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Apple Tablet raising the bar?

Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated ProgrammerPosts: 1,917
I was just reading a couple of the rumors about the possible tablet being released this week and one thing struck me as a game changer for control panels. There is a rumor that the new tablet will include facial recognition of the user. Imagine an AMX touch panel that knows who is using it without the user having to do anything more than pick it up! When an unknown user picks it up, it could switch to super simple mode. When an IT tech pick it up, diagnostic screens could appear along with advance systems controls. When the home owner picks it up, their favorites are automatically displayed. When a kid uses the touch panel, certain rooms could be off limits and access to specific sources could be limited.

It is also a scary proposition for those that fear big brother, but just because I am paranoid, doesn't mean that I'm not being followed ;) .

Jeff
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Comments

  • mpullinmpullin Obvious Troll Account, Marked for Deletion Posts: 949
    Spire_Jeff wrote: »
    I was just reading a couple of the rumors about the possible tablet being released this week and one thing struck me as a game changer for control panels. There is a rumor that the new tablet will include facial recognition of the user
    Can it distinguish between the same user making different faces? I want to design an interface based on faces. :):(;):p:D:confused: :cool: :mad:

    If our baby can do it why can't our tablet?
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    A thumb print reader to turn on to user pages/preferences would be cool and if the scan doesn't match turn on to a generic homepage but the cameras on every TP in interior spaces connected to the world is a bit scary. Forget about big bro what about us? Maybe they use an infra red thermal image for id purposes but most likely this is also intended for live video chats.

    Maybe AMX can develope an aura scan then it could also determine your mood. :)
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    I'm not sure about the different faces, but you could use the accelerometer to pick up on a frustrated user shaking the panel vigorously :)

    Just thought of another cool (but almost completely useless) thing you could do with face recognition. For those clients that have secret doors that have magnetic locks and require them to be opened from the panel (we have a couple of these), you could display a fake image of a retinal scan and also require a push and hold of a button labeled "Place Thumb Here For Heartbeat and Thumbprint ID". The button would initiate an animation sequence that shows a heartbeat and starts a red laser line across the screen :)

    Jeff
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    mpullin wrote: »
    Can it distinguish between the same user making different faces? I want to design an interface based on faces. :):(;):p:D:confused: :cool: :mad:

    If our baby can do it why can't our tablet?

    Good things aint cheap. Cheap things aint good.

    TP cost $5K

    Kid cost $150K (assuming college)
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    ericmedley wrote:
    Kid cost $150K (assuming college)
    From the cost of raising a kid calculator for a kid born in 2000 in the North East with a family income over $64k/yr:

    "Here's what you're likely to spend to raise a child:
    $348,418 (w/ 4 years at a publics college approx. $13k/yr)

    Here's what you're likely to spend to raise a child:
    $418,702 (w/ 4 years at a private college approx. $31k/yr)

    Of course now a days when the kid graduates from college he won't be able to get a job that will afford him is own place right away so figure your gonna support them another couple of years.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    ericmedley wrote:
    Very sleek and a nice size. This is the first pic I've seen of this thing and I think this is going to make selling resi much more difficult. Unfortunately if AMX made an app for this the way an app should be made they could forget about selling portable TPs unless they come up with something similar and I don't believe they can for the price point and least not something that can do what this can or should be able to do.

    If this had an awesome AMX app it would be able to do everything a customer wants, browse, control the home, make calls, video calls and on and on.....

    We might have to go back to controlling just the basic audio system. The tablet could view the cameras, do weather, control the heating via web type interfaces (AprilAre, Tekmar, etc), Lutron already has a free app plus a web interface. I really hope AMX has something up their sleeve cuz it looks like a hard road ahead.

    I assume this will play w/ Savant too just to add insult to injury. Kraptron will porbably adapt to it quicky and make it seemless to their system despite the loss of TP sales since the writing is on the wall for those that can read and learn to adapt.

    Hmmm.. The next year or two should be interesting.
  • KennyKenny Junior Member Posts: 209
    Did anyone continue reading that article on Wired?
    I found this on another page on wired.
    http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/lexicon-bd-30-blu-ray-oppo-clone/oppo-inside-lexicon-outside-1
    While I know Lexicon is over priced, this is horrible.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
    vining wrote: »
    I assume this will play w/ Savant too just to add insult to injury. Kraptron will porbably adapt to it quicky and make it seemless to their system despite the loss of TP sales since the writing is on the wall for those that can read and learn to adapt.

    Hmmm.. The next year or two should be interesting.

    The concept of the Savant system is that you load their software (Blueprint) onto any Mac and that Mac can be a UI and/or a controller. From then on it's a matter of getting video to the user. A tablet computer obviously gets this done in spades.

    One of Savant's main problems is touch panels. They already have a swipable version out but it's tethered. (non-wireless) And whilie most the AV world is moving towards smaller, wireless panels, they seem to be headed in the other direction. (bigger and wired) They admit that they sell way more iTouch interfaces than touch panels. Thier systems tend to be one or two in walls to do whole house and lots of iTouches/keypads.

    Although they have no 'in' at apple to know stuff any quicker than we, the unwashed masses have, they will have no trouble making this into a touch screen. It will be a simple matter of loading the software. I would expect to see this available from them within months.

    Here again, Savant is allowing Apple to do the heavy lifting and leveraging like crazy. (something I've critisized repeatedly) But, it will give them an imensely cool wireless touch panel solution and it will likely be out very soon.

    I still marvel at how AMX is avoiding this and still messing around with jankey web-based soulutions that are clunky and don't work half the time. A small, simple App that is easy to manage/upgrade and is completely proprietory would do so well in my opinion. The commincation protocol is already done and is simple, svelt and puts almost no strain on the network. Why not utilize this with a kick-butt PC/Mac and let it do all the heavy lifting?
  • DHawthorneDHawthorne Old Timer Posts: 4,584
    The ideal situation would be enabling TPD to generate an interface that can be ported, either by TPD itself, or a third application, to an app. A single app isn't really going to cut it, unless they take the AMX.home approach, and include everything, including the kitchen sink, and just have the code activate what's needed. But I think that might be overly bloated for a portable device.

    If AMX isn't going to step up to the plate, maybe someone else should. It would require being able to reverse-engineer a TPD file,then convert it. I agree it would cut into panel sales, but I also think they are going to loose those sales anyway. It would be best if it were AMX.
  • iainshawiainshaw Junior Member Posts: 133
    Hope

    We can always hope that AMX aren't ignoring the market dynamic even if the response to date has been rather undercooked. I'm hoping that ISE in Europe will bring us something more compelling than a TP rotated through 90 degrees.
  • Jimweir192Jimweir192 Junior Member Posts: 502
    DHawthorne wrote: »
    If AMX isn't going to step up to the plate, maybe someone else should. It would require being able to reverse-engineer a TPD file,then convert it.

    Thats exactly what the other thread was all about

    http://www.amxforums.com/showthread.php?t=6537

    TPControl seems to have dropped of the planet (time will tell how that works out)

    So that leaves iRidium - it works well, priced well ($160), seems pretty stable from the testing I've done, they respond well to issues and fix them promptly, can be ported to iPhone or WinXP. The main downsides are that you have to use your own graphics as it will not convert any system graphics across and that font support is a little restricted - but that could be an apple thing.

    I'm working on a system for a client right now - 2 bed flat with an NI700; runs all the lighting, a couple of TV's and a Bose Lifestyle system. Works great and doesn't cost the earth.
  • ericmedleyericmedley Senior Member - 4000+ posts Posts: 4,177
  • Spire_JeffSpire_Jeff Formerly Caffeinated Programmer Posts: 1,917
    iPad available as low as $499.00 for 16gb. Most expensive version is $829.00.

    Now I have a real desire to develop my own iPad app or give some of the others a try.

    Not as impressive as some of the rumors, but it is only the first version of software... who knows what else might be activated in the coming months.

    Jeff
  • ColzieColzie Senior Member Posts: 470
  • a_riot42a_riot42 AMX Wizard Posts: 1,619
    Colzie wrote: »

    Wow indeed. I'm impressed. Far better and bigger screen than an 8400 for far less money. This is going to stir things up.
    Paul
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    a_riot42 wrote: »
    Wow indeed. I'm impressed. Far better and bigger screen than an 8400 for far less money. This is going to stir things up.
    Paul

    I actually hope it does, this industry could use some stirring up. How am I gonna explain to my clients that this things is bigger, looks better yet costs waaaaaay less than an 5200i/8400i. (Apart from it doing MUCH more)
  • iainshawiainshaw Junior Member Posts: 133
    Nerieru wrote: »
    I actually hope it does, this industry could use some stirring up. How am I gonna explain to my clients that this things is bigger, looks better yet costs waaaaaay less than an 5200i/8400i. (Apart from it doing MUCH more)

    You really have to hope the guys at AMX might have thought about that already. It's a bigger iPhone with a really nice productivity suite on it. It's at the lower end of expectations of what it might have been and it's one of the most pre-touted devices ever. If AMX don't have a position on it - whether that's oppose it or embrace it - then I really will despair.

    Releasing some sub-standard flim flam that sort of works with it in a web browsery way, kinda, does not represent a position.
  • Joe HebertJoe Hebert Junior Member Posts: 2,159
    Colzie wrote: »
    Holy crap, Batman! That?s freakin? amazing at one heck of a price. I don?t think Apple as raised the bar. The bar has been tossed out the window and the sky is the limit.

    Pretty please with sugar on top, can we use an iPhone or iPad with an AMX system? Can you imagine the systems we can put together if both of these technologies are combined? Wow indeed.
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    iainshaw wrote: »
    You really have to hope the guys at AMX might have thought about that already. It's a bigger iPhone with a really nice productivity suite on it. It's at the lower end of expectations of what it might have been and it's one of the most pre-touted devices ever. If AMX don't have a position on it - whether that's oppose it or embrace it - then I really will despair.

    Releasing some sub-standard flim flam that sort of works with it in a web browsery way, kinda, does not represent a position.

    Yeah I do, if you look at ctrons pre-response (the v-panel) they're still lacking behind. I do hope this is different for AMX.

    I know I'm getting an ADC membership just to see how easy it is to develop for this, and see the limitations.
  • HARMAN_icraigieHARMAN_icraigie Technical Trainer II, Harman Professional University Posts: 576
    4:3 aspect ratio (1024x768), no multi-tasking, no camera... nope, no bar raised here.
  • iainshawiainshaw Junior Member Posts: 133
    Raised the bar enough
    Nerieru wrote: »
    Yeah I do, if you look at ctrons pre-response (the v-panel) they're still lacking behind. I do hope this is different for AMX.

    I know I'm getting an ADC membership just to see how easy it is to develop for this, and see the limitations.

    Good luck, I don't think developing for it will be the issue

    My point was that this is hardly a surprise. Apple have sold in excess of 21m iPhones and if we believe the figures given out today they've shipped 75m iPhone / iPod Touch combined. The momentum behind this player is pretty hard to ignore.

    There's not much that surprising in the announcement today is there? It runs apps, it's got 3G & n, it's got a nice e-reader. I thought the two most surprising things were the quality of iWorks (at least on the surface) and the pricing. It doesn't multi-task, it doesn't have cameras, it's not a phone. In summary it looks really nice but it's not got anything that anyone following this for months is going to be shocked by and it's missing a load of stuff that people thought would make it the Jesus Tablet (apologies - it's a term that's been used a lot)

    So, given that it's been sitting on the horizon for a long time and given that it's pitched up pretty well as it might have been expected to be, does AMX have a coherent response to it? Customers and prospective customers are always asking me about an AMX app for the iPhone. I can see a point in time very soon when those people will be asking if AMX can run on the iPhone/iPad platform. It's almost the same question but there is a significant shift in emphasis.

    I don't envy AMX their market conundrum. Do you support the thing that might kill you, do you try and shift your business model to cope with changing circumstances or do you totally ignore the whole thing and hope it goes away...?

    I see AMX withdrawing from the residential market. The commercial, hospitality and other vertical markets must look a whole load more inviting. Sonos, C4 and Apple continue to attack the residential market from below. Savant seems hellbent on attacking it on a level playing field. The residential market has changed a lot since the Modero panels were the new kids on the block and maybe AMX management thinks it more appropriate to maximise profit from a declining market position. Bullseye certainly looks to be an initiative consistent with that position. I might be wrong but I think one of the best guides to a company's strategy is to look at what it does rather than what it says.
  • viningvining X Member Posts: 4,368
    iainshaw wrote:
    I see AMX withdrawing from the residential market. The commercial, hospitality and other vertical markets must look a whole load more inviting. Sonos, C4 and Apple continue to attack the residential market from below. Savant seems hellbent on attacking it on a level playing field. The residential market has changed a lot since the Modero panels were the new kids on the block and maybe AMX management thinks it more appropriate to maximise profit from a declining market position. Bullseye certainly looks to be an initiative consistent with that position. I might be wrong but I think one of the best guides to a company's strategy is to look at what it does rather than what it says.
    That's kind of my gut instinct too even though they may not want to leave the resi market or admit there's been a course change. I think Bullseye was the 1st step to that end since it penalizes small companies that just do resi and our customer base is going to want more than AMX, at this point, appears willing to offer. Maybe the demo purchasing requirement is a way to get rid of inventory at cost. I know that's a cynical view but I guess I've lost that warm fuzzy feeling that I used to have. I'd really like it back! Of course they made some big investments in VA, AMX Home that I don't see useful on the commercial side so... Who knows?

    With a customizable app that works similar to what TPC was proposing we could easily maintain a resi footprint but w/ out it it will be difficult in the years to come. For the near future if we stick to the basic systems control and not try to compete with the flashy extras that a web tablet or Savant can offers then maybe customers won't notice we can't do what the others can. We'll probably need to stick with fixed wall TPs or the R4 since most resi customers will have a hard time understanding how portables that cost 4-5 times more and can't do the simple tasks that the iPhone or tablet can. Sure we can control equipment but so can a universal remote. We know the complexity behind it but they don't.
  • Joe HebertJoe Hebert Junior Member Posts: 2,159
    iainshaw wrote: »
    I see AMX withdrawing from the residential market.
    I admit that I?m totally biased and bleed AMX blue but I really don?t think that's the case. At least I don?t want to believe that. If anything I think AMX will hit resi even harder. It?s a huge market to tap into.
  • jjamesjjames Just another dude Posts: 2,904
    Joe Hebert wrote: »
    I admit that I?m totally biased and bleed AMX blue but I really don?t think that's the case. At least I don?t want to believe that. If anything I think AMX will hit resi even harder. It?s a huge market to tap into.

    Agreed.......
  • rynandorynando Junior Member Posts: 68
    I was hoping this would be a tablet PC . . . not a bigger iPod Touch. A lot of people are scratching their heads trying to understand this thing. It would have been much better if it was running a tablet version of OSX.

    From a developer's perspective dealing with Apple and their App Store can be a nightmare . . . there're lots of strings attached when it comes to developing for that platform (no Amazon Web Services, no Flash/Silverlight, app's declined for no real reason, etc). Apple could decide one day that it doesn't like AMX and bounce any application that tries to comunicate with AMX devices.

    R
  • ipssheldonipssheldon Registered User Posts: 106
    iPad as an empowering tool?

    I've read all of the posts and told myself to not get into this discussion, but I feel that I have to post a counter argument. As a former independent programmer who has chosen a slightly different industry, while still using AMX front and center, I disagree with many of the posts on this and some of the related threads.

    If I were still in the resi business and providing advanced systems to clients (through dealers that I support), I would absolutely jump on the iPad and create a cool app that enhances everything that AMX does. From everything that I have read or heard about Apple's SDK is that it isn't some new piece of magic or software language. If you are a successful programmer writing advanced AMX solutions, you can probably handle Apple's SDK, from what I understand. I plan to find out soon myself.

    If you believe that the Netlinx processor and its ability to integrate disjointed systems in a home or anywhere, then the iPad only makes those systems better. And as resi dealers or solution providers, this should make your life even better and your business argument stronger to tell the home owners that resi dealers sell to that you have a solution that is unmatched, using the iPad front and center with your Netlinx systems.

    And yes, that still includes AMX touch panels in those locations that make sense. Such as a small panel near the front door for controlling lights, HVAC, security, etc. just like you always have. Or a larger panel in the kitchen for whole house control that is always on, always connected without worrying about battery life or wireless interference or what have you.

    In the home theater, yes, the iPad has some advantages (imagine Boxee on the iPad to control a iMac or Apple TV) or even to simply to sit and use to read the morning paper, etc. But it could be your app running the iPad, not some no name foreign outfit that the home owner can't get support from or doesn't understand their unique system.

    Might AMX provide something that makes this easier, yes, perhaps. But why should that affect your business or your use of AMX throughout the house or even affect whether AMX continues to be successful in the resi market or not. It will still be the dealers who provide the successful applications with any product that will be successful. I have no doubt that AMX will do whatever they need to in order to be successful with or without the iPad.

    And as dealers or AMX partners, we need to provide the solutions that people want. AMX will do their part. We just need to continue to do ours. And that might well include the iPad, if you choose to use it in your solutions. If you can successfully compete without the iPad, then more power to you. If you learn to compete better with the iPad, then you have a new tool at your disposal. If that enables you to sell more systems, then AMX wins that way as well.

    Just my thoughts.

    Sheldon Samuels
  • Jimweir192Jimweir192 Junior Member Posts: 502
    ipssheldon wrote: »
    I've read all of the posts and told myself to not get into this discussion, but I feel that I have to post a counter argument....... If you learn to compete better with the iPad, then you have a new tool at your disposal. If that enables you to sell more systems, then AMX wins that way as well.

    My reading of the various threads on this was that the majority certainly want to compete with an iPhone / iPad device in the mix, very few are down on the idea in general. The view to me seems to be that this needs to be led from AMX as part of their offering. Yes I think most serious programmers here could write an app that works, but that is like saying we should all write the OS for a touchpanel once in our career.

    A native AMX app for the apple platform, programmed using the existing design tools, and offered at a realistic license cost. Is that too much to ask for?
  • Jorde_VJorde_V UX Scientist Posts: 393
    @guys above

    Are you even comparing it to the current "tablet's" we use for amx etc.? It can in essence do the same, so why is it that it's bigger, thinner and yet way cheaper?

    And we're not even putting the other things it can do into the equation.

    No it's not what it's hyped to be, but compare it to what we currently have. I know I am, and it pisses me off that I can't find a reason for AMX to lag behind on this.

    If I think that way, how the hell am I supposed to tell my client that the panels they are buying are better?

    I can not and will not tell my clients that, sorry I believe in honesty, if a client mentions this I will not deny that it is in fact better yet cheaper.

    The same goes for the bloody iPod touches and similar devices.

    So far all you guys have been saying that it isn't what it's hyped to be, and no it is no jesus tablet, however compared to what we use right now in this industry it is.

    So what can it be used for that other amx panels can't be used for?
    - email
    - internet
    - ebooks
    - photos
    - video
    - youtube
    - music
    - it has apps
    - google maps
    - notes
    - calendar
    - contacts
    - search in the panel

    what else does it sport?
    - multi-touch
    - IPS display
    - thin (0,5 inch)
    - light(1,5 pounds)
    - iWork suite (which looks nice, haven't touched it yet, so can't be sure)

    Another thing i'd like to note is that the bezel isn't sticking forward, which gives you even more screen real-estate.

    Luckily this is just a panel, there's no controller it's hooked up to or whatever, so that gives AMX(etc) room to breath and respond, I hope that it will be a quick and good reply.

    (try to look at this as panel vs panel, not as what it doesn't have, at least look at it as what it doesn't have that amx does.)

    I'm hoping for enough responses that can clarify a few things for me.

    I might sound a bit drastic etc, but that's because I see this can hurt our business a lot.

    Also I have the AMX euro boss here today, so I hope to get a response from him.
  • felixmoldovanfelixmoldovan Junior Member Posts: 197
    Nerieru wrote: »
    @guys above
    - email
    - internet
    - ebooks
    - photos
    - video
    - youtube
    - music
    - it has apps
    - google maps
    - notes
    - calendar
    - contacts
    - search in the panel

    what else does it sport?
    - multi-touch
    - IPS display
    - thin (0,5 inch)
    - light(1,5 pounds)
    - iWork suite (which looks nice, haven't touched it yet, so can't be sure)

    I guess it's a matter of perspective...
    http://i.gizmodo.com/5458382/8-things-that-suck-about-the-ipad
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