Cascading UI24R with eg. UI16 possible?
Jimmy75
Posts: 10
Hello, bought recently a new UI14R for my home-recording... i dont find in the manual info on cascading which i´m looking to expand with e.g. UI16.
- does that work?
- how does the app look like: is it showing all additional channels of both modules added being accessible in Mixer / Aux ?
- can i access them e.g. via Cubase 13 ?(audioconnections with one driver accessing both Soundcrafts? until e.g. channel "48" then?)
- i searched in the forum for "cascade" -> find 6 topics but all only with the initial Question only without any valuable answer / support /hints.
- is there anybody out there who might know?
Many thanks!
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Hello, for the 2nd Q is this then Input DAW 11-32 for master UI24r and DAW channel 33 to 55 for the slave UI24r? how does that work? thx
It's not possible.
Ui24R is only able to cascade Ui24R.
You only use Ui16 as a sub-mixer in analog cable connection.
And here, against the 2nd question.
When you cascade 2 of Ui24R mixers, that USB DAW connection is still individually.
You can use 2 PCs if you'd like to record 64 tracks if you wanted it.
If you'd like to connect 2 of Ui24R to one PC, Mac is easy. You can make an audio set like as a virtual audio interface with using several actual interfaces at the AUDIO MIDI SETUP of the MAC OS utility. DAW will only select one interface so you can select that virtual interface. This is the well-known usage in mac users.
Windows is not so simple. It needs "ASIO4ALL" or any other third party drivers or DAW softwares.
Actually that PC should handle several USB audio interfaces.
For the playback usage, and even if you only use a PC with either of one Ui24R, you can do it similarly although a DAW connection only has 32 tracks in maximum.
I don't mind why you still started the track number from 11, you had 45 tracks DAW playback but the DAW connection only has 32 tracks in maximum. Those 32 tracks DAW playback (as your track number #11 to #42) can be patched total 52 channels (potential) of 2 mixers as below. This is a good example how the cascade works.
You make the 45 tracks to the 32 multi out in each at your audio output setting section of your DAW software with using the group bus or auxiliary of the mixer section in your DAW.
The first 26 tracks can patch to the CH1-26 ( I means 25 26 as Line-IN L R) of the unit which has the USB connection. The second 6 tracks can patch to the cascade-out slots of the same unit.
And another unit can patch those 6 of cascade-in slots to the CH source of the mixer as below.
How you use them depends on your favorite. Anyway the cascade function gives you a 32 channel oneway x 2 (round trip) total 64 lines digital audio route between the 2 of Ui24R. 32 slots cascade outs is 32 slots cascade ins for the buddy. Mixer channels or bus numbers not increase in each mixer.
Thanks for this specific worthful input Taichee - understood .
Hello, Taichee, coming back first to explain my use-case(s) prior i try to understand & reply to your helpful message! thx.
Use-case (general): (no mixing live-stage/band or external usage!)
gear is consisting of several keyboards LINE / MICS XLR for amps & 2 individual vocals mics + several keyboards expansion modules (again LINE) = ~14 Mics ~ 30 Lines -> use my equipment @home music-room (rec/mixing & playing the instruments)
I want to have all my gear „fixed“ connected to an individual channel basically to PREVENT physical cable & channel swapping / EQ modification / … preventing spending "1h prior i can start"...
Use-Case b:
use my instruments single / or some a few the same time (is see max ~12 channels same time)
best case like SoundCraft enabling EQing/routing to outs for 3x Speaker L/R Setups in the room) -> "switch on and PLAY" -> do not make use of any external PC or else… (for the instruments with amps ist more easy as running expanders which have only stereo outs & midi connection...)
Use-Case c:
Record max same ~12 channels same time most likely in my Cubase (Soundcraft SW / Mixing is new to me –> having no experience if i could substitude finally Cubase recording which i´m familiar with since 20y)
Record individual channels out of the ~44 in total (selective) in cubase (by making use of the fixed connected cables/instruments -> thats why i´m looking how to expand my current one UI24R)
KR jimmy
What i understood from your previous helpful information Taichee:
=> that means i could work under this circumstance by linking the DAWs´48 channels IN of the 2 SC UI24r´s selective
on recording, when making use of the ~12 channels/instruments same time, must! be connected all to ONE/SAME UI24R (correct?)
But I could record individual (all channels max from each unit) in the DAW too -> whats there can be processed there and be routed to one of the UI24r outs? (correct?)
MIX and play back the DAW uses only the OUTs of again ONE/Same UI24R which is connected to my 3 speakers that i can hear playback on one or 3 attached L/R speaker systems (selective or same time) (correct?)
Means i dont need (and dont want) to connect „back“ all DAW channels into the individual UI24r´s -> i see it like that that MY recording will take place in the DAW/PC (Windows) System, only.
I need the UI24r(s) only for:
Is my understanding right so far and Is it possible to realize this with a 2nd UI24r?
Appreciate confirmation, corrections or guides/hints to make my target picture possible.
Thank you!
Windows driver for soundcraft is not the bottleneck.
Windows is the bottleneck.
I am not sure what interface you used before you started firs ui24r, but I guess you have something. I suggest you to test the case of several interfaces usage. Actually I use Mac so I can’t give you more detailed information but many ppl are using several interfaces on windows by using ASIO4ALL. Search in the internet. I am not sure how high spec PC is required. Mac is easy.
I don’t know what the 48ch is, probably 40 XLR + 4 RCA total 44ch can be the source for a Cubase with the several interfaces simultaneous usage. This multitrack recording doesn’t concern with the mixer section. It just goes to Cubase from each headamp of the XLR input port.
If you’d like to record sounds via mixer section, you have to use 8 aux and stereo mix. ( Please read the user manual - v3 added about this ).
When you only rec 12 channels, everything is so simple. You just use one Ui24R and a PC with 1:1 connection. It’s same up to 20 XLR inputs or plus 2 RCA as well.
When you mix the recorded tracks in Cubase mixer section, you can make a ST mix or ST plus center mono something or whatever you want. Because Cubase also has aux and bus functions and it can patch to the USB ( cubase —> ui24r direction ). You can patch those signal to the Ui’s analog output ports directly without using Ui’s mixer section.
Please don’t forget each latency.
All of USB audio drivers need some buffer. It makes latency. It’s adjustable but never be zero. High performance PC will allow the short latency (= low buffer) but it depends on the CH numbers and the audio data quantity ( Bitrate ) too.
Ui’s mixer section also has latency ( approx. 2.7ms ). AD and DA spend 0.6 or 0.7ms. Cascading transfer only spend 0.7ms one way. USB DAW driver will spend 5ms- 40ms for oneway, I guess. ( But it depends ). I don’ t recommend the USBDAW routing for the live playing an instrument. Mix down will be OK.
All of patching and mixing process are able to save to snapshot. You can recall the snapshots anytime by double click. Even in the cascading status, the master unit can save both units status as the snapshot.
thank you. Next i will try out connecting on ASIO4ALL as you mentioned . (i have the previous Steinberg UR44 Soundcard still on hand; USB). Will give then feedback how this all reacts - even its not a 2nd UI24r yet it could give me some indication...jimmy
I recommend you to try the usage of ui24R and UR44 with ASIO4ALL before purchasing 2nd Ui24R.
thats what i will do - probably tomorrow - - will feedback here - thx
Hello other Q during some activities taken place curently: (i did manage to link my SCraft into DAW Cubase (20/ multi channels - so far so good): as one SC can do "multitrtack by there own on e.g. USB Stick -> later import into DAW: how does that look like when a 2nd UI24R is cascaded? can i do then e.g. 40 multitrack on one USB? or do i run then 2 seperate USBs where files are 2x20 recorded which i put then manually into daw?
thx on that!!!
DAW recording takes post gain signal as pre patching.
On the other hand the USB pen drive recording will record the post patching.
So I recommend you to have any one of same sound at least for both of 22 as a kind of tips.
It helps you to place those 44 tracks on the DAW manually according to the same waveforms.
sorry i didnt exactly get what you mean i guess (i´m not a native speaker)
What do you mean by that?
So I recommend you to have any one of same sound at least for both of 22 as a kind of tips.
Do you mean by that
It helps you to place those 44 tracks on the DAW manually according to the same waveforms.
that i need to check the entire waveform start or better say same visible "peaks" to sync them?
beside that: What is cascading enabling finally? isnt there anywhere a description (official document) which exactly describes what cascading can do and what not?
thx Taichee
2 of recordings won't be synchronized.
Perhaps the stick 1 will record 22 tracks from AM10:00 and the stick 2 will record other 22 tracks from AM9:59.
When you copy the files to your DAW, you don't know how different the timing so it'll bother you.
So I have recommended you to have same tracks in both units. For example metronome or kick or SMPTE timecode. 22 tracks in each are always synchronized so you watch those 2 of same in both to place them in the time line on your DAW.
Cascading just gives you 2 x 32 pipe lines between the 2 units.
You can access to another one from the one by a click even without using 2 windows of the browser. 2 windows usage is also ok, if you liked it.
As a limitation, when you only use one mixer, you can't change the gains of the channels which patched via cascading slots. So you have to switch the screen to the remote one to re-adjust those gains.
( But I always stand-by that screen in background. Not too bothering. )
I don't know any other descriptions but he explains well in Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QEBPZBchW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0h1n8QXhXM
part 1
part 2
thank you Taichee.
I decided to return the UI24R - finally i´m potentially too stupid to manage this routing/patching stuff which is too complicated for me switching between DAW recording and usual mixing when i play in the room. finally too low amount of Inputs for my purpose - would prefer combi/inputs line/XlR as much as possible - not only the half... thanks for all support.
I respect your decision.
For the information to other people, the patching and routing can be restored by using snapshots.
Only the first time would be you have to well understand but you can forget them after saving the snapshot. And the master unit can save both units settings.
Also about the input ports, snapshots can switch which port is used for each cannel so you can keep the physical 44 input connections all seasons long..... but yes I agree with that 26ch mixer is not enough for many usage. Aux + Matrix are total only 10 that is not enough for many usage. When I think the price with features, it's still so nice, though.