Crossover settings for Peavy QW series Speakers

fireryan

I'm back guys for the next chapter in my PA experience. First thanks for the previous help with gain structure setting, EQ tips (outdoor method, thanks Dra), and most noticeable crossover settings (thanks Kev)
I am purchasing some Peavy QW series Speakers ( two 15\" enclosure with a horn) The information is on the following link: http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/110631/QW(R)%204F.cfm
The program (Driveware GUI) you posted results from before Kev really helped. Hopefully these speakers can be applied to it as well. Look forward to the reply. Thanks as always!!!!!

LT

Gadget

Go to the Peavey site and look up the settings for their processor...I think it should be all there...

Gadget.. those QW's are nice!

Gadget

fireryan

Hey Gadget,
Thanks for the reply. I went to the Peavy website, downloaded the VSX software and honestly its lost me.

Here's the Gear I'm using:

Mackie 1604-VLZ3 (16 channel mixer)

dbx 266XL Compressor/Gate (vocals only)

Drive Rack PA

LOW/left output DRPA to Crown xti 4000 (Y setting for mono signal) powering a pair of B-52 LX-18 V2 18\" 1000W Folded Horn Subwoofer

L/R Hi outputs DRPA to Crown xti 4000 for Peavy QW 4

Questions are:
Crossover help, and should I be incorporating the mid outputs of DRPA with these new Speakers?

kpippen

Hi LT,

Try this if using the QW4s full range...



Try this if bi-amping the QW4s...



Cheers!

Kev

fireryan

I already have two 4000xti's for the hi's and lows. Would getting a third amp to \"bi-amp\" the Peavy's (QW4) be a \"major\" difference in sound quality? If so, once I get the $$$ what wattage will be necessary.
Kev.....thanks for the help!!

LT

kpippen

Hi LT,

Personally I have not bi-amped but I could imagine the benefits would be enormous... It would allow you much more control and flexibility over your mid and high frequencies... Maybe Gadget or Dra will chime in to list all of the advantages...

Kev

PS. The bi-amp crossover settings I suggested came from the Peavey VSX 26 processor binary file for the QW4...:D

Dra

I don't bi-amp either, but I hear that it's great. Maybe one day.

DRA

fireryan

Thanks guys..... I have heard from a few sound techys that its better however I needed to run it by the \"DBX BOYZ\" before buying into it. Looking at the illustration you sent me it does appear more acurate.
Well if I'll look into the option and hopefully Gadget can drop a note.
As always thanks, and I'll be posting the results.

LT

Gadget

Bi-amp is the ONLY way in my opinion... it's so much better you wouldn't BELIEVE it! The efficiency factor is far better, the control of the sound is way better.. it's ... well.. BETTER! all around...Well worth the effort, but a lot of work to set up properly, a process not to be taken lightly...
Gadget

Dra

There is an excellent article by Marty Mccann (sp) on the Peavey site that explains the benefits of bi-amping.

DRA

Gadget

Oh so now MY word isn't goo enough

Dra

Gadget, I've never considered your word to be \"goo\". Don't be so hard on yourself. 8)

Besides, You said, \"Do it.\" Marty says, \"Here's the science.\" Gadget and Marty, walking hand in hand. :oops: That does sound right.

DRA

kpippen

More cowbell!!!

Dra

That does sound right.

:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Should read, \"That doesn't sound right.\" :? :? :?

DRA

Gadget

Marty IS the MAN! He and his partner developed the CD horn technology @ EV.. but the backward looking idiots @ EV wanted to go forth with PROVEN technology... so they were welcomed @ Peavey soon after... I suspect he is the brains behind the Q wave horn and speakers...as well as the line array. I see they just came out with a twin 12\" Versaray...

All right so lets get something cleared up here...

1. I'm never wrong
2. I'm always right
3. In case of questions, see # 1 & 2...



You know I wish we had that little emoticon of the guy lying on his side pounding the floor laughing like yahoo MSN does...It would be perfect for Dra's posts wouldn't it...Kevin... make it so! chuckle...
Gadget

Gadget

fireryan, sorry were using your thread to screw around as usual... breaks up the monotony..

As for the Questions, I would Biamp the tops if it were me...Kevin are those setups using the Peavey presets from the Software?

That system should rock!

gadget

fireryan

I have a 4000xti Crown....I can use that to drive the woofers Peavy (QW4). I am planning to get a small amp for the tweeters, say the Xs500 Crown?
Is this the right idea for the Bi-amp application? I need to purchase it soon cause I have a gig Saturday and need to reestablish gain structure and EQ settings.

Gadget

Well, after much searching.. and I'm frankly PISSED OFF at Peavey... their site is always down, restricting access or under repair...Getting the info out of them is RIDICULOUS! Anyway I found the crossover information.. they cross the woofers to the Horn @ 1200 hz...I also found, on the Harmony Central website... Dboomer.. who I guess works for Peavey? Anyway he said:

oops ... my bad. I meant to say Driverack PA. You could probably get very close with a 260 ... if your checkbook allows paying double:D .

There is one extra band of PEQ in the VSX per output that the 260 does not have. The major differences between the Driverack PA and the VSX are the inclusion of Bessell function filters in the VSX and a lot more output EQ in the VSX.

Now as I look at the info it sounds like the PEQ's required for this operation are not available, also some phase variations exist...The Crossover info isn't available except to VSX processor owners as a download, so getting the speakers Bi amped would be a job even with the 260. I guess I'd stay running full range till I got a VSX or 260...It would make a huge difference, but sounds like you don't have the right tools...


Gadget

fireryan

Ggod thing I didn't run out to buy the amp. Cool, thanks for looking into that for me, and I'll be getting the 260 before I get the VSX :P
Thanks again and I'll be posting the new results later.

LT

Gadget

Geez, you know... with the XTI amps they have a bunch of processing on board.. I wonder if they have enough PEQ\"s... I'll have to check...I know the limiters are not sufficient though...I'll have to check the Phase thing... as well...Go with what you have for now and well see what we can do for you on the Bi-amp front... in the mean time I would like you to go onto the Peavey site and sign up on the FORUM there and see if you can get the VSX settings for the QW 4's that we can input into the 260... I would also see if maybe Dboomer @ Harmony Central forum can't help...Maybe even the PSW forum...I mean I can tune the things, but I would have to have them and I don't..

Gadget

fireryan

Okay well I'm setting up full range. I auto EQed already (outdoor), started with the Crossover settings Kev posted and gain structure. After getting it as flat as possible....I forgot to store it and you know the rest. Once a few hours went by I was back in the \"ballpark\" with all PEQ's used up as follows:
H PEQ 300hz 12.0db Q 5.71
1.25khz 9.0db Q 2.63
11.8khz 12.0 db Q 3

L PEQ 80hz -12db S3

These settings allowed less than +/- 6 db in all freqencies with the majority close to 0db.

I noticed my sub/lows amp setting is now almost @ 3 o clock, but the gain structure is secure with no chance of clipping.
I got the \"D\" precurve set as well as my 2nd option. I haven't messed with the time alignment, but thats the next step. Hopefully that wont throw off my \"baseline\" for the EQ.\" You guys told me to get that first, but I still need to read more about it to get it. I still have an old post to go back.

How does my EQ settings look?

P.S. Gadget I'll be looking into those forums THANKS

fireryan

CROSSOVER SETTINGS

Highs 125hz LR 24 0.0db
Lows 45.0hz BW 18 10db 125hz LR 24

Gadget

Drop the sub xover point to at least 118.0 hz possibly 114.6 to minimize xover interference...see which works best...What amplifier setting are you using?

Gadget

fireryan

I can drop the crossover point some, to your suggested setting. I see now what you mean about widening the \"GAP\". I'll have to auto EQ again for adjustments. As far as the amp setting it is set up as follows from previous posts (KEV)
Low crown xti 4000 set up with \"Y\" due to the 1 input from the DRPA's left/mono LOW with amps outputs (1 and 2) to a pair of 18\" folded B-52's.

Questions:
How did the EQ settings look Gadget? is that acceptable?

Phasing the speakers....how often do you find that commercially built speakers, Peavy, B-52 are setup incorrectly?

Timing alignment: With the crossover settings (after your adjustment) what frequency would you recommend for the sweeping delay technique?

Dra

H PEQ 300hz 12.0db Q 5.71
1.25khz 9.0db Q 2.63
11.8khz 12.0 db Q 3

L PEQ 80hz -12db S3

A 12 db adjustment (even the 9) seems severe. Those frequencies are well in the range of what should be +/- 3db out of the box. How does it sound?

DRA

fireryan

Well I forgot to flatten the EQ between each adjustment so I'm not sure if that made a huge difference. Those particular frequencies were the only ones pegged +/- 12db and after the filters were set....it looked a whole lot better.

The sound, well it seemed \"even.\" Like you said in a room to \"season to taste.' It was only one stack/outside.

I then set the D curve, but I put the exact same settings on the filters. After my top speakers seemed to be a bit louder than the lows. Not a good sound.

When choosing a \"C\" or \"D\" curve am I supposed to set the PEQ filters to get the humps out the same as the \"0\" Curve?

If so, then I need to start from \"scratch\" wit each Curve setting.

Dra

You don't have to flatten the GEQ after each pass. It just makes the auto EQ do less work and takes less time to finish.
The PEQ adjustments should, after the next auto-EQ pass, mimic whatever curve you are shooting for. When it does, flatten the GEQ for room adjustments and never (a real long time) touch your PEQ's.

Each curve will be a new program that you'll set-up. Each will have drastically different setting in the PEQ.
If you had that much trouble getting flat, chances are you will not have anywhere enough filters to fix cab response problems AND add the warm fuzzy or bright characteristics of the curves.

DRA

Gadget

How far away are you with the mic?... NEVER allow a +/-12 db eq 9 is even excessive.. I'd add a CD horn shelf first.. even if only 5-6 db boost with a slope of 6 db per octave centered on about 3.5khz... set the LOW EQ by ear...from 170 hz down..Use the sub amp volume control to \"pump up the low end jams\" then EQ to taste...using the Lo out PEQ's...

G

fireryan

The mic was 15ft away from the stack speakers pointed in the middle of the stack. Those particular ftrequencys's were maxed resulting in the +/- 12 filter bringing it down to +/- 4 db.

I'd add a CD horn shelf first.. even if only 5-6 db boost with a slope of 6 db per octave centered on about 3.5khz

So thats a Hshelf +5/6 db @ 3.5 hz with a Q of 6?
I shouldn't waste the filters out of the range of 160hz - 700hz since I'll be tuning those by ear?

fireryan

Man O Man. Finally the monster is alive. I did the EQ outdoor method without the subs, balanced the amps volume with a Bon Jovi CD, then reversed the phases on the tops, sweep for the Delay, and set the Gain Structure. Few hours later its a done deal.

EQing was much more acurate with the corrected mic position. No crazy frequencies @ +/- 12db. Filters were set no more than 5 db, and the end results +/- 3 db on the \"Dips and humps\" which were very limited. I only focused on the center frequencies as discussed.

My Crossover point is @ 100hz cause that was the closest tone I could fine to sweep with, and the delay was a bit tricky. I ended up using around 7 msec in the DRPA, and 10ms in my Crown XTI resulting in just under 18ms. The null was very difficult to hear cause I thought it would get a lot lower, however listening carefully I could hear a drop.
The system sounds awesome. The only thing I need a refresher in is the Kick drum frequency along with Bass Guitar,
Guitar, and Vocals I believe is (2.0 to 2.5)
Now I'll be checking on the System Architect and start messing with that.

Thanks Gadget, cause of your help I have restored the faith of my other band members in my sound skills (or lack thereof)

You da man! Get back to me with that info I PM'd you.

Gadget

OK, the Kick drum, if you only have a channel strip EQ with a sweepable mid... turn the GAIN control all the way down, turn the FREQUENCY knob all the way down as well... sweep it upward till the mid mud is best attenuated...You can adjust the GAIN as necessary as well...then use the LO shelf control to add THUD, and the HI shelving control to add klick...

On the guitar, 2 KHZ is lead sizzle, 400-600hz is meat

Vocals, 3.5k clarity...

Glad to hear the beast is alive!...I sent you the info yesterday...in your PM

Gadget