If I were still in the resi business and providing advanced systems to clients (through dealers that I support), I would absolutely jump on the iPad and create a cool app that enhances everything that AMX does. From everything that I have read or heard about Apple's SDK is that it isn't some new piece of magic or software language. If you are a successful programmer writing advanced AMX solutions, you can probably handle Apple's SDK, from what I understand. I plan to find out soon myself.
You should find out SOON then. Apple will reject applications if there're too many similar ones already up on the app store. You can spend a lot of time and money developing an app for Apple's devices only to have it rejected with little reason given . . .
Did read the rest of my post? Compare it to an amx panel.
Big, Ugly Bezel
Have you seen the bezel on this thing?! It's huge! I know you don't want to accidentally input a command when your thumb is holding it, but come on.
Compared to an AMX bezel it's better, it might be wide, but it doesn't stick forward like a sore thumb.
No Multitasking
This is a backbreaker. If this is supposed to be a replacement for netbooks, how can it possibly not have multitasking? Are you saying I can't listen to Pandora while writing a document? I can't have my Twitter app open at the same time as my browser? I can't have AIM open at the same time as my email? Are you kidding me? This alone guarantees that I will not buy this product.
Compared to what we currently have it isn't any different. (Though it does suck, it also sucks on my iPhone tbh)
No Cameras
No front facing camera is one thing. But no back facing camera either? Why the hell not? I can't imagine what the downside was for including at least one camera. Could this thing not handle video iChat?
Compared to what we currently have this isn't any different. Though it would be a nice addition for say someone's at the door? Or videochatting.
Touch Keyboard
So much for Apple revolutionizing tablet inputs; this is the same big, ugly touchscreen keyboard we've seen on other tablets, and unless you're lying on the couch with your knees propping it up, it'll be awkward to use.
Disagree here, it's much easier than single touch keyboards.
No HDMI Out
Want to watch those nice HD videos you downloaded from iTunes on your TV? Too damned bad! If you were truly loyal, you'd just buy an AppleTV already.
A shame, but we don't have that now either. Maybe the dock does sport this though.
The Name iPad
Get ready for Maxi pad jokes, and lots of 'em!
agreed
No Flash
No Flash is annoying but not a dealbreaker on the iPhone and iPod Touch. On something that's supposed to be closer to a netbook or laptop? It will leave huge, gaping holes in websites. I hope you don't care about streaming video! God knows not many casual internet users do. Oh wait, nevermind, they all do.
Again agreed, at least you can watch youtube though, and with HTML5 & CSS3 this isn't much of an issue anymore. (videowise)
Adapters, Adapters, Adapters
So much for those smooth lines. If you want to plug anything into this, such as a digital camera, you need all sorts of ugly adapters. You need an adapter for USB for god's sake.
use the docking station, we would anyway
It's Not Widescreen
Widescreen movies look lousy on this thing thanks to its 4:3 screen, according to Blam, who checked out some of Star Trek on one. It's like owning a 4:3 TV all over again!
Yes a shame indeed.
Doesn't Support T-Mobile 3G
Sure, it's "unlocked." But it won't work on T-Mobile, and it uses microSIMs that literally no one else uses.
I'll have to wait for the european model to see if 3g works here.
A Closed App Ecosystem
The iPad only runs apps from the App Store. The same App Store that is notorious for banning apps for no real reason, such as Google Voice. Sure, netbooks might not have touchscreens, but you can install whatever software you'd like on them. Want to run a different browser on your iPad? Too bad!
Don't see this as a bad thing, as our clients "can't go wrong" with this.
Hi Nerieru... You clearly got my post too personally.
Far from comparing the iPad with any of the AMX panels, I only noticed that it's human nature to complain. Whereas we look at this thinking "wow, now that size/price/feature would make a nice AMX panel", we also observe their community thinking that it lacks important features and, maybe, they wany something else.
All your other comments are reasonable and I am sure that on a long run, the only way to be "wanted" in your life/house is being part of the pop-techno trend, and having all your engines on to keep up with all the innovations. Whoever sets a standards and enforces it against the stream will eventually fail...
I am sure AMX is aware of this as much as Apple is, and what we currently have is the result of their "best" judgment in keeping their market share and results at the max. This is no charity...
Hi Nerieru... You clearly got my post too personally.
Far from comparing the iPad with any of the AMX panels, I only noticed that it's human nature to complain. Whereas we look at this thinking "wow, now that size/price/feature would make a nice AMX panel", we also observe their community thinking that it lacks important features and, maybe, they wany something else.
All your other comments are reasonable and I am sure that on a long run, the only way to be "wanted" in your life/house is being part of the pop-techno trend, and having all your engines on to keep up with all the innovations. Whoever sets a standards and enforces it against the stream will eventually fail...
I am sure AMX is aware of this as much as Apple is, and what we currently have is the result of their "best" judgment in keeping their market share and results at the max. This is no charity...
Don't worry I did not take it personally, the tone in my post might have been wrong.
Basically I see this as threatening to our industry, it's hard enough to explain why panels are worth their value, and this doesn't make it any easier. I would prefer this to be integrate able, but I much more hope they chose to top it with their own product. (a bit optimistic I know)
According to the euro boss "We'll be blown away next week at the ISE" A lot of new products will be launched. I admit that I'm not hopeful, so I guess it could only turn out good...
Maybe they're going to turn a touch panel through 90 degrees THE OTHER WAY!
Might take more than 90 days to thrash the bugs out of that rascal.
<optimistic>
I believe that AMX's owners may know diddly squat about the market they've bought into and also that they might have bought into that market at a time when the technological stakes were about to be raised well beyond anything they envisaged.
That said, I'm sure they're not commercially stupid.
So I'm looking forward to being blown away at ISE...(ooh er missus)
Maybe they're going to turn a touch panel through 90 degrees THE OTHER WAY!
Might take more than 90 days to thrash the bugs out of that rascal.
<optimistic>
I believe that AMX's owners may know diddly squat about the market they've bought into and also that they might have bought into that market at a time when the technological stakes were about to be raised well beyond anything they envisaged.
That said, I'm sure they're not commercially stupid.
So I'm looking forward to being blown away at ISE...(ooh er missus)
</optimistic>
or maybe, just maybe they'll allow you to flip it 180º! :O
No, wait.. I bet their marketing saw things in a whole new perspective and decided to go with a 360º flip! :O
There is a lot of whining and complaining that dealers *need* a solution to run on the Apple iPhone / iTouch / iPad or complain that they need new touch panels. It's strange that as a "top" residential dealer, we've yet to be turned down from a job because the current capabilities aren't good enough or comparable to an Apple product.
I don't think it's a problem of the hardware, but maybe (just maybe) i's the salesman not properly explaining the place and point of an AMX system. I dunno, just my opinion . . .
Raising the bar? Hardly. Maybe it's just the fact that we (the company I work for) aren't selling systems to clients who barely break 250k a year and want the world for nothing and those types of people can't accept what the place of an AMX system is or should be. I know our clients would like it, but they're not ticked off about it. I would like to see new panels from AMX for panel sake, not for trying to keep up with the Jones' who are making apple juice while AMX is making orange juice. You just can't compare and shouldn't even try.
I've not lost a job yet because of the lack of support for the iPhone platform. I'm envisaging a future where I will.
I don't "need" AMX to do anything. I sell high end residential automation solutions that are currently made up of Lutron/Kaleidescape/AMX. Ultimately if AMX gets itself enough out of sync with the market I won't be selling it and I'll replace it with something else. My criticism is made in the hope that AMX will take feedback.
As a business owner you tend to look at what's likely to happen in the future rather than what's happening now. Well you should do if you want to continue to be a business owner.
There is a lot of whining and complaining that dealers *need* a solution to run on the Apple iPhone / iTouch / iPad or complain that they need new touch panels. It's strange that as a "top" residential dealer, we've yet to be turned down from a job because the current capabilities aren't good enough or comparable to an Apple product.
I don't think it's a problem of the hardware, but maybe (just maybe) i's the salesman not properly explaining the place and point of an AMX system. I dunno, just my opinion . . .
Raising the bar? Hardly. Maybe it's just the fact that we (the company I work for) aren't selling systems to clients who barely break 250k a year and want the world for nothing. I would like to see new panels from AMX for panel sake, not for trying to keep up with the Jones' who are making apple juice while AMX is making orange juice. You just can't compare and shouldn't even try.
Set yourself on fire..
Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY?
Our industry is about going above expectations, especially on those kind of clients! So when it doesn't go above expectations that's a bad thing, but when it's going below expectations we need to seriously start thinking and tinkering!
I'm glad I'm not one of your clients, imho 'it does what we told you it would do' doesn't cut it on those clients. They expect top-notch service and an 'advanced' system, when consumer model items go above our 'advanced' something is off. Perhaps your current clients are 'stupid', but ours aren't they know what their phone's can do, and they also see the price tags on AMX equipment, and they expect more out of their €xK panels.
They expect to go out of the box, but right now the box looks like this:
There is a lot of whining and complaining that dealers *need* a solution to run on the Apple iPhone / iTouch / iPad or complain that they need new touch panels.
Have you talked to your sales guys and actually know what they're up against or just speculating? If you only deal with programming AMX you can't fully understand the dynamics that are involved in running a business or closing a deal. It's also not about how much a client has since most of my client spend in access of 5 mill on weekend homes but they still know what they want and know the value of a dollar. As I've stated before if it's a closed bid no problem but if we're up against the competition, guess what they can offer things we can't and in the end the TV will turn on and the music will play.
Now as far as needing an app to sell systems, of course we don't need an app but we don't need AMX either but we choose to sell AMX because we think it's the best but year after year the margin between AMX and the others is closing and although we are still superior in many ways in other ways we are simply the dinosaur in the room.
In recent years the focus seems to have shifted from AMX centric company to all kinds of products that seem to distract focus from what our primary interests are, AMX control systems. Now the gear thats been release in the AMX core line in recent year have been somewhat subpar, the MAX, MIO DMS, MIO Keypads, MET-ECOM (needs work), MVP5200i physical design, R4 physical design, we have SIP & Voip on a few select TPs which makes putting in a complete solution impossible. Don't you think the kitchen 15 or 17" should have the same capabilties. These are all areas where the resi sector falls short and over the years after the initial push the attenion has shifted to VA and a host of other acquisitions that don't appear to be very succesfull or useful to the resi market.
Now decisions that AMX makes affect dealers finacially so we do have more of a vested interest then an employee who simply programs or installs and dealers like myself who make the decisions that affect others have a lot more to consider than simply making a channel turn on.
Not to derail it anymore than you just tried to do - but I've already explained my signature once before. I'll even put a URL attachment to that post in my signature so no one will be confused about it. I figure it's the least I can do for people wanting to derail or try to make personal attacks. :?
I'm glad I'm not one of your clients, imho 'it does what we told you it would do' doesn't cut it on those clients. They expect top-notch service and an 'advanced' system, when consumer model items go above our 'advanced' something is off. Perhaps your current clients are 'stupid', but ours aren't they know what their phone's can do, and they also see the price tags on AMX equipment, and they expect more out of their ?xK panels.
Again - trying to derail and make attacks against my clients as being 'stupid' isn't helping. I'll guess your clients are the kind that want the world for nothing and do not understand that these things cost extra. Maybe, just maybe, our clients are smart enough to know the difference between an AMX touch panel and an Apple iPad / iPhone / iTouch / iWhateverYouWannaCallItNext.
AMX should give them the "WAUW!! That's AWESOME" effect...
Wrong - *YOU* should give the the "That's awesome" effect, not AMX. If you and I hop in a Ferrari, but only went 20 mph, would you get the "WOW!" factor you were looking for? Probably not, and then there'd be a possibility that you blame the Ferrari for not going fast when you were told it was a very fast car. It's the driver (the programmer, salesman, installer) that needs to "wow" the client - it's not AMX's job. If you (not you per se), can't do that - who's fault is that? And if you start whining and complaining that AMX is junk and isn't good - perhaps your company should have been one of the 1,000 dealers that got cut since you're not going to stand behind it.
We currently have two cleints who, 'out of hand' rejected the AMX system because they wanted the Apple based system. The iPhone app made the deal. end of story. Both over $250K. A trend? who knows. I cannot say.
They were seasoned AV clients who've owned other large AV systems. I'd hardly call them igmorant as to the capabilities of a higher end system.
For our clients approaching $350K - $600K AMX seems to win the battle in that those level systems seem to really want a lot of customization.
When I read the forums and see the responses people like us from AMX on this I tend to dispare. It's treated as such a black-n-white issue. I'm not asking AMX to ditch the whole Touch Panel thing. They have their place and justified uses that some cheapy iPhone/Blackberry app is never going to be able to do. I'm asking for them to embrace the new technology so we have some options. I want both.
I'm sick of hitting the inevitible point in our discussion with clients where they ask about web browing on the TPs, email, etc.... or "How much is the AMX iPhone app?" Especially when they've just seen it work on another control system. No amount of salesmanship or "educating the client" is going to save your there. (I am not a salesperson by the way...)
True story... at the request of a client (resi install company), I was at a meeting with a home owner who has a bit of an Apple problem, wanting to know why he couldn't control his TVs from his iPhone. There was music playing through the system from one of several AppleTVs when he jumped up stating how much he hated the current song. He then picked up his iPhone, eventually found the Remote app and then waited for that app to connect - he had already discovered that the always connected option had a nasty habit of quickly drainging the battery. By the time he managed to actually skip to the next song the previous one was almost over. Once the next song was playing I stood up suggesting I that it wasn't my favorite and without out much effort skipped to the next song using the 5200 that was sitting on the coffee table - he laughed and acknowledged the point. In the end what he really needed was a handheld remote he could use to surf channels on TV while in bed that he didn't have to worry about rolling over on and breaking when he fell asleep. He is now quite happy with the IR remote that comes with the Endeleo system that was already installed in his house.
4:3 aspect ratio (1024x768), no multi-tasking, no camera... nope, no bar raised here.
4x3 (1024x768) aspect ratio on an LED backlit, 9.7" widescreen format is still pretty significant. Thats some pretty good pixel density. I would think that multi-tasking on a 9.7" widescreen would also be a little difficult for a lot of reasons, though I would put money on it being available in the next generation of iPad. I would imagine that had the iPad rolled out with a camera of any significant quality, it may have had more of an impact on the initial price. If I had to guess, it will be an option down the road also. A camera would be considered a major upgrade and give them the ability to market the next generation. This would be fantastic for Skype and such. I cannot see a reason for buying the 3G models personally until it had a camera.
The iPad had to start somewhere, and I firmly believe that this is a solid start. Apple has virtually eliminated any other pad format at this point due to both price and marketing ability. Getting these devices out to as many people as possible isn't so much to make money on hardware, but to continue the absolute juggernaut that is iTunes and the App Store. In just a few more years, Apple could be the most dominant force in content and media across the board. No one is even close to having this sort of stance in the market, as far as I can tell.
I for one will buy the cheapest model and use the iRidium app. I can also say with about 98% certainty that I will no longer suggest AMX panels to anyone. Granted, I only retained a very small handful when I left residential, but it too signals a start for AMX...a decline. I see no point in selling someone a panel that also does not have a camera, has a 8.4" 4x3 format screen with a resolution of 800x600, no browsing ability, no multitasking, etc, etc. Of course you can do the 5" MVPs, but they are half the size, cannot run apps, allow you to read books, are overwhelmingly overpriced, etc, etc, etc. You can't even leave your house with them.
This is a brave new world and AMX should probably mention something new and inventive in the very near future. We have all but abandoned them for our projects this summer, save for a few larger applications. Maybe they should focus more on the core of the company than on building things like the bulky, cheap looking table popups. They still have a terrific product in the NetLinx masters, the best in the industry in my opinion. But that's not a great reason to stick with them forever.
Not to derail it anymore than you just tried to do - but I've already explained my signature once before. I'll even put a URL attachment to that post in my signature so no one will be confused about it. I figure it's the least I can do for people wanting to derail or try to make personal attacks. :?
Well apparently you can't take a hint at your own signature, as it says "when there's nothing left to burn, set yourself on fire"
Again - trying to derail and make attacks against my clients as being 'stupid' isn't helping. I'll guess your clients are the kind that want the world for nothing and do not understand that these things cost extra. Maybe, just maybe, our clients are smart enough to know the difference between an AMX touch panel and an Apple iPad / iPhone / iTouch / iWhateverYouWannaCallItNext.
That's in no way an attack on your clients, nor is it an attack at all, it's a defense on a statement YOU made, you apparently don't want to see further than your nose, and because you can't come up with a good argument you claim I'm derailing/attacking you.
If they're smart enough to know the difference, they also know that any touch phone/music player could do a lot an amx/whateveryouwannacallitnextcompany panel can do, yet cost far less. And then there are those exceptions that can do even more, yet still cost far less (android phones/blackberry's/HTC/windows phones)
Perhaps if you could come up with valid arguments this discussion wouldn't derail so much. Why not try to make it into just that? A discussion, that's what this board is for. Right now I would just tell you to fill in the form you have in your own sig.
Wrong - *YOU* should give the the "That's awesome" effect, not AMX. If you and I hop in a Ferrari, but only went 20 mph, would you get the "WOW!" factor you were looking for? Probably not, and then there'd be a possibility that you blame the Ferrari for not going fast when you were told it was a very fast car. It's the driver (the programmer, salesman, installer) that needs to "wow" the client - it's not AMX's job. If you (not you per se), can't do that - who's fault is that? And if you start whining and complaining that AMX is junk and isn't good - perhaps your company should have been one of the 1,000 dealers that got cut since you're not going to stand behind it.
I don't want to do ferrari's, I want to do bentley's and rolls royces. When the engine is lacking, you can fix it, but when it looks like a bentley/rolls that belongs on the heap you can't give them the "That's awesome" effect. And it is in fact AMX's responsibility to give it the WOW! factor, NOT MINE. It is THEIR product, I'm just programming it. I want to take THEIR wow, and put MY wow on top of that, but when it's just MY wow it's not as wow as it COULD be. So when the panel fails to respond quickly enough people look at me, and I need to tell them that things like that can happen. Yet they shouldn't, not on ?xxxk system.
I do stand behind AMX, however I do want them to change their philosophy. However I'm talking strictly residential here, as those systems are MUCH more personal. AMX works great commercially especially when you've got several people using the same system. It's important it's really really easy to use, robust and reliable. AMX's got those things for commercial projects.
When I look at the residential market though a lot more is expected, especially when it's an expensive system. (though most clients don't see it as such, they see it as a luxury system and that's why I'm saying the expectations are high.)
I want to top those expectations, but when people ask me why it doesn't sport multi-touch? Or gestures? (not talking about the crappy ones using a button and determining where the touch is going..) Or why they can browse the internet using their ipod/iphone or android/windows/nokia/whateveryouwannacallitnext cell. I simply can't, yet you say it's MY fault?
It seems you have easy clients, and I sincerely think that's great for you. However my clients expect to get a 'top-notch' system, top-notch support and that 'touch' to them. I hope to get that done for them, however sometimes it takes 3 weeks before I get a replacement part/product when one breaks. I generally lend them one of our panels, but it would be give them an extra 'touch' if they get replacements really quick.
Well maybe it's just because I'm european and I have european clients AND I'm dealing with AMX europe. But not everything is up to the standard I and more importantly my clients expect.
There are a lot of reasons why I can't. And if you open your eyes maybe you'll see them as well.
Of course if you compare AMX to other companies in this branche it's quite good, however it's not what it could be.
And finally it might be that you've taken an offense at the way I post here, this was not my intention. I do not mean to flame you or others. However you ridicule me and my ideals and that is not something I can simply ignore.
Good luck to you, and I hope that in the future we can simply discuss matters in a more professional way.
And it is in fact AMX's responsibility to give it the WOW! factor, NOT MINE. It is THEIR product, I'm just programming it. I want to take THEIR wow, and put MY wow on top of that, but when it's just MY wow it's not as wow as it COULD be.
I wonder if this is all real wow though, or is some of it sham wow
<putting on customers hat>
Unless I missed something, the core of AMX is all about integrating devices that would otherwise not talk to each other. My projector is one of those items, and so is my DVD player. Why couldn't the iPad be another one of those devices?
</putting on customers hat>
I suppose I can ask such questions given that I'm not a dealer. I can understand that the business side is more complex than what I've been exposed to, so I'll jump back into my utopian environment for the rest of this post.
While it would be lovely for AMX to produce an app for the iPad/iPhone/iPod touch which takes their standard G4 pages, this is not the only way to take advantage of such products. There is nothing prohibiting us from writing an iPhoneOS app + AMX module, which runs our own comms protocol and reads our own GUI files. It seems that to take full advantage of a multi-touch interface you may want to build quite a few controls that are not currently available in TPDesign anyway.
If I had lots of spare time I'd rather write an app + module that could pull down the GUI layout from the AMX master if the master had a newer/non-matching GUI. This would allow my techs to connect to our several hundred masters, and each time they connect they would get a GUI that is relevant to that master.
Limitations - the AlwaysOn experience would be limited to push/pull notifications. The client would then have to decide to launch the app and deal with the notification. In a residential context this could be assisted by playing a tone over the in-house audio system using a audio generating device like http://www.technovision.com/tecmp3.html or similar. If the client is deliberately trying to control something (and has the app open) then there should be no issues with immediate feedback.
Oh, and as for Apple playing Big Brother with the App Store, can't you develop/deliver via the manual provisioning mechanism rather than the AppStore? It's a bit more clunky, but it works. You manually import two files (the app and a provisioning file) into your iTunes library and then sync. You miss out on the automatic update mechanism that the App Store provides, but this may be seen as a benefit if you have made tight dependencies between the app and AMX module versions.
That type of productioin doesn't just happen overnight. This had to have been done prior to the release and who knows, maybe by apple. They make their initial release a partial disappointment so the next release which includes more features will be better excepted cuz no matter what they include initially someone will be dissappointed amount something that's not included. In the mean time they can generate some revenue, they can judge consumer reaction and see what they like and what pisses them off because it's not included or supported. It could be a stroke of genius or something else completely but it makes ya wonder, hmmm, which came first the video or the iPad release and by who.
That type of productioin doesn't just happen overnight.
Really? It was probably done last night...
If you can click a mouse and follow a facebook or email link, you?ve seen them on Youtube. You watch a famous film clip of Hitler ranting in German to his cringing staff and hangers-on, with modern subtitles covering any number of current issues, from the mortgage meltdown to Kanye West. There have been over 100 parodies to date, bringing new life to the relatively obscure 2004 Hitler bio pic ?Downfall.?... http://yesbuthowever.com/youtube-hitler-parody-8136504/
I guess it's possible, I keep forgetting there's a bunch a folks just sitting around doing those types of skits for the various TV shows all the time, Saturday Night and such. I don't tend to watch this type of stuff so I am a bit out of touch. I'd rather watch FOX news. So I'm sure that is quite possible from a full network production company and a staff of writers. I obviously didn't think of that possibility. So much for a stroke of genius, guess I gave them too much credit.
If you try and judge the iPad by its features though, you are kind of missing the point. The point isn't the features or even the price. Its the form factor and human computer interaction paradigm they are trying to change. Fortunately they have great tech too, so they can build a more consolidated package than a netbook running windows. If sales take off they can always juice up the hardware.
I think they think that because of its size and touch screen, it will make for a very natural and intuitive computing experience. People will be walking around cradling them in their arms like new born babies. And if you think its just a big iPhone you should watch the key note. Its really not.
I prefer 4:3 for general viewing, and find widescreen is terrible for reading long documents. Not supporting flash is a good thing, I hate it anyway, and hope it dies a quick death, and not having multitasking is probably also a good thing, because if you want good HCI it has to respond immediately or sooner. I think this will end up being the Goldilocks size for many consumers. Plus the business model is cool as they can subsidize the hardware with a revenue stream from songs, books, apps, etc. An iPad that spoke ICSP with an AMX controller would be an interesting combination.
Paul
I'm not going to take much time because I'd rather not waste it on your response, but it was nothing that I didn't expect.
Then I guess I gave you the WAUW! effect..
Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.
Anyhow, to get back on track. I'm curious to see with what kind of apps people come up with here. And others in the market, maybe AMX will even come with a good app of their own.
And I'm curious about those new products they mentioned, curious to see if they're a major improvement or not.
I guess it's possible, I keep forgetting there's a bunch a folks just sitting around doing those types of skits for the various TV shows all the time, Saturday Night and such. I don't tend to watch this type of stuff so I am a bit out of touch. I'd rather watch FOX news. So I'm sure that is quite possible from a full network production company and a staff of writers. I obviously didn't think of that possibility. So much for a stroke of genius, guess I gave them too much credit.
They just added text lines to a movie clip. I've seen the exact same clip done with text of the generals breaking the news to Hitler that his XBox Live account was suspended ... very funny.
the film is Downfall (Der Untergang). Apart from the fact that this scene is almost totally ruined for me now (Xbox Live, Manchester Derby, Liverpool's beach ball goal), it's a stunning film
But for the parodies go to YouTube and search for Hitler reacts
I presented an alternative philosophy, and you tried to pick it a part like an unprofessional whack-off, and I'd prefer not to go there. So if that makes you think that you "win" some stupid little debate, have at it. Grow up.
What I find the best part of this whole thread is most have their two cents on how to run AMX - as if they don't know what they're doing.
What I find the best part of this whole thread is most have their two cents on how to run AMX - as if they don't know what they're doing.
AMX are my second biggest supplier. I make product, capital and resourcing decisions that are informed by what AMX does and what AMX is likely to do in the future. I have no interest in telling AMX how to run their business but I have a huge interest in understanding what their decisions might be. Decisions by AMX on how they address the evolution of the residential market affect my business so I feel quite comfortable coming on here and debating it.
This thread has generated a bit of heat, there's more acrimony here than most threads on these forums. I'm not looking to stoke that further.
AMX are my second biggest supplier. I make product, capital and resourcing decisions that are informed by what AMX does and what AMX is likely to do in the future. I have no interest in telling AMX how to run their business but I have a huge interest in understanding what their decisions might be. Decisions by AMX on how they address the evolution of the residential market affect my business so I feel quite comfortable coming on here and debating it.
This thread has generated a bit of heat, there's more acrimony here than most threads on these forums. I'm not looking to stoke that further.
iainshaw, that is a great statement to read. Being on the consumer side of things while at work, I can tell you that they have lost a ton of momentum from my perspective. Their product, while still quite good, cannot compete with the ease of use and fractional price points of other manufacturers. No one is directly trying to tell AMX how to do things. But this is their forum and it may be worth something for them to at least see some other perspectives and ideas for future product. That being said, I want my new iPad to control my NI-3000. One way or another it will happen...
Comments
You should find out SOON then. Apple will reject applications if there're too many similar ones already up on the app store. You can spend a lot of time and money developing an app for Apple's devices only to have it rejected with little reason given . . .
R
Did read the rest of my post? Compare it to an amx panel.
Compared to an AMX bezel it's better, it might be wide, but it doesn't stick forward like a sore thumb.
Compared to what we currently have it isn't any different. (Though it does suck, it also sucks on my iPhone tbh)
Compared to what we currently have this isn't any different. Though it would be a nice addition for say someone's at the door? Or videochatting.
Disagree here, it's much easier than single touch keyboards.
A shame, but we don't have that now either. Maybe the dock does sport this though.
agreed
Again agreed, at least you can watch youtube though, and with HTML5 & CSS3 this isn't much of an issue anymore. (videowise)
use the docking station, we would anyway
Yes a shame indeed.
I'll have to wait for the european model to see if 3g works here.
Don't see this as a bad thing, as our clients "can't go wrong" with this.
Far from comparing the iPad with any of the AMX panels, I only noticed that it's human nature to complain. Whereas we look at this thinking "wow, now that size/price/feature would make a nice AMX panel", we also observe their community thinking that it lacks important features and, maybe, they wany something else.
All your other comments are reasonable and I am sure that on a long run, the only way to be "wanted" in your life/house is being part of the pop-techno trend, and having all your engines on to keep up with all the innovations. Whoever sets a standards and enforces it against the stream will eventually fail...
I am sure AMX is aware of this as much as Apple is, and what we currently have is the result of their "best" judgment in keeping their market share and results at the max. This is no charity...
Don't worry I did not take it personally, the tone in my post might have been wrong.
Basically I see this as threatening to our industry, it's hard enough to explain why panels are worth their value, and this doesn't make it any easier. I would prefer this to be integrate able, but I much more hope they chose to top it with their own product. (a bit optimistic I know)
According to the euro boss "We'll be blown away next week at the ISE" A lot of new products will be launched. I admit that I'm not hopeful, so I guess it could only turn out good...
I'll keep you all updated about the ISE.
Maybe they're going to turn a touch panel through 90 degrees THE OTHER WAY!
Might take more than 90 days to thrash the bugs out of that rascal.
<optimistic>
I believe that AMX's owners may know diddly squat about the market they've bought into and also that they might have bought into that market at a time when the technological stakes were about to be raised well beyond anything they envisaged.
That said, I'm sure they're not commercially stupid.
So I'm looking forward to being blown away at ISE...(ooh er missus)
</optimistic>
or maybe, just maybe they'll allow you to flip it 180º! :O
No, wait.. I bet their marketing saw things in a whole new perspective and decided to go with a 360º flip! :O
button_event[human,mind] { push: { on[optimism]; } release: { off[optimism]; } hold[25920000 /* 30 days */, repeat]: { on[joy]; } }Now if only AMX manages to push my button, and keep it pushed!
There is a lot of whining and complaining that dealers *need* a solution to run on the Apple iPhone / iTouch / iPad or complain that they need new touch panels. It's strange that as a "top" residential dealer, we've yet to be turned down from a job because the current capabilities aren't good enough or comparable to an Apple product.
I don't think it's a problem of the hardware, but maybe (just maybe) i's the salesman not properly explaining the place and point of an AMX system. I dunno, just my opinion . . .
Raising the bar? Hardly. Maybe it's just the fact that we (the company I work for) aren't selling systems to clients who barely break 250k a year and want the world for nothing and those types of people can't accept what the place of an AMX system is or should be. I know our clients would like it, but they're not ticked off about it. I would like to see new panels from AMX for panel sake, not for trying to keep up with the Jones' who are making apple juice while AMX is making orange juice. You just can't compare and shouldn't even try.
I've not lost a job yet because of the lack of support for the iPhone platform. I'm envisaging a future where I will.
I don't "need" AMX to do anything. I sell high end residential automation solutions that are currently made up of Lutron/Kaleidescape/AMX. Ultimately if AMX gets itself enough out of sync with the market I won't be selling it and I'll replace it with something else. My criticism is made in the hope that AMX will take feedback.
As a business owner you tend to look at what's likely to happen in the future rather than what's happening now. Well you should do if you want to continue to be a business owner.
Set yourself on fire..
Seriously? I mean SERIOUSLY?
Our industry is about going above expectations, especially on those kind of clients! So when it doesn't go above expectations that's a bad thing, but when it's going below expectations we need to seriously start thinking and tinkering!
I'm glad I'm not one of your clients, imho 'it does what we told you it would do' doesn't cut it on those clients. They expect top-notch service and an 'advanced' system, when consumer model items go above our 'advanced' something is off. Perhaps your current clients are 'stupid', but ours aren't they know what their phone's can do, and they also see the price tags on AMX equipment, and they expect more out of their €xK panels.
They expect to go out of the box, but right now the box looks like this:
AMX should give them the "WAUW!! That's AWESOME" effect, but the hardware capabilities aren't up to par with current consumer electronics.
I want to give my clients that feeling, because frankly that's what they will pay me for.
Now as far as needing an app to sell systems, of course we don't need an app but we don't need AMX either but we choose to sell AMX because we think it's the best but year after year the margin between AMX and the others is closing and although we are still superior in many ways in other ways we are simply the dinosaur in the room.
In recent years the focus seems to have shifted from AMX centric company to all kinds of products that seem to distract focus from what our primary interests are, AMX control systems. Now the gear thats been release in the AMX core line in recent year have been somewhat subpar, the MAX, MIO DMS, MIO Keypads, MET-ECOM (needs work), MVP5200i physical design, R4 physical design, we have SIP & Voip on a few select TPs which makes putting in a complete solution impossible. Don't you think the kitchen 15 or 17" should have the same capabilties. These are all areas where the resi sector falls short and over the years after the initial push the attenion has shifted to VA and a host of other acquisitions that don't appear to be very succesfull or useful to the resi market.
Now decisions that AMX makes affect dealers finacially so we do have more of a vested interest then an employee who simply programs or installs and dealers like myself who make the decisions that affect others have a lot more to consider than simply making a channel turn on.
Blind faith can only get you so far in life.
Again - trying to derail and make attacks against my clients as being 'stupid' isn't helping. I'll guess your clients are the kind that want the world for nothing and do not understand that these things cost extra. Maybe, just maybe, our clients are smart enough to know the difference between an AMX touch panel and an Apple iPad / iPhone / iTouch / iWhateverYouWannaCallItNext.
Which is why I guess we have the clients we do.
Wrong - *YOU* should give the the "That's awesome" effect, not AMX. If you and I hop in a Ferrari, but only went 20 mph, would you get the "WOW!" factor you were looking for? Probably not, and then there'd be a possibility that you blame the Ferrari for not going fast when you were told it was a very fast car. It's the driver (the programmer, salesman, installer) that needs to "wow" the client - it's not AMX's job. If you (not you per se), can't do that - who's fault is that? And if you start whining and complaining that AMX is junk and isn't good - perhaps your company should have been one of the 1,000 dealers that got cut since you're not going to stand behind it.
There's no reason why you can't.
They were seasoned AV clients who've owned other large AV systems. I'd hardly call them igmorant as to the capabilities of a higher end system.
For our clients approaching $350K - $600K AMX seems to win the battle in that those level systems seem to really want a lot of customization.
When I read the forums and see the responses people like us from AMX on this I tend to dispare. It's treated as such a black-n-white issue. I'm not asking AMX to ditch the whole Touch Panel thing. They have their place and justified uses that some cheapy iPhone/Blackberry app is never going to be able to do. I'm asking for them to embrace the new technology so we have some options. I want both.
I'm sick of hitting the inevitible point in our discussion with clients where they ask about web browing on the TPs, email, etc.... or "How much is the AMX iPhone app?" Especially when they've just seen it work on another control system. No amount of salesmanship or "educating the client" is going to save your there. (I am not a salesperson by the way...)
4x3 (1024x768) aspect ratio on an LED backlit, 9.7" widescreen format is still pretty significant. Thats some pretty good pixel density. I would think that multi-tasking on a 9.7" widescreen would also be a little difficult for a lot of reasons, though I would put money on it being available in the next generation of iPad. I would imagine that had the iPad rolled out with a camera of any significant quality, it may have had more of an impact on the initial price. If I had to guess, it will be an option down the road also. A camera would be considered a major upgrade and give them the ability to market the next generation. This would be fantastic for Skype and such. I cannot see a reason for buying the 3G models personally until it had a camera.
The iPad had to start somewhere, and I firmly believe that this is a solid start. Apple has virtually eliminated any other pad format at this point due to both price and marketing ability. Getting these devices out to as many people as possible isn't so much to make money on hardware, but to continue the absolute juggernaut that is iTunes and the App Store. In just a few more years, Apple could be the most dominant force in content and media across the board. No one is even close to having this sort of stance in the market, as far as I can tell.
I for one will buy the cheapest model and use the iRidium app. I can also say with about 98% certainty that I will no longer suggest AMX panels to anyone. Granted, I only retained a very small handful when I left residential, but it too signals a start for AMX...a decline. I see no point in selling someone a panel that also does not have a camera, has a 8.4" 4x3 format screen with a resolution of 800x600, no browsing ability, no multitasking, etc, etc. Of course you can do the 5" MVPs, but they are half the size, cannot run apps, allow you to read books, are overwhelmingly overpriced, etc, etc, etc. You can't even leave your house with them.
This is a brave new world and AMX should probably mention something new and inventive in the very near future. We have all but abandoned them for our projects this summer, save for a few larger applications. Maybe they should focus more on the core of the company than on building things like the bulky, cheap looking table popups. They still have a terrific product in the NetLinx masters, the best in the industry in my opinion. But that's not a great reason to stick with them forever.
Well apparently you can't take a hint at your own signature, as it says "when there's nothing left to burn, set yourself on fire"
That's in no way an attack on your clients, nor is it an attack at all, it's a defense on a statement YOU made, you apparently don't want to see further than your nose, and because you can't come up with a good argument you claim I'm derailing/attacking you.
If they're smart enough to know the difference, they also know that any touch phone/music player could do a lot an amx/whateveryouwannacallitnextcompany panel can do, yet cost far less. And then there are those exceptions that can do even more, yet still cost far less (android phones/blackberry's/HTC/windows phones)
Perhaps if you could come up with valid arguments this discussion wouldn't derail so much. Why not try to make it into just that? A discussion, that's what this board is for. Right now I would just tell you to fill in the form you have in your own sig.
You mean the ones who just want to spend money and don't care about what they get, so they can just say that it's a 500k system? Well lucky you..
I don't want to do ferrari's, I want to do bentley's and rolls royces. When the engine is lacking, you can fix it, but when it looks like a bentley/rolls that belongs on the heap you can't give them the "That's awesome" effect. And it is in fact AMX's responsibility to give it the WOW! factor, NOT MINE. It is THEIR product, I'm just programming it. I want to take THEIR wow, and put MY wow on top of that, but when it's just MY wow it's not as wow as it COULD be. So when the panel fails to respond quickly enough people look at me, and I need to tell them that things like that can happen. Yet they shouldn't, not on ?xxxk system.
I do stand behind AMX, however I do want them to change their philosophy. However I'm talking strictly residential here, as those systems are MUCH more personal. AMX works great commercially especially when you've got several people using the same system. It's important it's really really easy to use, robust and reliable. AMX's got those things for commercial projects.
When I look at the residential market though a lot more is expected, especially when it's an expensive system. (though most clients don't see it as such, they see it as a luxury system and that's why I'm saying the expectations are high.)
I want to top those expectations, but when people ask me why it doesn't sport multi-touch? Or gestures? (not talking about the crappy ones using a button and determining where the touch is going..) Or why they can browse the internet using their ipod/iphone or android/windows/nokia/whateveryouwannacallitnext cell. I simply can't, yet you say it's MY fault?
It seems you have easy clients, and I sincerely think that's great for you. However my clients expect to get a 'top-notch' system, top-notch support and that 'touch' to them. I hope to get that done for them, however sometimes it takes 3 weeks before I get a replacement part/product when one breaks. I generally lend them one of our panels, but it would be give them an extra 'touch' if they get replacements really quick.
Well maybe it's just because I'm european and I have european clients AND I'm dealing with AMX europe. But not everything is up to the standard I and more importantly my clients expect.
There are a lot of reasons why I can't. And if you open your eyes maybe you'll see them as well.
Of course if you compare AMX to other companies in this branche it's quite good, however it's not what it could be.
And finally it might be that you've taken an offense at the way I post here, this was not my intention. I do not mean to flame you or others. However you ridicule me and my ideals and that is not something I can simply ignore.
Good luck to you, and I hope that in the future we can simply discuss matters in a more professional way.
I wonder if this is all real wow though, or is some of it sham wow
mpullin wrote: Now that's what this thread needed, a little humor. To freakin funny!
Unless I missed something, the core of AMX is all about integrating devices that would otherwise not talk to each other. My projector is one of those items, and so is my DVD player. Why couldn't the iPad be another one of those devices?
</putting on customers hat>
I suppose I can ask such questions given that I'm not a dealer. I can understand that the business side is more complex than what I've been exposed to, so I'll jump back into my utopian environment for the rest of this post.
While it would be lovely for AMX to produce an app for the iPad/iPhone/iPod touch which takes their standard G4 pages, this is not the only way to take advantage of such products. There is nothing prohibiting us from writing an iPhoneOS app + AMX module, which runs our own comms protocol and reads our own GUI files. It seems that to take full advantage of a multi-touch interface you may want to build quite a few controls that are not currently available in TPDesign anyway.
If I had lots of spare time
Limitations - the AlwaysOn experience would be limited to push/pull notifications. The client would then have to decide to launch the app and deal with the notification. In a residential context this could be assisted by playing a tone over the in-house audio system using a audio generating device like http://www.technovision.com/tecmp3.html or similar. If the client is deliberately trying to control something (and has the app open) then there should be no issues with immediate feedback.
Oh, and as for Apple playing Big Brother with the App Store, can't you develop/deliver via the manual provisioning mechanism rather than the AppStore? It's a bit more clunky, but it works. You manually import two files (the app and a provisioning file) into your iTunes library and then sync. You miss out on the automatic update mechanism that the App Store provides, but this may be seen as a benefit if you have made tight dependencies between the app and AMX module versions.
My 2 cents worth,
Roger McLean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4&feature=player_embedded
Really? It was probably done last night...
I'm not going to take much time because I'd rather not waste it on your response, but it was nothing that I didn't expect.
I think they think that because of its size and touch screen, it will make for a very natural and intuitive computing experience. People will be walking around cradling them in their arms like new born babies. And if you think its just a big iPhone you should watch the key note. Its really not.
I prefer 4:3 for general viewing, and find widescreen is terrible for reading long documents. Not supporting flash is a good thing, I hate it anyway, and hope it dies a quick death, and not having multitasking is probably also a good thing, because if you want good HCI it has to respond immediately or sooner. I think this will end up being the Goldilocks size for many consumers. Plus the business model is cool as they can subsidize the hardware with a revenue stream from songs, books, apps, etc. An iPad that spoke ICSP with an AMX controller would be an interesting combination.
Paul
Then I guess I gave you the WAUW! effect..
Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.
Anyhow, to get back on track. I'm curious to see with what kind of apps people come up with here. And others in the market, maybe AMX will even come with a good app of their own.
And I'm curious about those new products they mentioned, curious to see if they're a major improvement or not.
They just added text lines to a movie clip. I've seen the exact same clip done with text of the generals breaking the news to Hitler that his XBox Live account was suspended ... very funny.
the film is Downfall (Der Untergang). Apart from the fact that this scene is almost totally ruined for me now (Xbox Live, Manchester Derby, Liverpool's beach ball goal), it's a stunning film
But for the parodies go to YouTube and search for Hitler reacts
What I find the best part of this whole thread is most have their two cents on how to run AMX - as if they don't know what they're doing.
AMX are my second biggest supplier. I make product, capital and resourcing decisions that are informed by what AMX does and what AMX is likely to do in the future. I have no interest in telling AMX how to run their business but I have a huge interest in understanding what their decisions might be. Decisions by AMX on how they address the evolution of the residential market affect my business so I feel quite comfortable coming on here and debating it.
This thread has generated a bit of heat, there's more acrimony here than most threads on these forums. I'm not looking to stoke that further.
iainshaw, that is a great statement to read. Being on the consumer side of things while at work, I can tell you that they have lost a ton of momentum from my perspective. Their product, while still quite good, cannot compete with the ease of use and fractional price points of other manufacturers. No one is directly trying to tell AMX how to do things. But this is their forum and it may be worth something for them to at least see some other perspectives and ideas for future product. That being said, I want my new iPad to control my NI-3000. One way or another it will happen...