AMX iPhone app
a_riot42
Posts: 1,624
Seen the new iPhone AMX control app? It allows you to load a TPD file onto an iPhone.
http://www.touchpanelcontrol.com/
Haven't seen a price for it yet though. Considering you don't need a touch panel, I don't know if it was created with the blessing of AMX or not. Since it requires a TPD file, a regular user wouldn't be able to load it themselves.
Paul
http://www.touchpanelcontrol.com/
Haven't seen a price for it yet though. Considering you don't need a touch panel, I don't know if it was created with the blessing of AMX or not. Since it requires a TPD file, a regular user wouldn't be able to load it themselves.
Paul
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I can't wait to try this out.
It seems to work in a similar fashion to the iridium mobile app, although with greater TP4 compatibility
Presumably there is a ini file for TP4 that allows them to add the file type and resolution - they'd be on very thin ice if they tried to market something that used a hacked TP4 download.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJpeGWzEL9w
Is there an app in the store for this? I didn't see one.
Actually the more I think about it the more it makes sense that this would work.
Yup, although I can?t find it in writing anywhere I have to assume that AMX touch screens are resistive since you can use a stylus. Resistive touch screen technology does not support multi-touch.
iPhone touch screens use capacitive technology which is why you can?t wear gloves or use a stylus with the iPhone.
Sounds like a fair trade off don?t ya think?
Exactly! I actually started looking into "how" they could have done it. And here's what I've come up with.
1) TPD files themselves appear to be a mashup of the XMA and XML files that dictate what and how each button is displayed on the popup or page. In order to break this out - some reverse engineering had to have been done, or used / hacked a DLL to extract all the files. Either way, I could see a EULA violation.
2) XML, XMA, bitmap and font files are sent to the panel during transfer, not a TDP file. One can easily capture these and "sync" them to an iPhone; the iPhone then surely has some code that parses these out and shows what it needs and does what it's supposed to - just how I'm sure an AMX panel uses them except with the Unix operating system.
3) Here's where I bet the majority of their time was spent in development: having the iPhone talk natively with an AMX processor (I'm assuming that is what's happening.) Depending on *how* they did it would determine if any real reverse engineering actually occurred. They either (A) sniffed the ICSP protocol out OR (B) they used the ICSP documentation that can easily be found online and built their code around that documentation of the protocol. I'm not sure of the capabilities of an iPhone - but you *could* potentially use a DLL that AMX sells.
4) Adding some entries into a few exisiting XML files and creating a few new ones in a specific directory on the user's computer allows for a "device" to be added to TPD easily. Figuring out how the XML files were linked and modifying a few images at midnight while being distracted by the World Poker Tour took a bit longer than what I had hoped. Attached is what I was able to do in a couple of hours (hey, I was distracted!) But when you install their program to sync, I'd bet these files are loaded into a certain directly - which I'm guessing also would be a EULA violation.
Now, these assumptions are based off of what I would do if I were to do the same thing for my Android phone. If I were them, I'd be a little bit worried about the reverse engineering speculation that I'm guessing AMX could start if interested. Granted, doing some modifications or reverse engineering of any kind is discouraged - but once you start "making money" off of it, I'm only going to guess that's when companies really don't like it.
Ummm.....see above.
Edit like this: (check attachment)
Not to derail, but I do have the Hero - great phone. After reading about the Nexus One - I wish it did CDMA to work on Sprint's network . . . but oh well. I'm happy with the Hero. I'm trying my hand at some AMX apps - but currently I'm just too darn busy to actually implement anything. If I was able to use a DLL on the Java based phone - I'd have something up and going soon as I'm not about to decipher or write my own ICSP interpreter.
Check my post above to see how sexy the hero looks
To transfer through TPD4, yes - you'd need to do some emulation or hacking to make the program transfer to it. You can make a "device" show up in TPD4 as a transferable item, but it just won't actually take it. This is not how TPC is doing it though.
In the video, it shows that you sync the tp4 file - but as I pointed out, I suspect they extract all of the actual files out of the compiled file (the TP4 file.) Then, some code is on the iPhone / iPod to parse out the XML file of the pages and displays them correctly. If one were so inclined (as TPC appears to be) you could do this with a lot of effort. I've spent some time laying out how to do it, at least as a Microsoft .NET program. I started to play around and theorize that it is possible to create a .NET program that could as an emulator - with communication to an AMX processor. I might play around with my theory and idea once a few jobs are over and I have some "spare" time - but will never take it to the point of selling or sharing whatever I come up with.
Either way - what they've presented is a very cool application. Legal? Not sure. Against AMX EULAs - most likely. Would I purchase it before AMX makes some sort of "ruling" on whether they endorse this or not? No way.
Not it the store, its a manual install. see http://iridiummobile.net/
It works well in general, but is limited in that your TP4 file needs to use your own graphics for everything - no system graphics are transfered.
I've not rolled this out to any clients but have played around a bit.
I guess I meant is this only a UI hardware limitation? What about on the processor side?
Once it is uploaded and attempts to connect to the master, it shows up as a native AMX device - this is then down to your interpretation of whether the freely available ICS Net protocol is restricted or not.
Modifying TP4 to include your own device as an option is more tricky.
1) When AMX release an update to TP4, presumably this will over-write the modifications and so will require reseting.
2) The use of AMX owned graphical elements without license is surely in breach of the EULA
It would be very interesting to hear AMX's view on all this. Surely AMX must be working on something along these lines (despite the NXV300 product) themselves...
It'd be a very stupid business decision in my opinion.
Additional though: the panels have got to be the gold in AMX's cash flow. Think about it, a single job can have one NI-4100 and 20 touch panels. You think they want to lose maybe 4 or 5 panels on one job?
I would say that selling a AMX App would be a major boost to many jobs - I would guess that every job would spec at least one - often 4 or 5 as it is unique to each user and I would think that would be in addition to the normal TP sales.
In other markets this would actually enable new sales of AMX hardware. There are loads of applications that use a set of Keypads & would certainly welcome the added flexibility of something like this.
Set a sensible RRP and you are looking a good profit for the dealer and for AMX.
What's more "simpler" than having an NI-2100, and 2 iPhone Apps?
I dunno . . . might be a booster, but I just don't see it.
A Pronto Pro, or Universal MX-6000 ... both small touch panels with some very good integration modules, supporting IP devices and RS-232. I can tell you they are what I have been filling in the low end with, and for one-room theaters or basic multi-room, they are more than up to the job.
I can understand why AMX aquired ProCon, but lets face it those Keypads (sorry control pads) are not cool or aspirational - and I use a fair few of them.
Virtually every CEO has been telling their board - get me an iPhone App - for the last couple of years. Nearly every product launched in any market is accompanied by an App - nothing but marketing tosh and the desire to be associated with a cool product.
Residential or Commercial - I think there is massive mileage in this route for AMX.
I'm just torn on this whole thing. If TPC does not either (1) get a cease and desist from AMX (not that I expect it, but I wouldn't be surprised), (2) get bought up by AMX - then I'll assume AMX just doesn't care about the whole thing . . . but I do suspect someone's gotta care.
Here's the bottom line to this conversation (IMHO) - if a 3rd party product (that had been made by hacks and possibly protocol sniffing) does not help in creating more sales for a company and instead potentially takes them away - then I for one personally would not support it as a dealer (if I were an owner of a dealership.) If I'm not going to make money which in turn affects AMX - why would i want to support that? To me, it's about money and loyalty (in that order.) If you can make money from the company who supports you heavily - why would anyone in their right mind choose someone else over them?
Anyway - gotta get back to work . . . probably won't post for a bit.
I've asked TPC what the position on AMX approval (and the updating TP4 situation) - and will post any reply I receive as and when...
I think we're agreed on the main point - we'd both rather support AMX than a third party companys back-door product.
I look forward to this myself in that every single one of our clients and/or propspective clients over the past 18 months have asked for iPhone apps for their system. Most our clients are fairly savvy about this stuff and when we'd tell them, 'not-so-much' they'd instantly ask about Savant. Like it or hate it, it's there and we'll all have to deal with it.
I run my personal AMX system on my iPhone right now and have found the platform to be very stable. It certainly handles a wireless connection much better than the AMX touch panels I have sitting right next to them.
These kinds of things don't happen in a vacuum. The reason they are being done is that AMX has not offered anything to date that fills this blank. When we were all complaing about this about 9 months ago on the forum, we were told to cool our jets and settle down; they (AMX) had it under control. (the whole Savant/iPhone/AMX TP interface future plans discussion)
iPhone apps aren't hard to write. The programming environment is pretty standard stuff. I find it hard to fathom why they haven't come out with something unless there is a genuine desire to NOT have something.
So, if that's the case, then why should they care if someone else does come along and write it for them?
I can sell quite a few small NI-700s with an iPhone/iTouch interface systems. For us, there's a big hole right there to fill. Our high-end customers universally demand it and in the last 3 months we've actually had to go with another control system because AMX doesn't offer it.
Hopefully, it'll play out well for whomever. All I know is I really need and iPhone interface. All my clients are asking for it. I honestly don't care who provides it. either party will get my money.
I believe the NXV-300 fills the void. Perfectly? Sure if you dont' mind using VNC on your phone.
Using the ICSP (small packets) compared to VNC (I'm guessing very large packets) would be preferred, but nonetheless - the void IS indeed filled.