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When you're bored, show off your stuff!

One of the main house systems at one of three clubs I'm maintaining...

dirty_prettyschematic-1.jpg

There's Ev ZX fills too, I'll add those later. What's everyone else got?
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Comments

  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Next 14 pages dedicated to Gadget's stuff. :lol:

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    And it's all in a trailers... :cry:

    Buzz...that's a nice rig..what did you use to make the page?

    G
  • Macromedia Fireworks MX, sheer boredome, and Corona. =)
  • Dra wrote:
    Next 14 pages dedicated to Gadget's stuff. :lol:

    DRA

    *rotf* I can well imagine that! :D
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ya but what do I do for my karaoke, DJ and home theater systems...DBX sent me a message telling me I was already taking up too much bandwidth... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::wink:
  • Have you listened to the 212's before Gadget?
  • Gadget wrote:
    Ya but what do I do for my karaoke, DJ and home theater systems...DBX sent me a message telling me I was already taking up too much bandwidth... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::wink:

    I would suggest highly compressed JPG's. That image is only like...50something Kb
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Nope haven't heard any of the new crop of powered speakers.. I do follow the trends and hear pretty good things about them...Doubt they could hold up against my tops.. but then I always was prejudiced... :lol::lol::lol: Tell you what.. My 4 tops and subs against yours...head to head... :shock: Don't be offended but.. did you see me go by...................................................................... :twisted:
    G
  • *haha*

    They're passive...however unfortunately underpowered! The QsC 2502 at best is transferring the noise at just under 800w in the present structure. Honestly, they're tough, but are not very warm. The 218 is another beast of burden...with the 3602 bridged i cannot focus my eyes nor keep a steady heartbeat. I don't know why they have the Turbosounds. They're jenky! I borrowed two JBL VRX918S's ran off a Crown XS1200...I couldn't breathe.

    Another venue has 4 of the Turbosound TXD118's ran off a Crown XS1200...hmmmmmmmm
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ya... you got me there.. I wasn't paying attention was I... but still. I'll pit my Unpowered stuff against yours... I guarantee the LABsubs will open your eyes... you think you can't see now...wait till the floor starts moving... the customers start worrying and the neighbors a couple blocks away start calling the local geological survey complaining about earthquake activity... :lol::lol::lol::lol: Maybe you won't ACTUALLY loose control of your bowel movement... but I guarantee you'll \"poop your pants\" when you hear the way low end is supposed to sound... It's a real eye opener...
    :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
    G :shock:
  • I'm down for the challenge. Just for fun, the largest subs I ever encountered and tuned was back in the early 90's at Six Flags NJ. I'm 5' 9\" and they were taller and deeper than I was.

    These days, I'm all about the cardiac arrhythmias.
  • I saw your usual test tracks after you lay down your structure. I don't use the same music the clubs do only because they cannot develop the low to mid to high transients that the music I utilize can.

    Fugue and Toccata in D minor, Lux Eterna, and select Pirates of the Caribbean tracks are amongst the heaviest of hitters. In the chord of E to what order?!

    I'm just not liking these EV tops...the JBL SRX722s were so smooth. I'm at -12db on all just short of mids to take the shreek out and still too high.

    ~BZL~

    \"boom, here comes the boom, ready or not, how you like me now?\"
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    My main rig has 6 LAB subs that run from 20 hz to 55 hz, 8-18\" turbo manifolds from 55 hz to 150hz, 6 proprietary 12\" X 1.4\" 60X40 (three per side) with 16, 450 watts of crown and Qsc power I can hit 23 hz running dead flat @ under 1.5 db down...@ 1/2 mile you can FEEL the low end thump your chest... The monitor rig has 7550 watts with 5 biamp 15\" wedges and a double 15\" drum monitor that will knock you off the drum throne...The clarity and power are awesome to behold..

    That's interesting...everyone over at the PSW usually says that JBL is the harshest horn speaker...I do know that Mike Kovach measured some SRX722's and they couldn't even produce 12K at 3db down...nothing from there up and when pressed for a comment chose to ignore the clients protests...the JBL's went bye bye...and Danley Sound got the nod...One of the 722 even had the wrong driver in it, and when they got the right one.. it could do no better... and JBL specs those to 20Khz...Now that's down right crooked, lying advertising...

    G
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Gadget wrote:

    ...Now that's down right crooked, lying advertising...

    G

    Is it lying if you believe it to be true? And, if you believe it to be true, when it's not, does that make you incompetent?

    Some people say I'm apathetic and ignorant. I don't know what they mean by that, but quite frankly, I don't care.

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    One of the big grips in the pro audio industry is their is no truth in advertising laws...any MFG can claim anything they want, they can even make (whatever) measurements seem to verify their claims...one of the oldest tricks in the book is to claim a speaker can produce 135 db... well maybe @ 3000 hz for a burst 1.5 seconds, but average output across the full spectrum is likely in the 125-127 db... One manufacturer actually claimed 153 db...(Worx audio) for their MONITORS...we all had a good chuckle over that one... :roll:
  • Man! Why would you even want that??
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Because specs that show... YOUR brands DOMINANCE over the competition... sells product.. even if it's a total fabrication... It's like saying \"Our car gets 100 MPG\" and basing that specification on the trip from Flagstaff to Pheonix... a trip down a mountain that I personally got well in excess of 100 miles to the gallon on because it was ALL downhill...

    There is NO truth in advertising on today's pro audio speakers... they can be made to spec any way you want, and there is no repercussions... even within the community...

    To my way of seeing things, JBL, Bose, and EV are the WORST perpetrators of this ... \" We can make even a widget a prize\" and we continue to buy the crap just because it has the name...

    :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

    I have said all I will on this subject because it is so pervasive as to be insidious.. and the fact that the companies are \"beyond reproach\" flies in the face of the facts... but still nothing is EVER done...
    :cry:
    G
  • True that my good sir. I do have a question for you...something that I should always know - however, I forget.

    In the order of \"daisy chaining\" or \"piggy backing\" multiple enclosures, what is the applied formula in determining line load?

    Connections via Neutrik throughput to enclosure #1 to #2 to #3 as an example...
  • And why is it when an enclosure specs at 8 my meter won't peg past 6.7? That's not just one brand, thats quite a few!
  • ohms thats is....sorry.
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Your meter measures the coil resistance. The impedance of the cabinet is frequency dependant while power is applied and is the lowest impedence found in the speakers bandwidth. (Or something like that) Typically if you meter check a speaker an 8 ohm speaker it will read higher than 4 and less than 8. I do not know if a 4 ohm read under 4 and 1 16 ohm read between 8 & 16. Maybe Gadget knows.

    Average the impedence of all speaker and devide by the # of speakers.
    (3) 8 ohm speakers in parallel.
    Average: 8+8+8 = 24/3 = 8
    Divide by 3: 8/3 = 2.67
    -or-
    (8+8+8)/3/3 = 2.67
    -or-
    Total ohms (sum) divided by the square of the # of cabinets.

    (4) 8 ohm speakers in parallel.
    8+8+8+8 = 32
    32/4/4 = 2 or 32/16 = 2

    DRA
  • Ah ok so it is the paralell formula. Thank you for the refresher...I thought I was on the right track. Thanks Dra Yes, a four ohm as I've found does read less than 4. Maybe not all of them but the ones I've checked have. Then wattage remains constant throughout or the sum of each one?

    :)
  • DraDra Posts: 3,777
    Those formulas don't work with odd ohms though (8 + 8 + 4 = 2.2), (16 + 8 + 4 = 3.1)???????

    Not sure how to figure those.

    DRA
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Ya...what DRA said...and it's a plot of the speakers impedance, the 8 ohm speaker should never fall below 8 ohms, but may be as much as 40 ohms @ some frequencies. The 8 ohm speaker is a sort of average, but should never fall to the DC resistance of the driver...

    When a speaker is mounted into a box, and hooked up to an amp, dynamic forces inside the box cause the amp to see a lot more than resistance.. It's called impedance:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance

    Gadget
  • The formula for different parallel impedance is

    1/(1/a+1/b+1/c......+1/x)

    So if we have 2 x 8ohm load and a 4ohm load, the parallel impedance is

    1/(1/8+1/8+1/4)=2ohms

    Hope this make sense

    Robbo
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    Hey Robbo, Interestingly enough, my son is out in California having dinner with a countryman of yours, discussing 5-7 axis router software that they are both looking to represent in their local areas...We were just discussing his trip and he was telling me about this ... and he even pronounced it correctly... the Australian gentleman he was having dinner with...

    I guess it is indeed a small world after all

    Thanks for the input...have a great day!
    G
    BTW did you see it was nearly 50 degrees BELOW ZERO here last night..... think I'll cut a hole in the ice big enough for my boat so I can go Ice fishing LOL ... OOPS that's probably around 3 FEET of ice at this point... :shock: Oh well.. maybe I'll just lay under a sun lamp and dream of a vacation to the outback... be well my friend...

    Gadget
  • That's pretty cold there. It's been 42C (107F) here and the pit I work at has recorded 55C (131F). That's 180F difference!
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    UNCLE... I must say you have MY sympathy...you can always ADD more cloths if your cold.. but when your naked, and still hotter than a water droplet dancing on a hot stove top.. your in real misery, but as in all things I think you can get used to that too right Mate?

    Stay cool...

    G :oops:
  • Hey gang,

    Well it appears that I have the system at one of the problematic clubs dialed in. Laying the foundation with the basic gain structure with the DRPA and its' EQ and crossover capabilities really seemed to help add color and depth to the mains.

    The one thing that I noticed when setting the gain structure with the pink noise track was that the track was not normalized to the same level as the other tracks on the CD. I reformatted the signal utilizing the signal properties tool in my burner program so I was able to achieve a signal level capable of raising the meters utilizing input trim to the point of clipping on the board.

    Also, the lower end of the sound spectrum on the track was not equal to the midrange and higher frequencies it produced. What would be the reason for that to occur?

    The other observation that I made after enabling all the other processor attributes in the DRPA was that after I had set the gain structure, I would enable the GEQ (which had been adjusted to lower shelf settings) was that the signal made visible by the amplifier meters dropped dramatically. Enough to the point where the signal level was not the same before enabling everything on the DRPA. This had dropped the sound level from the mains to a level that was not acceptable. I then made some minor gain adjustments on the amplifier along with gain levels in the DRPA crossover and with the mixer at a nominal level, the SPL from the mains was exceptionally loud and clear.

    Soundchecking with one of the DJs that plays at the venue, we had determined at that point that the SPL was acceptable. Observing the input signal meters from the board on the DRPA and the output signal to the amp rack with music playing was:

    Input meter was averaging +10dbu and peaking in the +15dbu, rarely clipping unless a track had been played that required adjustment via the MAC therefore reducing it back to the previously mentioned levels.

    Output meters on the HIGH/MID were almost perfectly balanced living in the area of +5 ~ +10 dbu. The sub was averaging +5 dbu peaking around +10.

    At what had been determined a quality level of sound (aka really !%&$ing loud) the amp meters were dancing in the -10dbu and gains on the QSC2502s were at this level throughout (however slightly higher on the sub QSC3602 due to the lower output signal level):

    qsc.jpg

    The big catch here is that the previous system tech (according to word around the campfire) was that they had done \"something\" to the system that was causing repeated failure of the EV tops and bottoms. I had noted that when I perused the program file being utilized prior to any adjustments, that neither EQ section was utilized nor was the soft limiter enabled. As well, all the gains had been at full clockwise.

    I am hoping to make my new name better and heard by other venues by not blowing anything up or causing premature failure of the system by utilizing what talents I have and dialing in the systems to the point all they need is a good bath when they get dusty/dirty. This is somewhat old hat but in the years between, it's also new hat.

    Thoughts? Questions? Comments?

    ~buzz~
  • GadgetGadget Posts: 4,915
    WHOA Hoss.. you failed miserably in the \"what \", \"pink noise are you talking about\" Are you talking about the one that comes FROM th3e DRPA... or from the downloadable CD in the FAQ section...or something else...what are your \"setup\" configurations when doing this? Note: ALL PINK NOISE IS NOT EQUAL...Some have a quantifiable \"crest\" factor.. If your using the \"Binkster CD.. as in the one we offer as a downloadable file these are the characteristics...

    Track 58: Pink noise 20 minutes. Double Mono - same signal on both Left and Right. This track allows you to set system EQ controls while using a high-quality omnidirectional test microphone and a software audio analyzer tool like SmaartLive, SIMM or SpectraFoo. Some experienced techs can EQ by ear with pink noise. You can also use pink with audio analysis programs to set delay times. And pink noise is helpful in setting bandpass levels on crossovers. This track has these power characteristics: Average RMS Power= -12.2dB. Max RMS Power= -8.77. Min RMS Power= -14.9dB. Peak Amplitude= -1.65dB

    Good to hear your well on your way to solving the worlds problems one club at a time. Do you use the tools available in the FAQ? I hope you are not basing your system tuning on the DRPA Auto EQ.. because you know, an RTA based analyzer falls short in any number of departments...

    G
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