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M1 Apple Silicon and VST3 support

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  • yazanyazan Posts: 6

    We urge you to expedite the delivery of the Silicon-compatible version of the Lexicon PCM as soon as possible.
    Thank you for your efforts.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @yazan said:
    We urge you to expedite the delivery of the Silicon-compatible version of the Lexicon PCM as soon as possible.
    Thank you for your efforts.

    Definitely I am letting the developers know on a semi daily basis! I will push them as often as possible. As soon as I have news I will impart it

  • studiotonstudioton Posts: 13

    @HARMAN_EElde said:

    @yazan said:
    We urge you to expedite the delivery of the Silicon-compatible version of the Lexicon PCM as soon as possible.
    Thank you for your efforts.

    Definitely I am letting the developers know on a semi daily basis! I will push them as often as possible. As soon as I have news I will impart it

    you are our only hope and salvation here ;)

  • @HARMAN_EElde said:
    Silicon native versions of the plugins (AAX/AU/VST2/3) will be available in the next update

    Seeing AAX included in the next native update is a huge relief. :*

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @ilikemyrealname said:

    @HARMAN_EElde said:
    Silicon native versions of the plugins (AAX/AU/VST2/3) will be available in the next update

    Seeing AAX included in the next native update is a huge relief. :*

    Yes we will have the AAX in the update still

  • Eagerly looking forward to this. I bought the PCM Native Reverb bundle on a sale betting on Lexicon following though with an Apple Silicon native update. I believe you guys that it's coming, but as you can imagine there are many skeptics out there predicting that you won't even have a public beta before 2023 is over. I hope they are wrong about that. :)

  • nlhknnnlhknn Posts: 2

    I am on Mac Studio M1 Ultra, using Logic and MacOS Monterey. For some reason PCM Native Reverb Bundle does not even work in Rosetta mode for me. Logic just keeps crashing and I've updated everything I can including the latest Versions of PCM Native Reverb Bundle that are said to work in Rosetta mode...

  • jmsteele313jmsteele313 Posts: 22
    edited July 2023

    @nlhknn said:
    I am on Mac Studio M1 Ultra, using Logic and MacOS Monterey. For some reason PCM Native Reverb Bundle does not even work in Rosetta mode for me. Logic just keeps crashing and I've updated everything I can including the latest Versions of PCM Native Reverb Bundle that are said to work in Rosetta mode...

    I hate to be the guy to say it, because "working over here" type posts are not necessarily helpful but I just checked this out myself. I normally use Digital Performer with also uses Audio Units, but I do have the latest Logic Pro 10.7.8 and I just tested it and it's working here. See the attached screen capture of Random Hall. I'm on an M1 Max Mac Studio with 64GB RAM and 2TB internal SSD. One big difference is I'm on latest Ventura which is 13.4.1.

    I also went through all the rest of the reverb plugs in the bundle and passed audio through them and they worked fine. Maybe it's an OS version thing? Although, honestly, I'm not positive when i first bought this Mac Studio it had Monterey on it, and I think they worked then, too, but I could be wrong as I don't usually use Logic.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @jmsteele313 said:

    @nlhknn said:
    I am on Mac Studio M1 Ultra, using Logic and MacOS Monterey. For some reason PCM Native Reverb Bundle does not even work in Rosetta mode for me. Logic just keeps crashing and I've updated everything I can including the latest Versions of PCM Native Reverb Bundle that are said to work in Rosetta mode...

    I hate to be the guy to say it, because "working over here" type posts are not necessarily helpful but I just checked this out myself. I normally use Digital Performer with also uses Audio Units, but I do have the latest Logic Pro 10.7.8 and I just tested it and it's working here. See the attached screen capture of Random Hall. I'm on an M1 Max Mac Studio with 64GB RAM and 2TB internal SSD. One big difference is I'm on latest Ventura which is 13.4.1.

    I also went through all the rest of the reverb plugs in the bundle and passed audio through them and they worked fine. Maybe it's an OS version thing? Although, honestly, I'm not positive when i first bought this Mac Studio it had Monterey on it, and I think they worked then, too, but I could be wrong as I don't usually use Logic.

    Hey @jmsteele313 thanks for your input. Personally, I know that a vast number of customers are running the plugins just fine with Rosetta, M1/M2 Macs, latest OS and software. Sometimes a simple reinstall of iLok License Manager and the latest version of the plugin will do it, or forcing Logic to rescan the plugin cache.

    Other than the performance issues with Chamber, and some of the others reported, the plugins ARE working on latest Mac and Mac OS. We definitely will have further stability fixes and new features to make the plugins a better experience for everyone.

  • jmsteele313jmsteele313 Posts: 22
    edited July 2023

    @HARMAN_EElde said:> Hey @jmsteele313 thanks for your input. Personally, I know that a vast number of customers are running the plugins just fine with Rosetta, M1/M2 Macs, latest OS and software. Sometimes a simple reinstall of iLok License Manager and the latest version of the plugin will do it, or forcing Logic to rescan the plugin cache.

    Other than the performance issues with Chamber, and some of the others reported, the plugins ARE working on latest Mac and Mac OS. We definitely will have further stability fixes and new features to make the plugins a better experience for everyone.

    When I loaded certain plugins in the bundle, I did notice some took longer to load than others. On the ones that took longer I kind of held my breath in case there would be a crash, but they loaded.

    FYI, from a user perspective, stability fixes are fine, but what I really want... here halfway through 2023... is APPLE SILICON NATIVE VERSIONS. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I appreciate the effort you put in here. But you're put in an awkward spot because, trust me, users are getting weary of hearing "It's coming..." month after month, year after year, without much indication of the time frame. And when developers talk about their plug-ins "running just fine with Rosetta..." (and it's not just YOU... hello Audio Ease?)... we're tired of hearing that, too.

    For those of us fortunate enough to be running DAWs like Logic or Digital Performer that can host Audio Units, thanks to Apple's ingenuity, we aren't forced to run our DAWs themselves in Rosetta! Trust me... if I had to launch Digital Perfomer in Rosetta on my M1 Max Mac Studio, thus hampering my performance across the board, just to run a particular developer's plug-ins, I'd be spitting nails by now. But that's the unenviable position users of DAWs like Pro Tools or Cubase are in. They can't run your plugs without slowing their entire DAW down and sacrificing the significant performance benefits of running their DAW natively on Apple Silicon.

    Along those lines, the users I sympathize with most are Cubase 12 users. I own that app, too. Not only do they have to launch Cubase in Rosetta to run Lexicon plugs, but they have to do the same if they have UAD-2 DSP hardware as UA still does not have VST3 versions out yet, and those have been hinted at over at the UA forum for over a year I believe.

    Bottom line... again... as users we are losing patience with companies who are lagging so far behind the rest with native Apple Silicon support. Had the PCM Native Reverb Bundle not been on sale online and a very big discount, there's no way I would have purchased it without native Apple Silicon support either currently out... or very solid evidence it would be out soon, like a public beta release, for example.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @jmsteele313 said:

    @HARMAN_EElde said:> Hey @jmsteele313 thanks for your input. Personally, I know that a vast number of customers are running the plugins just fine with Rosetta, M1/M2 Macs, latest OS and software. Sometimes a simple reinstall of iLok License Manager and the latest version of the plugin will do it, or forcing Logic to rescan the plugin cache.

    Other than the performance issues with Chamber, and some of the others reported, the plugins ARE working on latest Mac and Mac OS. We definitely will have further stability fixes and new features to make the plugins a better experience for everyone.

    When I loaded certain plugins in the bundle, I did notice some took longer to load than others. On the ones that took longer I kind of held my breath in case there would be a crash, but they loaded.

    FYI, from a user perspective, stability fixes are fine, but what I really want... here halfway through 2023... is APPLE SILICON NATIVE VERSIONS. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, and I appreciate the effort you put in here. But you're put in an awkward spot because, trust me, users are getting weary of hearing "It's coming..." month after month, year after year, without much indication of the time frame. And when developers talk about their plug-ins "running just fine with Rosetta..." (and it's not just YOU... hello Audio Ease?)... we're tired of hearing that, too.

    For those of us fortunate enough to be running DAWs like Logic or Digital Performer that can host Audio Units, thanks to Apple's ingenuity, we aren't forced to run our DAWs themselves in Rosetta! Trust me... if I had to launch Digital Perfomer in Rosetta on my M1 Max Mac Studio, thus hampering my performance across the board, just to run a particular developer's plug-ins, I'd be spitting nails by now. But that's the unenviable position users of DAWs like Pro Tools or Cubase are in. They can't run your plugs without slowing their entire DAW down and sacrificing the significant performance benefits of running their DAW natively on Apple Silicon.

    Along those lines, the users I sympathize with most are Cubase 12 users. I own that app, too. Not only do they have to launch Cubase in Rosetta to run Lexicon plugs, but they have to do the same if they have UAD-2 DSP hardware as UA still does not have VST3 versions out yet, and those have been hinted at over at the UA forum for over a year I believe.

    Bottom line... again... as users we are losing patience with companies who are lagging so far behind the rest with native Apple Silicon support. Had the PCM Native Reverb Bundle not been on sale online and a very big discount, there's no way I would have purchased it without native Apple Silicon support either currently out... or very solid evidence it would be out soon, like a public beta release, for example.

    Yes, there are other updates than just the stability fixes and that will include silicon native support. The issue with silicon native is that Apple did not release developer packs and support for awhile after they introduced the chipset as well. This wasn't released until late last year for many developers. In fact ProTools themselves did not have official silicon support until March of this year.

  • Oh I get it. Avid's tardiness has given some developers some breathing room. I'm just saying there's a very small group of developers left who don't have Apple Silicon native plugs yet, even on AAX. And many of those went ahead and released AU and VST3 AS-native plugs a long time ago. They didn't hold back the other formats waiting on Pro Tools. As I said, if not for the good deal I got and the fact that my DAW supports AU, I definitely would not have purchased any Lexicon plugs. Again... I understand you're sort of the go-between here and I'm not trying to blame you, but, respectfully, AS support, if only AU or VST3. is kinda overdue. Thanks for listening (reading)!

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @jmsteele313 said:
    Oh I get it. Avid's tardiness has given some developers some breathing room. I'm just saying there's a very small group of developers left who don't have Apple Silicon native plugs yet, even on AAX. And many of those went ahead and released AU and VST3 AS-native plugs a long time ago. They didn't hold back the other formats waiting on Pro Tools. As I said, if not for the good deal I got and the fact that my DAW supports AU, I definitely would not have purchased any Lexicon plugs. Again... I understand you're sort of the go-between here and I'm not trying to blame you, but, respectfully, AS support, if only AU or VST3. is kinda overdue. Thanks for listening (reading)!

    Understood completely. I try to mitigate as much between indeed. The issues with Apple/Mac on these plugins has been not fun personally for me. I'm just glad I am using the plugins in Windows

    As I have said many times, I am making sure they know the discontent with the long and late updates with customers out there!

  • As a workaround until this all gets sorted out. You can use MetaPlugin to load Intel plugins while the DAW runs natively. I know this to be true for at least Pro Tools. Might not be the most ideal, especially if you don't already own MetaPlugin, but it seems to be working for me so far. Hopefully this is helpful to some.

  • @ilikemyrealname said:
    As a workaround until this all gets sorted out. You can use MetaPlugin to load Intel plugins while the DAW runs natively. I know this to be true for at least Pro Tools. Might not be the most ideal, especially if you don't already own MetaPlugin, but it seems to be working for me so far. Hopefully this is helpful to some.

    Yep... I use Blue Cat Audio's PatchWork to do that. You have to load the Audio Unit of course within the other plug that acts as a shell. it works... it's just a bit cumbersome.

  • @jmsteele313 said:

    Yep... I use Blue Cat Audio's PatchWork to do that. You have to load the Audio Unit of course within the other plug that acts as a shell. it works... it's just a bit cumbersome.

    I wonder about that because the instance I loaded in my screenshot is a VST. I've seen this sentiment elsewhere but it has not been the case for me while using Metaplugin. Granted, I haven't done much testing so I don't know if performance will be poorer with VST vs AU. This could also be specific to Metaplugin as I don't have/use BCA's PatchWork.

  • @ilikemyrealname said:

    @jmsteele313 said:

    Yep... I use Blue Cat Audio's PatchWork to do that. You have to load the Audio Unit of course within the other plug that acts as a shell. it works... it's just a bit cumbersome.

    I wonder about that because the instance I loaded in my screenshot is a VST. I've seen this sentiment elsewhere but it has not been the case for me while using Metaplugin. Granted, I haven't done much testing so I don't know if performance will be poorer with VST vs AU. This could also be specific to Metaplugin as I don't have/use BCA's PatchWork.

    Well the reason people usually assume that you should run the AU is because Apple built into MacOS the ability to run AUs that are not Apple Silicon native without having to run the host software in Rosetta. I'm not sure there's any OS-level support for VST that way, but maybe they've built that directly into Metaplugin?

  • easyridereasyrider Posts: 5
    edited July 2023

    Says on the website all the PCM Native reverbs are discontinued…

    https://lexiconpro.com/en/discontinued_products

    Other Discontinued Products
    LARC
    LARES
    LR-4
    MPX R1
    MRC
    PCM Native Chamber Reverb
    PCM Native Chorus
    PCM Native Concert Hall Reverb
    PCM Native Dual Delay
    PCM Native Hall Reverb
    PCM Native MultiVoice Pitch
    PCM Native Pitch Shift
    PCM Native Plate Reverb
    PCM Native Random Delay
    PCM Native Random Hall Reverb
    PCM Native Resonant Chords
    PCM Native Room Reverb
    PCM Native Stringbox
    PCM Native Vintage Plate Reverb
    PCM Total Bundle Upgrade

  • studiotonstudioton Posts: 13
    edited July 2023

    @easyrider said:
    Says on the website all the PCM Native reverbs are discontinued…

    https://lexiconpro.com/en/discontinued_products

    Other Discontinued Products
    LARC
    LARES
    LR-4
    MPX R1
    MRC
    PCM Native Chamber Reverb
    PCM Native Chorus
    PCM Native Concert Hall Reverb
    PCM Native Dual Delay
    PCM Native Hall Reverb
    PCM Native MultiVoice Pitch
    PCM Native Pitch Shift
    PCM Native Plate Reverb
    PCM Native Random Delay
    PCM Native Random Hall Reverb
    PCM Native Resonant Chords
    PCM Native Room Reverb
    PCM Native Stringbox
    PCM Native Vintage Plate Reverb
    PCM Total Bundle Upgrade

    @HARMAN_EElde has been assuring us for two years that the update is coming and that we should not worry about it.
    I think it applies to individual plugin purchases .. not for plugins itself !?

  • a> @studioton said:

    @HARMAN_EElde has been assuring us for two years that the update is coming and that we should not worry about it.
    I think it applies to individual plugin purchases .. not for plugins itself !?

    I think you're right as you're still able to purchase them in bundles.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @studioton said:

    @easyrider said:
    Says on the website all the PCM Native reverbs are discontinued…

    https://lexiconpro.com/en/discontinued_products

    Other Discontinued Products
    LARC
    LARES
    LR-4
    MPX R1
    MRC
    PCM Native Chamber Reverb
    PCM Native Chorus
    PCM Native Concert Hall Reverb
    PCM Native Dual Delay
    PCM Native Hall Reverb
    PCM Native MultiVoice Pitch
    PCM Native Pitch Shift
    PCM Native Plate Reverb
    PCM Native Random Delay
    PCM Native Random Hall Reverb
    PCM Native Resonant Chords
    PCM Native Room Reverb
    PCM Native Stringbox
    PCM Native Vintage Plate Reverb
    PCM Total Bundle Upgrade

    @HARMAN_EElde has been assuring us for two years that the update is coming and that we should not worry about it.
    I think it applies to individual plugin purchases .. not for plugins itself !?

    Yes, that is just the individual plugins - we just no longer sell them that way. The PCM Native Reverb and Effects Bundles (ie: PCM Total Bundle), LPX Native Reverb Bundle and the MPX Native Reverb will all be updated with Mac OS native silicon versions, VST3, Machine authentication and updates to fix performance and stability issues of the plugins.

    Still no ETA but as I said, I will announce when it is in beta phase and when we have open beta testing as well as public beta and full released versions.

  • jmsteele313jmsteele313 Posts: 22
    edited July 2023

    @HARMAN_EElde said:
    Yes, that is just the individual plugins - we just no longer sell them that way. The PCM Native Reverb and Effects Bundles (ie: PCM Total Bundle), LXP Native Reverb Bundle and the MPX Native Reverb will all be updated with Mac OS native silicon versions, VST3, Machine authentication and updates to fix performance and stability issues of the plugins.

    Well THAT is good news. Waiting for the blood that drained out of my face a moment ago to return.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @jmsteele313 said:

    @HARMAN_EElde said:
    Yes, that is just the individual plugins - we just no longer sell them that way. The PCM Native Reverb and Effects Bundles (ie: PCM Total Bundle), LXP Native Reverb Bundle and the MPX Native Reverb will all be updated with Mac OS native silicon versions, VST3, Machine authentication and updates to fix performance and stability issues of the plugins.

    Well THAT is good news. Waiting for the blood that drained out of my face a moment ago to return.

    Things are not great I realize with the expediency of the updates, but I do not want people thinking we are just discontinuing them or that the software is "abandonware."

    Had to set the record straight there for sure!

  • yazanyazan Posts: 6

    here we are in August and still no news!!

  • @yazan said:
    here we are in August and still no news!!

    I second this. It would be nice to get a status update with a timeframe. PA just put out a message to say they're on track for end of August. Kush has a progress bar on their site. How far along are the devs and when do they think they'll have this M1 Native VST3, AU, AAX update out to us?

  • @ilikemyrealname said:
    PA just put out a message to say they're on track for end of August. Kush has a progress bar on their site. How far along are the devs and when do they think they'll have this M1 Native VST3, AU, AAX update out to us?

    And actually PA's statement was mostly about catching up with AAX support. They've already had most of their VST3 and AU plugins native for Apple Silicon for a while already.

  • @jmsteele313 said:

    @ilikemyrealname said:
    PA just put out a message to say they're on track for end of August. Kush has a progress bar on their site. How far along are the devs and when do they think they'll have this M1 Native VST3, AU, AAX update out to us?

    And actually PA's statement was mostly about catching up with AAX support. They've already had most of their VST3 and AU plugins native for Apple Silicon for a while already.

    That's a fair point. I use Pro Tools exclusively so this was lost on me.

  • Well that's really weird. I made a post and now it's gone. Okay then.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365
    edited August 2023

    No updates or timelines guys. I can't do anything about it - they are not giving me any information to impart to you when I ask for it.

    At this point making periodic posts on this forum is not going to move the ball any quicker or faster on this issue, I've shared every concern, shown every thread, and it doesn't seem to be making any movement.

    As consumers I would recommend contacting our Corporate Offices to see if maybe someone in more senior management can help - I've made my concerns known up the chain. Feel free to do the same:

    HARMAN International
    400 Atlantic Street
    Stamford, CT 06901, USA

    In the meantime - if I get news, I'll impart if/when I do. As of now. None to impart.

    @jmsteele313 said:
    Well that's really weird. I made a post and now it's gone. Okay then.

    We had a few hiccups with servers the other week and that could have been related. A few other posts from other threads are missing as well.

  • plfplf Posts: 7

    @HARMAN_EElde said:
    No updates or timelines guys. I can't do anything about it - they are not giving me any information to impart to you when I ask for it.

    At this point making periodic posts on this forum is not going to move the ball any quicker or faster on this issue, I've shared every concern, shown every thread, and it doesn't seem to be making any movement.

    As consumers I would recommend contacting our Corporate Offices to see if maybe someone in more senior management can help - I've made my concerns known up the chain. Feel free to do the same:

    HARMAN International
    400 Atlantic Street
    Stamford, CT 06901, USA

    In the meantime - if I get news, I'll impart if/when I do. As of now. None to impart.

    While I think most of us are aware that you can't do much but pass on our complaints, I still wish more people would blow up this forum on a regular basis actually. Not to be a pain in the butt for you, but rather because volume usually always helps to elevate the priority of something. I would bet that ten thousand people posting here would send a stronger signal and create a greater sense of urgency than a few dozens of people posting.

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