speaker has to reflect to hit that same person. By the time the reflection occurs and arrives at that person is has greatly reduced in energy and there is enough of a delay that it is not very noticable. This will be true with every seat in the congregation (assuming some thing). With a split set up, only those seated in the center (equal distances from each speakers) will have sound from each speaker arriving at the same time. Add to that the reflections and problems can arrive.

Depending on the room, side hanging (wedge style) may be an option to gain some projector clearence. You would probably want to put the horns both in. Be aware that in doing the side hang that all cab do not supply fly points in that orientation. Also the E12 is a combi speaker (FOH / wedge) and would appear odd to look at if oriented horn to horn. One more thing. Don't assume that all speakers are fly ready, but with a little ingenuity most can be flown. Be careful.

DRA

Gadget

Unless that projector is fairly old they have a a feature that lest them run from very odd locations...you could for instance very easily place the projector to the Right or left of the speakers...or above and project centered wherever you want. you could be quite a few feet off center and still project perfectly to center, so check and see, I bet it's pretty flexible as to where you
put it. As Dra said... and sorry Dra I didn't see your post... other possibilities...

http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/spea ... frame.html
Sonus Model 3294...

http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/spea ... frame.html

Both well within your budget... The community's are a 3 way so I would expect a better midrange (smoother)

and the :
http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/spea ... frame.html
Versus 1264

Gadget

underwood7582

Thanks guys.
Keep putting ideas into my head. I like the Idea of the off center projector.
Ok. So.. Let me see if I got this correct.
Get 2 speakers that are fly able. Probably the Yorkville E12. I like the fact that its a wooden box which in general sounds better to me. Anyways, Going to cluster them in the center.Angle them at 30 degrees towards audience. Get another amp and get it all hooked up and hopefully all is will sound great. lol.
I like my thoughts. Well, You guys thoughts. Any more info I may need feel free to input.

Dra

That angle is of course subject to height and position. Hit the front row and not the ceiling. The E12's are 80 (horizontal) x 50 (vertical), so do a little geometry and see what you need. (or any cab that you get for that matter)

DRA

Dra

How soon are you needing to make the move? If you are months away I could let you listen to the E12's if you like.

DRA

underwood7582

Dra

That would ideal. I was just thinking about going to Chattanooga and listening to some speakers. But If your willing to let me drop by and here them for myself that would be great. Im not gonna buy them this week if that is what you mean. Im shooting to have everything done by mid April. Gotta kid on the way and he's due at the end so thats off limits. lol. But i will remember the angle comparison. \" Hit the front row and not the ceiling\". What info do I need on getting in touch with you and listening to them.. Thanks.
Chris

Fanman20

No highs
No lows
It must be Bose

Problem with the Bose is (everything.. sorry) that they have no partern control.

But I do like them, In the right venue and with the right music and with subs and driven hard (efficiency ? 86db) and good for light music genre.

Hi underwood7582
2 questions for you re subs (I'm going though the same questions with my church at the moment)

1
Why add subs. Is it to make the sound guy and muso happy? Do the congregation notice the difference? (older people don't notice) Is the expence worth the improvement when most don't notice the change?

2
What is you \"target audience\"? genre? If you get younger people in than you need subs (they expect it) Older people don't need subs. (they hate it)
What is your long term goals re \"target audience\"?



Mark

underwood7582

hey fanman

The reason for the subs is that I love that punchier bottom end. Our church's backbone is our older folks. BUT we have a solid youth group that is very attentive and loves the comtemporary music. (Along with some head-bangin stuff I have no clue what there saying.) We have about 30 to 50 youth that sit on the first 6 rows dead center, if that tells you anything. They love God and they love music. Of course the older folks probably wont enjoy it that much just to be honest. But our elders understand change. They know it's comin.lol
But then again. Whatever you guys would consider. I want one, Dont have to have one, But i think that our young to mid generation would enjoy it also. And some older folks tell me that whatever I want to do,,do it. They trust me.

underwood7582

Something else guys. Notice I do have 2 Bose 802's. IF Im not mistaking they are cones, right?. Where as my TOA monitors have horns. If I use the Yorkville E12 as my FOH speakers and use the 802's as monitors. Would that help my feedback issue I have with the pulpit mic.
Cant wait to get it all hooked up and running. Whats your input.?

Fanman20

Bose 802's
Yes they are cone loaded speakers (8 x 4 inch)
They will be good for fold back (Use them my self for foldback. use the lids to angle them up)

A thought
When re-wiring your system, put the infrastructure in to take a sub. In time, when you by a sub it is easy to put it in the system because all the wiring is already there.
On special nights you can hire a sub and the infrastructure is already there. (easy setup)

Mark

PS

Gotta kid on the way

Congratulations

Dra

Chris, Now is the hard part. I don't have a gig for another 3 weeks (mobile, I don't think that would work for you), so we are stuck with an outdoor set-up. Weather is now our enemy. Let me know what your typical daily schedule is.

DRA

underwood7582

My daily schedule is go to work at 730 and get off at 4. Mon and Thurs would be better on the weekday and of course Sat is always fine. By the way. Stupid me looked at my amps today. Not CE1000, but we got 2x CE 2000.