Drive Rack PA or 260

NoizyNeighborz

:roll: I have 2 questions that I found topics on, but do to my lack of PA understanding I'm more cofused.

8) We are a dance band that plays Rock in small clubs and sometimes a venue the size of a school gym.

My PA is running in MONO with the following setup:
Don't laugh... you have to start somewhere
PV900 - chA > Peavey TLS-5 top > Peavey TLS-5 top
PV900 - chB > Monitor > Monitor
PV2600 - chA > JBL JRX100 sub (mono feed to this ch. from mixer)
PV2600 - chB > JBL JRX100 sub
I'm using the built in crossover in the 2600 channel A to split the Hi/Low's to the power amps.
:?:
1. Can I use the DRPA or DR260 to run this system in mono?
2. Can I use these speakers? The PV's are not in the list.
3. Would I even benifit from a DR in this system?
4. Recommened upgrades...
Thanks
Wally

Gadget

Sorry...couldn't resist :oops:

Yes you just wouldn't believe how much better your system could sound.

Doesn't matter that what you have isn't in the menu...it's an easy setup...

If you got the 260 you would have much better control over mains and monitors, but it can be done with the DRPA.

Better speakers would be the next step ...If your looking for recommendation I am opinionated ...but I would need to know what kind of budget you have.

G

NoizyNeighborz

Thanks for the quick response.
I was mosly concerned with the DR because I could not find a mono setup in any of the diagrams, and the users seem to suggest that the DRPA expects a completely stereo signal In/Out.
I'm at the point in my life where I can buy what I want, not necessarily what I need. So cost isn't my concern, sounding good in the venus we play in with minimal gear and easy setup.
You suggest better speakers. Does that mean bigger in size as well or just better specs?
What about the power amps? And is running in stereo any more benifit for what we do?
Wally

Dennis

If money is no object, then lets go with Meyer UPA-1P for mid/highs and Meyer 500-HP for subs. They are self powered speakers.

Dennis

Gadget

Nice...Dennis is setting you up MONDO there... but you better have DEEP pockets for that setup...but ya.. awesome...in a whole different league actually then what you have...But heavy.. and I'd guess $15,000 -$20,000 for two tops and 2 subs...

I believe in the little but deadly as well, and no bigger isn't always better... If reasonable money is available then I would look at Danley sound especially for the subs.. but this combo:
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/synergy_ ... el=SH%2095
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/tapped_h ... =TH%20MINI
would weigh in at under 250 lbs and BLOW YOU AWAY.. at less than 1/2 the cost of the UPA1 HP500 package...

There is something to be said for powered speakers...but the good ones are well over $1000 each...

For a modest system cost perhaps the powered Yorkville U15 do U15P.. over the TH mini subs...or maybe even the Yorkie subs..but the Danley's REALLY shine...

No real benefit in stereo except for effects are better in stereo...

I have some good DUI designs here in the FAQ sections as well...
G

Dennis

The speakers I spec'd are fairly small and probably not that much larger than what you have (larger sub and same size or smaller mid/high). They do weigh more but require no amp rack. Yes, they are expensive. There are other benefits to Meyer ownership that I am not going to go into here because it would sound more like an advertisement than a post.

Dennis

NoizyNeighborz

Well now I have to consider if a hernia is worth 15 grand
If we were giging more and had roadies I'd consider something like that. I'm currently just hoping to have the DR technology help me out with a little cleaner sound and easier setup, with our current rig, espically where I have to set it and forget it (no sound guy and mixer is on stage).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would the DR260 be a better choice for our current setup? From what I read the DRPA is stereo only and I could not find if you can use just one side (Left or Right) for the outputs. I also don't think I could run the monitors through either unit, I didn't plan to anyway.

Dennis

The 260 would be better for anything than the DRPA and it doesn't weigh much more so you are still OK without a roadie.

Dennis

Gadget

Either will do dual mono... the DRPA just has most modules tied together...channel wise... I think you would REALLY love the DR on the monitors get the 260 or 4800 run the monitors through it and be amazed how much better your monitors sound.. Just ask Dr. J He got a PX for that purpose and flattened the monitors and was BLOWN away by the difference... using Yamaha club series monitors I think...

G

Dr. J

Yep! The difference was unbelievable. Still can't get over it. The PX is a very simple and practical unit that you can use for monitors.

NoizyNeighborz

The PX is for powered speakers. We use a power amp for the monitors, although I don't see what the difference would be.

Anyway if I get the DR260, would I be able to have the following basic setup? (see my rig in earlier post). Big boys have RIGS mine is more of a Rig-ette

1. Run the main mono mix to input 1 on the DR260. Patch this through the crossover to Output1(Highs/Mids - Mono) and Output2(Subs - Mono).

2. Run the monitor mix (full range) through input 2 to output3.

3. Each of the above having independant EQ, and Feedback Control, etc.

Thanks Guys (and girls???)
Wally

Dr. J

They say the PX is for powered speakers but it doesn't matter. The PX can't tell if the poweramps are mounted in a rack or in a speaker. For the 260 and the PA (Vice Versa). I would go with the 260 and let it do everything. Use everything it has to offer...... I mean that is what it is supposed to do. Don't bother with other crossovers, EQ's.....etc. The 260 has far better capabilities than the DRPA or the PX & I have both. Keep it simple if possible. My system goes as follows: PreSonus StudioLive to DriveRack PA (260 soon) to PowerAmps to Speakers. Done! Monitors: Out of the Aux'x on the PreSonus to DRPX to poweramp to monitor wedges. Done! Real Basic & easier than heck to lug around. Sounds way better than when I first became a member on here. Right G? Well, G hasn't really heard my system BUT he knows it is better than when I first started here. Knowledge is power.....

NoizyNeighborz

Dr. J
I'm sold on the 260 and after playing with the GUI I think I answered my own questions. I assume you don't use the 260 for your monitors because you are runnig it in stereo and you have more than 1 monitor send. The 260 alone should handle my Mono setup. I'm placing my order tomorrow

I do have a question about the GUI. Can you do everything with it offline? I can't seem to specify which power amp will be assigned to each output or set the custom speaker/amp parameters. Plus the Wizard wants to
re-configure my mono system back to stereo.

Thanks again

Dr. J

Yeah you better let Gadget, Dra or Dennis fill you in there. They have done this hundreds of times. They always talk about the \"Config\" section. May want to dig in there a bit. You should be able to set-up your parameters offline with the GUI then save them & recall them later after you are all hooked up. Awesome choice with the 260!

Gadget

Very good choice...and yes, as Doc says the 'config' mode will allow you to change any parameter, link or unlink modules, re-allocate delay, change module sources...etc...the ONLY thing you cannot do is enter the RTA mode... that is front panel only.

If you'd like I could (with your email address) send you a .dwp you could plug into your GUI or Driverack that would be set up like you want...

I use the 4800 for mine because I have 4 Bi-amp monitor zones... the front center has 2 monitors... usually...
gadget

Dra

Gadget wrote:

the ONLY thing you cannot do is enter the RTA mode... that is front panel only.
gadget

By RTA, Gadget means Auto EQ. The RTA itself IS available in the GUI, so you can do "manual EQ" with the built-in pink noise generator in the mixer section.

+1 on the 260.

DRA

PS - Do the 260 tutorial in the training module area.

NoizyNeighborz

Gadget, thanks for offering to help me out.
My email address is west1@ns.sympatico.ca
I'm still trying to muddle through this myself. :? For someone who writes computer software, you would think I could handle DriveWare. I still can't see how you would go about assigning the Amp/Speaker combination to the individual outputs manually. The Wizard will , but it wants everything set up in stereo with no setup for the monitor section. What secret click am I missing :?: Maybe I'm not using the proper software :roll: This is all still offline using DriveWare (just downloaded, so I assume its the latest version).

Dra

I'll repeat.

Do the tutorial for the 260 in the Training module tab above.

DRA

NoizyNeighborz

Dra I did the tutorial for the 260 in the Training module. Of course a couple of clicks in he went online, but I could follow along off line. And the tutorial used the wizard, which will not show a mono setup.

I think my understanding of how the DR260 handles the output routing to the amps/speakers is screwed up. Correct this assumption. :roll:

1. The DR will automatically assign the High/Low Amps based on the crossover setup. Highs to Out1 and Lows to Out2. Using a 1x2 crossover assigned to input A.

2. If I use Input B to Out3, for my monitors, the DR does not care what type of Amp/Speaker is connected.

3. Is there no screen to show you which amps are assigned to which channel?

4. Is there no way to set the Amp/Speaker parameters without using the wizard?

Thanks (and I have been reading other posts and tutorials in between posting here... I'm just a slow learner )
Wally

Dennis

Study the config button functions.

Dennis

Dra

By and large the wizard is a sales gimmick (it got you to buy one and a lot of others, too). IF your speakers are in the wizard and IF you are bi-amping, there is a definate benefit. But except for a very select few (JBL M-Pro series) there is no real benefit for passive speakers.

The amp and speaker parameters are set by doing a gain structure set-up and flattening session as described in detail in the Read Me First section.

You can name the channels whatever you want (if there are enough character spaces).

To get some ideas, open some of the canned programmed and see how they are configured.

DRA

NoizyNeighborz

Study the config button functions.

I was hoping for answers, not more questions

Here are some more:

1. On the right side of the DR260 screen is the following info when in Configuration mode:

Configuration - This I figure is the mode we are working in.
B - This is the Input assigned to the output
Channel 256 - Could someone explain this one?
2730ms Delay Left - Could someone explain this one?

Dra

NoizyNeighborz wrote:

Study the config button functions.

I was hoping for answers, not more questions

Here are some more:

1. On the right side of the DR260 screen is the following info when in Configuration mode:

Configuration - This I figure is the mode we are working in.
B - This is the Input assigned to the output
Channel 256 - Could someone explain this one?
2730ms Delay Left - Could someone explain this one?

You mean on the left?
Yes.
Where are you seeing this? I only see it just before the x-over stage where it come out of the pre-x-over modules.
Where do you see this? I see it nowhere.
The entire DR260 has 2.7 secs of delay available. As you assign delay values in the different delay modules, the pool decreases and the remaining amount is shown here.

DRA

Dennis

So here's another question...do you not have a laptop? Life would be much easier for you if you were using Driveware.

Dennis

NoizyNeighborz

Configuration - This I figure is the mode we are working in.
B - This is the Input assigned to the output
Channel 256 - Could someone explain this one?
2730ms Delay Left - Could someone explain this one?

:oops: Sorry, I meant the Left side of the DriveWare Display.
I just ordered the 260 so I'm only using the software.

When I click on the input channel assignments (A,B,A+B) the Channel number(Left of Display) will display 1,2 or 256. I'm wondering what the number means. It seems to not be tied to the input letters A or B, because I have B assignments that show up as 1 and some as 2.

As far as the Delay goes, I misunderstood the word Left to mean the Left Input or Output. Your suggesting its the total delay time that remains to be used(if you need it).


I wish I could post a screen shot. Is that possible?

Thanks again
Wally

Dra

Check your PM (Private messages)

Right click the blue banner of the 260 screen and select \"Export program\" then send me that file.

DRA

Gadget

Check your email... 8)

NoizyNeighborz

Thank you Gadget for doing the work for me. I guess its faster than trying to teach me. I was surprised to see no crossovers in your setup, I guess the filters accomplish the same thing.

Do I still need to tune or tweak any parameters once the unit is hooked up and program is loaded? I'm not sure of the extent of the setup you did.

I'd still like some of my previous questions answered. It would help me understand the unit better. Rather than treat it like a black box.

Thanks again
Later
Wally

Gadget

You would need a \"screen saver\" and an account with something like \"Photobucket\" to post your pics... in order to post a screenshot...

I sent you a second setup WITH a crossover!

Perhaps it would be easier for us to go through all this on the phone? there is just so much it's tough to do one line at a time...

Let me know...or you'll have to put all your questions int a
1.....
2....
3....
format... with all the info
gadget

NoizyNeighborz

Gadget thanks again for the for the files you sent me. I'll study these in detail and wait until my unit arrives before bugging you guys anymore. Hopefully I will not have to...

The one question I would like answered is:
I can see that its possible to set up the gain structure for the highs and lows. (I assume I'll still have to, even with the files you sent me). Do I have to do the same for the monitors?

Thanks
Wally

Gadget

yes... it would be a good idea...I am having computer problems.. I may have more when I'm back so keep asking what you want to know...
G