Brian, going to have to disagree with you on a few things - although I will admit I haven't seen it.
Like I said, wait until you see one.
The new 16x9 does not mean "no more different panel files." ... there's no need for a cursor on the panel's page ...
I understand the difference with external button...just no more aspect ratio conversions.
If the page transitions are true that they're done on the nav-pad and not the screen . . . meh.
The transitions are via the touch surface...I was able to move the page curl back and forth while maintaining my finger on the overlay.
Otherwise, yes, I would have to agree that the other things you mentioned are cool, but hardly a jump from Cadillac to Rolls Royce..."; this *actually is* a new panel. So kudos to them.
More like a new generation of the same model that is faster, more efficient, and has new features.
Sweet. How do the gestures work? Can a user swipe anyplace like when using an e-book reader or something similar to that? Can we swipe across multiple buttons? Is there anything you more you can tell us or can you point us to a document to read?
Thanks.
P.S. Sorry about the Chubbies Brian and I’ll be really sorry if they get swept (or swiped) tonight...tee hee.
I'm not seeing the sexiness of it going to a wired connection when docked. Can someone tickle my imagination a little? The only thing I can think of is that if the WAPs go down it'll still work.
Less wireless traffic meaning potentially higher throughput for other devices.
No need for wireless if permanently docked.
Fallback if wireless is dead.
Higher throughput for video and the like when docked.
I don't know about AMX's implementation, but with Ethernet as it is and the competiton as an example, the panel will have two IPs.
Re: online/offline events, this is a good question.
I'm not seeing the sexiness of it going to a wired connection when docked. Can someone tickle my imagination a little? The only thing I can think of is that if the WAPs go down it'll still work.
So very confused....
Doesn’t a wired connection stand a better chance of staying online than a wireless one? I see that as a positive. And as you said if the WAP goes down for any reason nothing is lost. One less variable in the equation. That’s a good thing. Maybe not sexy but still attractive.
Also if you have a panel that is designed to roam and if we get notification when the wired connection is established (I don’t know if that actually happens or not), we could then automatically revert the panel back for control of the room that it’s docked in.
Also if you have a panel that is designed to roam and if we get notification when the wired connection is established (I don’t know if that actually happens or not), we could then automatically revert the panel back for control of the room that it’s docked in.
Now this I understand and would agree it's cool then.
I just see a wireless panel being used as a wireless device, not as a wired device. How often do you talk on your phone when it's plugged into the wall? I do only when the battery is low. To me, a wireless panel is meant to sit on your lap, or wherever is most comfortable, not leaning over to an end table or to a coffee table to press pause. I guess I see no real advantage to be honest . . . sort of like those auto-dimming rear-view mirrors. You mean I paid how much extra for that?!
Would that be like buying a boat if you only plan to travel by land?
No, it'd be more like buying a car that can float and never really taking it out to the water.
But re: video, the competition has a panel that has video when docked, but none when wireless. I don't really understand it but we sold tons of them and even did this video setup in a few cases.
As far as docking, we've used 8400's that were almost always walldocked, but needed the option to come out of the wall at rare times. Having wired ethernet allows more certainty of connection, and thus I can see this as a worthwhile item to have.
As long as wire is run to the dock, that is...
Just because the panel is marketed as a wireless device doesn't mean it needs to be primarily wireless. My notebook is "wireless" in that it has a battery, but I'm plugged in most of the time. Why? Because I'm in the same place most of the time. Look at people who primarily use docks with their notebooks, but want the rare carry capability. This is where I see a wired connection coming in handy.
Can the TP change from potrait to landscape in real-time? Like an iPhone? This would mean it has a gyroscope or something, and it would probably be able to wake up when picked up, which would be a VERY nice addition
Judging by the discussion in this thread I'm guessing not. Don't suppose anyone's poked around inside one of the 5200's (or has any info from AMX about the 9000i's) as to whether they've put any mercury switches (or similar) in these newer wireless panels for 'future use'?
Personally (as I've ranted about before) I'd love to see some form of localization (physical position and direction) as well as movement sensing (gyro's, tilt switches etc) in the panels. That would let us do some sexy things the competition can't.
Would that be like buying a boat if you only plan to travel by land?
In Chicago for example, many people own a boat and it never leaves the dock. Think of it as a vacation home on water.
This is often true in the corporate boardroom where 95% of the time it is in the dock. JJ, since you guys only do resi systems, you are just missing a point of reference.
Not having a wired/wireless connection was often a deal breaker in congested metro areas, especially since the other guys introduced a wired/wireless option. Of course their wired/wireless panel is not Ethernet out of its dock which gives us a big advantage in speed and features. They can't do M-JPEG streaming and web based activities while portable. For us, there is no difference in functionality in either mode.
Judging by the discussion in this thread I'm guessing not. Don't suppose anyone's poked around inside one of the 5200's (or has any info from AMX about the 9000i's) as to whether they've put any mercury switches (or similar) in these newer wireless panels for 'future use'?
Oh heaven's no! Mercury is bad, even in the slightest and has been banned for our good health in the use of remotes! (please read with sarcasm and my displeasure)
In Chicago for example, many people own a boat and it never leaves the dock. Think of it as a vacation home on water.
That's just INSANE!! Maybe because the gas is too darn expensive to take it out! I plan on coming up in the next few weeks, I'll need to check this crazy phenomenon out!
This is often true in the corporate boardroom where 95% of the time it is in the dock. JJ, since you guys only do resi systems, you are just missing a point of reference.
Ok, now you're talking. In all of the jobs I have done, I cannot recall an in-wall wireless panel as we've always have gone with a table docking station. Now, our company does have a client that has a couple of in-wall 5200s, not sure if they ever get taken out, but I'd imagine they do.
Regardless, I'm still not seeing a huge advantage (in resi and in our applications) to go wired with a wireless device. I dunno . . . "old dog"-"new trick"-complex?
Oh heaven's no! Mercury is bad, even in the slightest and has been banned for our good health in the use of remotes! (please read with sarcasm and my displeasure)
Mercury is bad, even in the slightest. (please read without sarcasm)
I am immensely bothered by the "it is only a little bit, it won't hurt you" attitude.
A "little bit" of something harmful, mass produced then later tossed in the trash (ie into the ground) = a huge problem. I applaud companies that adhere to environmentally sound practices, not just during production, but also taking into consideration what happens after the "life" of the product.
Mercury is bad, even in the slightest. (please read without sarcasm)
Tell that to the hundreds-of-thousands (millions probably?) of adults that played with mercury as a kid , used it to clean up their coins, and rolled it around in their hands all the time . . . wanna talk to my dad? He's still here and kickin' just fine.
A "little bit" of something harmful, mass produced then later tossed in the trash (ie into the ground) = a huge problem. I applaud companies that adhere to environmentally sound practices, not just during production, but also taking into consideration what happens after the "life" of the product.
Can you say "compact fluorescent lightbulbs?"
Anyway, I can only say that I disagree on many levels. Let's discuss over a drink next time you visit the Lake.
Tell that to the hundreds-of-thousands (millions probably?) of adults that played with mercury as a kid , used it to clean up their coins, and rolled it around in their hands all the time . . . wanna talk to my dad? He's still here and kickin' just fine.
Can you say "compact fluorescent lightbulbs?"
Anyway, I can only say that I disagree on many levels. Let's discuss over a drink next time you visit the Lake.
I hate to be contrary, but since I am personally looking at a year or more of expensive, not-covered-by-insurance treatments to remove mercury (and lead) from my system, I'd have to say don't make light of it. It's true that your body can deal with small amounts of mercury, but very small ones ... and any other factor involved can ramp it up to a burden that your body cannot deal with. In my case, it was the lead (bad habits with soldering, I'd hold it in my mouth when I needed an extra hand). Mercury binds to lead, so it accumulated until I was literally exhausted all the time. I'm not talking sleepy here, but head-spinning, beaten-with-a-club exhausted. It wasn't enough to be called overt mercury poisoning, which would have been easier to find and deal with, but quite enough to really mess me up badly. It took five years of testing to even get to the point where I suspected heavy metals, and even that was a hunch. And it took well over a decade to get to the point where I felt it. So now, though I am not-quite-fifty, I have about the personal energy of a 80-year-old. Actually, I know some octogenarians who feel better than I do most of the time. And I have to tell you, it's nothing less that brutal to have to force yourself to be productive every day when you feel like that, and it's not like I have a choice. There are bills to pay, after all.
Oh, and to get this back on topic, the R4's use a tiny ball bearing in a box to detect movement. I'm sure that is the standard.
Not having a wired/wireless connection was often a deal breaker in congested metro areas, especially since the other guys introduced a wired/wireless option. Of course their wired/wireless panel is not Ethernet out of its dock which gives us a big advantage in speed and features. They can't do M-JPEG streaming and web based activities while portable. For us, there is no difference in functionality in either mode.
There is an option that does all of that from the other guys too.
All, you are going to need to trust me on this...the MVP-9000i is a nice leap forward in the progression of wireless touch panels for control system integration. Try not to throw stones until you actually see and play with one. And this is not designed to be a disposable consumer product.
My favorite new features:
* Integrated kickstand that works with the table and wall dock similar to the MVP-5200.
* Wired Ethernet when docked.
* 9" 800x480 16x9 panel format compatible with 5", 7" & 10" panels (no more different panel files.)
* 802.11A option for use in congested Wi-Fi environments.
* Cool set of built-in page transitions, (page curl is my favorite.)
* Single cable PoE+ dock connection (special power injector included with dock.)
* Matt black or white fingerprint resistant finish.
I can't tell you much about a new rev. TPD4 until I see it.
Why does the website only list these as "Gloss Black or Gloss White"? I have much more faith in you than I do the website and can you confirm the 90 days to ship is still a reasonable expectation.
Every touchpanel should be compared to the IPad - 1024x768, long life battery and LIGHT weight... oh ya $500!
Keep in mind, I played with Mercury when I was younger and I think our walls were painted with Lead paint.
And what does JJames know, he has a first name for his last name. (who loves ya)
Keep in mind, I played with Mercury when I was younger and I think our walls were painted with Lead paint.
Finally the truth comes out! I always wondered what made you the way you are . . . I mean seriously - being in the 80's music scene by choice is well . . . a result of lead paint? Haha!
Okay, okay - thread drifting - sorry!
I do agree though - the iPad is pretty slick (at least in regards to what I've seen.)
Tell that to the hundreds-of-thousands (millions probably?) of adults that played with mercury as a kid , used it to clean up their coins, and rolled it around in their hands all the time . . . wanna talk to my dad? He's still here and kickin' just fine.
Can you say "compact fluorescent lightbulbs?"
Anyway, I can only say that I disagree on many levels. Let's discuss over a drink next time you visit the Lake.
After two years of chelation therapy (and counting) to remove toxic metals from my system, including mercury, I would have to agree with the original post. There are no safe amounts, and no safe exposure level. And being without symptoms doesn't mean unaffected. Just sayin'.
But getting back on topic, you can get the same functionality from a small bearing in an enclosed box with four posts around it. It would always be contacting only two of those posts at any given time, and which two would determine your orientation. I'm pretty sure that is the industry standard these days anyway. The R4 uses something similar as a vibration sensor to wake it up.
I've got a 9000 in my conference room right now, and I have to say, it's something of a beast. If I had one at home, it would stay in its dock ... it's just a little bit too big and heavy for comfortable lap use or for carrying in hand while making a presentation, etc. I think for resi use, a 5200 is a better fit. Even parking it on the coffee table might distract from your TV .
The swiping features are a bit quirky. I've noticed I have to find a blank spot of screen to swipe or you wind up pushing buttons instead. If said buttons have a page flip on them, all the worse. Gestures are implemented exactly like hardware buttons, so I don't see a way around this expect in firmware ... they need to not generate button events if any motion is detected.
Other than those items, I like the panel overall. It's got a very crisp and responsive display, and lots of real estate. I'm sure I'll have more to say when I've gotten a chance to play around with it a bit more.
Comments
Like I said, wait until you see one.
I understand the difference with external button...just no more aspect ratio conversions.
The transitions are via the touch surface...I was able to move the page curl back and forth while maintaining my finger on the overlay.
More like a new generation of the same model that is faster, more efficient, and has new features.
They told us 90 days.
Verified on the screen, not on the navi pad.
Thanks.
P.S. Sorry about the Chubbies Brian and I’ll be really sorry if they get swept (or swiped) tonight...tee hee.
That’s a nice feature.
Does the TP have 2 IPs, one for the wireless and one for the wired adapter or do both adapters share the same IP?
Does the TP generate and offline/online event when switching adapters or is there a seamless transition?
Is there any notification to let us know which connection is current?
Thanks again.
I'm not seeing the sexiness of it going to a wired connection when docked. Can someone tickle my imagination a little? The only thing I can think of is that if the WAPs go down it'll still work.
So very confused....
No need for wireless if permanently docked.
Fallback if wireless is dead.
Higher throughput for video and the like when docked.
I don't know about AMX's implementation, but with Ethernet as it is and the competiton as an example, the panel will have two IPs.
Re: online/offline events, this is a good question.
Also if you have a panel that is designed to roam and if we get notification when the wired connection is established (I don’t know if that actually happens or not), we could then automatically revert the panel back for control of the room that it’s docked in.
Now this I understand and would agree it's cool then.
I just see a wireless panel being used as a wireless device, not as a wired device. How often do you talk on your phone when it's plugged into the wall? I do only when the battery is low. To me, a wireless panel is meant to sit on your lap, or wherever is most comfortable, not leaning over to an end table or to a coffee table to press pause. I guess I see no real advantage to be honest . . . sort of like those auto-dimming rear-view mirrors. You mean I paid how much extra for that?!
But re: video, the competition has a panel that has video when docked, but none when wireless. I don't really understand it but we sold tons of them and even did this video setup in a few cases.
As far as docking, we've used 8400's that were almost always walldocked, but needed the option to come out of the wall at rare times. Having wired ethernet allows more certainty of connection, and thus I can see this as a worthwhile item to have.
As long as wire is run to the dock, that is...
Just because the panel is marketed as a wireless device doesn't mean it needs to be primarily wireless. My notebook is "wireless" in that it has a battery, but I'm plugged in most of the time. Why? Because I'm in the same place most of the time. Look at people who primarily use docks with their notebooks, but want the rare carry capability. This is where I see a wired connection coming in handy.
Personally (as I've ranted about before) I'd love to see some form of localization (physical position and direction) as well as movement sensing (gyro's, tilt switches etc) in the panels. That would let us do some sexy things the competition can't.
Not sure, but I love it.
Choice is good.
In Chicago for example, many people own a boat and it never leaves the dock. Think of it as a vacation home on water.
This is often true in the corporate boardroom where 95% of the time it is in the dock. JJ, since you guys only do resi systems, you are just missing a point of reference.
Not having a wired/wireless connection was often a deal breaker in congested metro areas, especially since the other guys introduced a wired/wireless option. Of course their wired/wireless panel is not Ethernet out of its dock which gives us a big advantage in speed and features. They can't do M-JPEG streaming and web based activities while portable. For us, there is no difference in functionality in either mode.
I forgot to mention we still have integrated VoIP which will work even better. And the M-JPEG is good for 25 frames/second in either mode.
That's just INSANE!! Maybe because the gas is too darn expensive to take it out!
Ok, now you're talking. In all of the jobs I have done, I cannot recall an in-wall wireless panel as we've always have gone with a table docking station. Now, our company does have a client that has a couple of in-wall 5200s, not sure if they ever get taken out, but I'd imagine they do.
Regardless, I'm still not seeing a huge advantage (in resi and in our applications) to go wired with a wireless device. I dunno . . . "old dog"-"new trick"-complex?
Mercury is bad, even in the slightest. (please read without sarcasm)
I am immensely bothered by the "it is only a little bit, it won't hurt you" attitude.
A "little bit" of something harmful, mass produced then later tossed in the trash (ie into the ground) = a huge problem. I applaud companies that adhere to environmentally sound practices, not just during production, but also taking into consideration what happens after the "life" of the product.
Can you say "compact fluorescent lightbulbs?"
Anyway, I can only say that I disagree on many levels. Let's discuss over a drink next time you visit the Lake.
Agreed.
How about Venus and Mars...I believe that was a Paul McCartney album.
I hate to be contrary, but since I am personally looking at a year or more of expensive, not-covered-by-insurance treatments to remove mercury (and lead) from my system, I'd have to say don't make light of it. It's true that your body can deal with small amounts of mercury, but very small ones ... and any other factor involved can ramp it up to a burden that your body cannot deal with. In my case, it was the lead (bad habits with soldering, I'd hold it in my mouth when I needed an extra hand). Mercury binds to lead, so it accumulated until I was literally exhausted all the time. I'm not talking sleepy here, but head-spinning, beaten-with-a-club exhausted. It wasn't enough to be called overt mercury poisoning, which would have been easier to find and deal with, but quite enough to really mess me up badly. It took five years of testing to even get to the point where I suspected heavy metals, and even that was a hunch. And it took well over a decade to get to the point where I felt it. So now, though I am not-quite-fifty, I have about the personal energy of a 80-year-old. Actually, I know some octogenarians who feel better than I do most of the time. And I have to tell you, it's nothing less that brutal to have to force yourself to be productive every day when you feel like that, and it's not like I have a choice. There are bills to pay, after all.
Oh, and to get this back on topic, the R4's use a tiny ball bearing in a box to detect movement. I'm sure that is the standard.
There is an option that does all of that from the other guys too.
Why does the website only list these as "Gloss Black or Gloss White"? I have much more faith in you than I do the website and can you confirm the 90 days to ship is still a reasonable expectation.
Keep in mind, I played with Mercury when I was younger and I think our walls were painted with Lead paint.
And what does JJames know, he has a first name for his last name. (who loves ya)
Okay, okay - thread drifting - sorry!
I do agree though - the iPad is pretty slick (at least in regards to what I've seen.)
After two years of chelation therapy (and counting) to remove toxic metals from my system, including mercury, I would have to agree with the original post. There are no safe amounts, and no safe exposure level. And being without symptoms doesn't mean unaffected. Just sayin'.
But getting back on topic, you can get the same functionality from a small bearing in an enclosed box with four posts around it. It would always be contacting only two of those posts at any given time, and which two would determine your orientation. I'm pretty sure that is the industry standard these days anyway. The R4 uses something similar as a vibration sensor to wake it up.
The swiping features are a bit quirky. I've noticed I have to find a blank spot of screen to swipe or you wind up pushing buttons instead. If said buttons have a page flip on them, all the worse. Gestures are implemented exactly like hardware buttons, so I don't see a way around this expect in firmware ... they need to not generate button events if any motion is detected.
Other than those items, I like the panel overall. It's got a very crisp and responsive display, and lots of real estate. I'm sure I'll have more to say when I've gotten a chance to play around with it a bit more.