MVP-9000i

PhreaKPhreaK Senior MemberPosts: 966
So, for those of us not at InfoComm anyone care to shed some light?

Switching to a capacitive touch screen is definitely going to make a few things nicer - could this be the start of a transition towards multitouch support? The dock looks sexy with its PoE and wired network support, and the increased display bit depth in another plus - pitty about the res though.

From the press release it looks as though the 'gesture support' is basically the ability to trigger page flips based on a linear u/d/l/r swipe. Can any one confirm, or better, deny?

Also, what the display/touch surface like - are we talking glass or plastic?

*awaits answers eagerly*
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Comments

  • shr00m-dewshr00m-dew Junior Member Posts: 394
    I read it as the navigation cursor on the right side is capacitive touch, not the screen itself.

    Kevin D.
  • PhreaKPhreaK Senior Member Posts: 966
    I stand corrected. Again, I should learn not to post before consuming coffee #1.
  • a_riot42a_riot42 AMX Wizard Posts: 1,619
    PhreaK wrote: »
    Switching to a capacitive touch screen is definitely going to make a few things nicer - could this be the start of a transition towards multitouch support? The dock looks sexy with its PoE and wired network support, and the increased display bit depth in another plus - pitty about the res though.

    I hope its not a capacitive display. I don't know why anyone would prefer one. You can do multi-touch with resistive screens, and that is what I would like to see happen with the AMX panels.
    Paul
  • yuriyuri Junior Member Posts: 861
    Why don't they upgrade the resolution? 800x480 is old, I would like to see 1280x720 panels :)

    One thing I noticed is something I asked for a long time ago:
    - Automatically switches between Ethernet connectivity when docked and Wi-Fi when out of dock

    Plus the landscape / portrait mode is pretty nice :)
  • PhreaKPhreaK Senior Member Posts: 966
    a_riot42 wrote: »
    I hope its not a capacitive display. I don't know why anyone would prefer one.

    I don't see what's not to like. You get better better response times, increased durability, no calibration drift, extended mean time before failure, simpler multitouch support and a much nicer ('feel' wise) surface for interaction. Personally after using capacitive interfaces I find it extremely hard going back to resistive. Just my $0.02.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 3709 Posts Posts: 4,157
    I am glad to have a swipeable interface. That's one of the things that will make my life easier. I currently have to make a kind of 'swipe' menu but it's pretty janky. This will allow me to do the kinds of interfaces our designers want in a way that most people are already used to in their iPhones and Blackberrys. (is the plural of Blackberry Blackberries? it is a proper noun after all...)

    I'm curious about the 'A' wireless. While I think this is a great idea in general, the availability of 'A' is fairly limited. While 'N' has its issues, at least its a little more broadly available. I don't like how N comes down in the 2.4 Gig range when things aren't going so well. While this is usually fixable when you setup the wireless network, we still have those clients with no-it-somes who come along with the Linksys N routers and install them to get an X-Box going without letting us know and raining havoc down from the heavens.

    I had an A wireless in my house for a while and loved it. However, nobody made an A card for a while without haveing to dig around to find one.
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    My issue with capacitive screens is you can't use a stylus. I have trouble hitting single buttons with a fingertip unless they are huge, and the drift to smaller panels has made this unfeasible. I truly hate the prospect of needing to use three screens for what used to only require one just because I can't use my stylus.
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    PhreaK wrote: »
    Just my $0.02.

    Your $0.02 are worth less!

    But that doesn't mean I disagree with you, because I do. I really like capacitive touchscreens, and the plusses far outweigh the minuses if you ask me. The only thing that's not possible is the usage of a 'pen' but there are special pens for this purpose. (Though on a good touch-based interface you wouldn't need a pen).

    I'm curious about the wireless though, why no N support in the new panel?
    PhreaK wrote:
    pitty about the res though.

    Most likely to make it compatable with the other screens that are also 800x480.

    What I really hope though is that the price is less AND that the 5" will have the same update as this one!! And maybe even a 7" unit!
    DHawthorne wrote:
    My issue with capacitive screens is you can't use a stylus. I have trouble hitting single buttons with a fingertip unless they are huge, and the drift to smaller panels has made this unfeasible. I truly hate the prospect of needing to use three screens for what used to only require one just because I can't use my stylus.

    Right of the product page:
    - Integrated kickstand and stylus

    Man this is nearly arousing! :O
  • PhreaKPhreaK Senior Member Posts: 966
    Nerieru wrote: »
    Though on a good touch-based interface you wouldn't need a pen.

    You said it right there. If a stylus is required to use an touch interface and it doesn't come with one and a big note saying "use this" that is a software design flaw, not hardware.
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    PhreaK wrote: »
    You said it right there. If a stylus is required to use an touch interface and it doesn't come with one and a big note saying "use this" that is a software design flaw, not hardware.

    Basically anything that says "Use this" isn't good in the interface. Interfaces should be clear, easy to understand, easy to navigate, fast & smooth and very responsive.

    This is something we can should be able to achieve more easily with this new touchpanel!

    I understand it has a multi-core GPU to better support all the sexy transitions etc.

    Also I do hope that it switches from wifi to ethernet while keeping wifi active, so you don't have to wait if you take the panel out of it's docking!

    P.s. about the $0.02 thing, I mean the australian dollar, not you ;) (Though you probably got that)
  • ColzieColzie Senior Member Posts: 470
    PhreaK wrote: »
    From the press release it looks as though the 'gesture support' is basically the ability to trigger page flips based on a linear u/d/l/r swipe. Can any one confirm, or better, deny?

    Has anyone actually seen/used the new hardware? I too am very interested in the level of "gesture support" that we will have. I'm counting on it being more than the bargraph-hack they showed last year at InfoComm, but have yet to hear what reality brings.
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    Colzie wrote: »
    Has anyone actually seen/used the new hardware? I too am very interested in the level of "gesture support" that we will have. I'm counting on it being more than the bargraph-hack they showed last year at InfoComm, but have yet to hear what reality brings.

    I called the local rep about this, and they understand that it'll be ipad/iphone like. Like pages curling etc. It has multi-core GPU (or multiple GPU's, not 100% sure) to sport all this.
  • ColzieColzie Senior Member Posts: 470
    I'm not interested in the page flips per se, I am interested in the gesture support. When I put my finger on the screen and move it a little, what level of control will I have? Will I only be able to flip to a new page, or can I have a list if items move up and down directly under my finger?
  • Joe HebertJoe Hebert Junior Member Posts: 2,154
    Colzie wrote: »
    I'm not interested in the page flips per se, I am interested in the gesture support. When I put my finger on the screen and move it a little, what level of control will I have? Will I only be able to flip to a new page, or can I have a list if items move up and down directly under my finger?
    When I first read ‘with a simple swipe of the screen’ I assumed a swipe of the glass also but it’s not. I read further and the features lists a capacitive navigation pad. So nothing will be under your finger other than the pad.
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    Also, what's with the old-school POE injector?

    http://amx.com/products/PS-POE-AT.asp
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Junior Member Posts: 4,584
    PhreaK wrote: »
    You said it right there. If a stylus is required to use an touch interface and it doesn't come with one and a big note saying "use this" that is a software design flaw, not hardware.

    I disagree. I have never once had a customer complain about not being able to use a panel design. I am the one who has trouble because of broad fingertips. I can barely use most cellphone keypads ... I have to hit the buttons with the edge of my fingernail, and even thin it's iffy. The point of the matter is you cannot create a one-size-fits-all touch panel screen. And besides, you missed my point about needing to create extra pages because the buttons are too big. So don't diss the stylus out-of-hand. I learned long ago that you absolutely cannot thrive in the custom industry if you assume because something is not a problem for you that it will not be a problem for your customer. That said, I don't like being forces to put an iPod menu on two pages because you can't reliably press a single line with your finger. I'm sure I'm not alone ... and in the vast majority of cases, I would far rather use a stylus than have to flip pages.
  • ColzieColzie Senior Member Posts: 470
    Joe Hebert wrote: »
    When I first read ‘with a simple swipe of the screen’ I assumed a swipe of the glass also but it’s not. I read further and the features lists a capacitive navigation pad. So nothing will be under your finger other than the pad.

    Huh? The "swipe" is done on the navigation pad, not the screen? That isn't exactly like flipping pages in my book. I'm still waiting to hear from anyone that has actually used this in real life. Anyone from AMX care to comment?

  • mpullinmpullin Obvious Troll Account, Marked for Deletion Posts: 949
    The picture you just posted says "a swipe of the screen" in the caption :-|
    Colzie wrote:
    That isn't exactly like flipping pages in my book.
    Nice double entendre Chad :)
  • PhreaKPhreaK Senior Member Posts: 966
    This page curl and "just like turning the pages of a book" scares me. Every time an interface that has absolutely no relation to a book or physical artifact which users associate with a paper document (basically anything that isn't an e-book reader or document viewer) implements a 'page flip' with accompanying page curl animation a small puppy dies. Seriously, what is this obsession with trying to draw parallels to 'real world' experiences and interactions when the look, feel and purpose of the interface shares absolutely nothing in common with with the 'real' experience it's attempting to re-create.

    @Nerieru
    You're right. Maybe that should be changed to "If a stylus is required for the interface and the user doesn't already have one in there hand (ie tablet with handwriting recog.) which they would be forced to put down it's a software design flaw, not hardware."

    @DHawthorne
    I get what you're saying about no stylus = less accurate input = larger buttons = less real estate. And your comment about no one size fits all interface is absolutely right. However, we're not building ATM's here. Most of us are building systems for a very small and well defined user base. Every decrement in user base size results in almost an exponential increment in the system usability that can be achieved. On the flip side, yes there are those systems which may be designed for areas such as a public lobby or hotel suite which have a massively varying and continuously changing user base. In these situations you may have to design the interface to allow for users with varying degrees physical, mental and perceptual (color blindness etc) capability. If that is the case then yes, you may have side effect in areas such as visual aesthetic or, as you mentioned, usable screen real estate. If this is considered during the interaction design though there is absolutely no reason for that to be a problem.

    On a completely different note I finally read through all the info on the panel (well at least whats available now) and I've got to tip my hat to the hardware guys at AMX - nice work on the IPS and LED backlighting, definitely another step in the right direction.
  • AuserAuser Junior Member Posts: 506
    Colzie wrote: »
    Will I only be able to flip to a new page, or can I have a list if items move up and down directly under my finger?

    I'd be happy if we could have native lists with next/previous and next page/previous page buttons in all of the current generation panels.

    Gesture based control is next to useless in any environment where a broad and changing user base exists for the time being. That may change in time as everything is apple-ified, however for now a WYSIWYG set of buttons clearly indicating to the user their function is the only interface which I can see working in these environments.
  • yuriyuri Junior Member Posts: 861
    With all the new effects etc, does that mean we will get a new TPDesign? :D
  • TurnipTruckTurnipTruck Junior Member Posts: 1,485
    I was told that a TPD4 update is coming to accomodate the new panel and its capabilities.

    Existing panels cannot be upgraded by firmware as the gesture recognition requires a newer type of touch surface.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,898
    Existing panels cannot be upgraded by firmware as the gesture recognition requires a newer type of touch surface.
    This here scares me . . . so I sell a client 5200s and 9000s, now the client has two different touch overlays. That won't be annoying.
  • John NagyJohn Nagy CineTouch Product Manager Posts: 1,503
    jjames wrote: »
    This here scares me . . . so I sell a client 5200s and 9000s, now the client has two different touch overlays. That won't be annoying.
    Kind of no-win if you want new products with new features but not if the old hardware can't do it too.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,898
    John Nagy wrote: »
    Kind of no-win if you want new products with new features but not if the old hardware can't do it too.

    Right. While I understand moving forward that new hardware will inevitably have newer features that older ones won't, but having panels that are similar in style yet not in capability is not a plus in my opinion.

    I just wish AMX would get rid of the Modero line completely and start fresh. I've been doing this for six years and it seems very little has changed during that time. I was expecting something a bit more promising / exciting when I first heard the rumor of a new panel.

    Don't get me wrong, the 9000i looks nice and different . . . I guess I had higher expectations for one reason or another. How I'd love to sit in on the meetings of product development down in Dallas.
  • John NagyJohn Nagy CineTouch Product Manager Posts: 1,503
    jjames wrote: »
    How I'd love to sit in on the meetings of product development down in Dallas.
    Recently I suspect it's a bit like a family meeting where the kids want to go to Disneyland for a week this summer and the parents are trying to figure how to keep the house.
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    PhreaK wrote: »
    @Nerieru
    You're right. Maybe that should be changed to "If a stylus is required for the interface and the user doesn't already have one in there hand (ie tablet with handwriting recog.) which they would be forced to put down it's a software design flaw, not hardware."

    This was also directed at DHawthorne I reckon?
    PhreaK wrote: »
    @DHawthorne
    I get what you're saying about no stylus = less accurate input = larger buttons = less real estate. And your comment about no one size fits all interface is absolutely right. However, we're not building ATM's here. Most of us are building systems for a very small and well defined user base. Every decrement in user base size results in almost an exponential increment in the system usability that can be achieved. On the flip side, yes there are those systems which may be designed for areas such as a public lobby or hotel suite which have a massively varying and continuously changing user base. In these situations you may have to design the interface to allow for users with varying degrees physical, mental and perceptual (color blindness etc) capability. If that is the case then yes, you may have side effect in areas such as visual aesthetic or, as you mentioned, usable screen real estate. If this is considered during the interaction design though there is absolutely no reason for that to be a problem.

    no stylus = less accurate input = larger buttons = less real estate. Though true, it should not influence the interface if the interface was designed for finger-touch in the first place.

    A constantly changing user-base shouldn't influence the interface either, when it's designed for it. An interface for a constantly changing user-base should be designed to be very easy to understand and use, that means not many buttons. And easy navigation for the main user-base, and advanced options for those who need to operate the system on multiple levels.
    PhreaK wrote: »
    On a completely different note I finally read through all the info on the panel (well at least whats available now) and I've got to tip my hat to the hardware guys at AMX - nice work on the IPS and LED backlighting, definitely another step in the right direction.

    Yes definitely in the right direction. Unfortunately not quite there yet considering it's 2010 and not 2007. However if these changes get put in the 5x00 series as well then it will be 2009 :).

    Too bad about the sweeping being on the nav-pad and not on the actual screen, this still means scrollbars for lists :(

    I'm gonna try to go to the infocomm next year as well if we can set up a meeting between programmers :).

    Anyway kudos AMX for going in the right direction.

    I'm also hoping for an update on masters. x200 series anyone? (with all the latest firmware updates the start-up times are getting ridiculous, even with the non-duet firmware.)
  • Back from InfoComm 2010

    All, you are going to need to trust me on this...the MVP-9000i is a nice leap forward in the progression of wireless touch panels for control system integration. Try not to throw stones until you actually see and play with one. And this is not designed to be a disposable consumer product.

    My favorite new features:

    * Integrated kickstand that works with the table and wall dock similar to the MVP-5200.
    * Wired Ethernet when docked.
    * 9" 800x480 16x9 panel format compatible with 5", 7" & 10" panels (no more different panel files.)
    * 802.11A option for use in congested Wi-Fi environments.
    * Cool set of built-in page transitions, (page curl is my favorite.)
    * Single cable PoE+ dock connection (special power injector included with dock.)
    * Matt black or white fingerprint resistant finish.

    I can't tell you much about a new rev. TPD4 until I see it.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,348
    B_Clements wrote: »
    All, you are going to need to trust me on this...the MVP-9000i is a nice leap forward in the progression of wireless touch panels for control system integration. Try not to throw stones until you actually see and play with one. And this is not designed to be a disposable consumer product.

    My favorite new features:

    * Integrated kickstand that works with the table and wall dock similar to the MVP-5200.
    * Wired Ethernet when docked.
    * 9" 800x480 16x9 panel format compatible with 5", 7" & 10" panels (no more different panel files.)
    * 802.11A option for use in congested Wi-Fi environments.
    * Cool set of built-in page transitions, (page curl is my favorite.)
    * Single cable PoE+ dock connection (special power injector included with dock.)
    * Matt black or white fingerprint resistant finish.

    I can't tell you much about a new rev. TPD4 until I see it.

    I thought I read Glossy finish but if it's indeed a matte finish I'm happy. When is the estimated ship date? And can the ship date be relied upon?

    So the dock accepts the wired LAN connection and it's passed through the dock when docked to the TP. That would be very nice.

    Although I not a fan of 16x9 for TPs I'd rather have them all the same aspect than the mixed bag we currently have to deal with.
  • jjamesjjames AMX Sustaining Engineer Posts: 2,898
    B_Clements wrote: »
    My favorite new features:

    * Integrated kickstand that works with the table and wall dock similar to the MVP-5200.
    * Wired Ethernet when docked.
    * 9" 800x480 16x9 panel format compatible with 5", 7" & 10" panels (no more different panel files.)
    * 802.11A option for use in congested Wi-Fi environments.
    * Cool set of built-in page transitions, (page curl is my favorite.)
    * Single cable PoE+ dock connection (special power injector included with dock.)
    * Matt black or white fingerprint resistant finish.
    Brian, going to have to disagree with you on a few things - although I will admit I haven't seen it.

    The new 16x9 does not mean "no more different panel files." The 5,7, and 10" panels do not have an external navigation pad, which *potentially* will take up real estate; there's no need for a cursor on the panel's page if there's one built, IMHO it'd be a waste of space.

    If the page transitions are true that they're done on the nav-pad and not the screen . . . meh. :D

    Otherwise, yes, I would have to agree that the other things you mentioned are cool, but hardly a jump from Cadillac to Rolls Royce. I see a lot of the new features to be new "standard options" when buying a new car, i.e. automatic windows. The 802.11a will be helpful for us as a lot of our clients are in a WiMAX type of environment and recently we've been having issues with signal quality. A good direction for sure to be headed in and it is promising that they actually did put some thought into this and just didn't redesign the bezel and call it a "new" panel or flip it sideways and say it's a "new panel."; this *actually is* a new panel. So kudos to them.

    By the way, does anyone have any shipping dates? It looks like some of the other products (the power controller), will be release later this year. Are they changing their tune (again) with the "90 day" release date "promise."?
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