Summing the inputs together results in a PARALLEL mono output :shock: :shock: :shock: . (***On Edit - Or Dual Mono Output...not sure if parallel was the right word )
In any case, I just got this :oops: . Thank you!!! A wildly self-evident truth for you guys, but a minor mental breakthrough for me .
When you go to set up the out fill 6000:
first the xover points
1. HPF 91 hz LR48 (the blue trace) LPF 1.155khz LR48 gain -1.7dB
next the Peq's
2. Low shelf peq, 182 hz, slope is 9dB/octave, add 3.5dB ( this is more like a tone control that adds to the lows up to xover point)
peq 1, 93.6 hz, Q= 2.996, gain= 3dB
peq 2, 250 hz, Q= 2.996, gain -2.0dB
peq 3, 500hz, Q= .993, gain -1.5dB
Gadget,
Okay, that helped a bunch (Last night I was trying to input the PEQ's from the CH 6 output of the 260 - which I assume were arbitrary numbers, since the PEQ was disabled - which makes sense...since I should have to set them in the XTi's for the outfills) .
Now I have a couple more questions:
1. I noticed the first band in the LF PEQ had a slope listed instead of a Q number (You gave me the other 3 bands listed above), and the (4) HF PEQ's all had Q numbers and none w/ a slope...this is correct?
2. When setting up the Crossover for the XTi2000, the gain listed in the 260 is -14dB, which I was able to select w/ no problems in Channel One, but in Channel Two I could only choose either -13.82 or -14.12dB, nothing in between. Your thoughts?
3. I copied the numbers from the limiter in the 260, but they don't correspond w/ the limiter in the XTi's (my choices are only OFF, -3dB, -6dB or -12dB...no overeasy, attack, release, etc). Your thoughts again?
The delay I set to 10 feet for the time being (until I can get exact measurements after relocating the speakers).
And on a side note...I do remember the horns being as long as the woofers in the SRX715's, when I had the handles off as I was rigging them up to hang.
Hey Rob,
Now listen carefully...there are 2 different kinds of PEQ's available...
1. Shelf filters... look at these as very much like a LPF with out an HPF and an HPF without an LPF...the slope is how fast the frequency falls off...
Look at the GUI and load the program that I sent you...open the PEQ's for the left and right lows... note that the RED #1 PEQ boosts EVERYTHING from 182 hz down by 3.5dB, and that the slope is 9dB / octave....What were doing here in stead of placing a BELL curve on the lows we want to affect more frequencies and we want to go for an across the board boost (below the selected filter center point).
So look at a High shelf, or Low shelf PEQ as a filter/crossover where from the crossover point up, or down the sound rises/falls off at a given rate (slope) like a xover point. In this case we are boosting everything starting @ 182 hz, rising to a peak of 3.5dB and boosting everything from there down by 3.5dB...
Now I know this isn't intuitive, but there is still the subs,,, and that boost WILL extend down into the subwoofer region (but ONLY in the tops "low mids") that means, that even though the boost of the low mids technically ends where the tops HPF starts... the lows are still only falling off at the rate of the low mid crossover point... which is... LR48... right?
WHEW... that is a LOT to take in... read it over and ask your questions.
G
I've just spent the last three days reading all 15 pages of posts containing the query "PEQ" (219 posts :shock: ). I was determined not to come back until I had read everything I could find on the site.
Now, I have studied Hegel, Kant, Heidegger and other philosophers that will make your head spin. I have completed Calculus II and physics with calculus. I have learned how to use midas, ssl and other consoles. I know how to use pro tools, cakewalk and cubase.
And I still don't get it! HAHAHAHAHA...Nah, I'm just being funny (I thought I'd test everyone's memory with the above "quote" ). But I did chuckle when I read that post .
I now have a MUCH better understanding of the PEQ's for real 8) . And I can confidently say I actually understand your last post now :shock: :shock: 8).
That said...I'm going to bed .
I'll be back tomorrow w/ questions to try and finish setting up the XTi's w/ SA.
Here is how Dennis suggested for the indoors auto EQ...
and it works GREAT! better than this way...
smoother, less drastic cuts/boosts, better sounding all around....
I also built this little rig for the local Eagles Club (like a VFW)...
and it worked great! The band says it's the only time in like 12 years of playing that bar that they didn't get asked to turn the sound down...They were pretty darn happy about that I fell into a "deal of the century" on those Anchor Extreme powered speakers... got 8 for $200... with cases! This one gig paid for them.. and I used 4 for monitors and they loved them as well...win win win!
G
I've seen your pictures...don't you already have way too much sound equipment :P ? (I know, that's a silly question...like having too many guns...or girls, hahaha).
And, are you recommending I change the way I had planned on running the Auto EQ (mic on sheet of plywood layed on tall tables facing one hung speaker) to a similar set up to what is in the picture (one speaker layed sideways)?
Okay, I'll try both...the Auto EQ doesn't scare me anymore...I understand it much better now...interpreting the results and setting a PEQ to compensate...that still scares me, lol.
On a side note...
Last night (after I said I was going to bed, but couldn't leave it alone ), I went back into System Architect and played with the PEQ's some more. I set up a new venue (just as a practice run), and then went to the JBL site and downloaded the SRX700 folder.
The PEQ settings supplied by JBL...they are to compensate for, lack of a better word, shortcomings in the speaker as manufactured...is that right?
But...the shelf filter PEQ that you gave me, was not from JBL...is that right? But more from your experience w/ the JBL stuff?
Also, I can load the bell curve PEQ setting into the output EQ on the XTi's in SA (they all have Q settings), but I can't find anywhere to load the shelf filter (except in the "input EQ" section), but there is nowhere to select the slope...only freq and gain).
Am I on the right track? Those qualifications I joked about obviously aren't mine, lol...I never made it past the 10th grade, haha.
That file I sent you came right from JBL... I guess the filters are a little bit different form dbx to Crown... but if you look, once you load the file from JBL into the XTi, the output filters are loaded, and the #1 filter is a low shelf...
All you will need to do (on the XTi6000) is right click on channel one 'out EQ' and 'X-over' and 'Delay' and "copy" channel 'A' and "paste" to channel 'B'
here's why...
When you load the preset from JBL.. the 'A' channel will be LOW outs to the 715's, and the 'B' channel will the HIGH outs to the 715's....so just copy and paste the A channel presets and load them to the B channel ...
The XTi 2000, you will need to do the opposite.......load the 'B' channel presets to the 'A' channel....because the 2000 needs the High output setups...
once you load the file from JBL into the XTi, the output filters are loaded, and the #1 filter is a low shelf...
Gadget,
Here is where I'm lost...I have only been able to manually input settings into System Architect (and then save them to the Venue). I haven't figured out how to load the file from JBL into SA (and I also don't know how to load the Venue into the amps once completed, but I'm not that far yet anyway).
In other words, I manually set all 4 bell type PEQ's for the HF of the SRX715's into the XTi 2000 portion of the Venue that I created in SA, and I also set the 3 bell type PEQ's for the LF portion SRX715's into the XTI6000 portion of the same Venue in SA (using the numbers that I physically copied from the 260), but I can't figure out how to input the shelf filter PEQ (from JBL also for the LF portion of the SRX715's).
Here's what I did...(and I'm not sure if I had the files on my computer already....?)
Open HiQnet Sytem Architect ...
Load 2 XTi's (double click on the XTi icons on the left under Crown devices)
You should have 2 XTi's in the Venue now...
Lets double click on the top XTi and call that the low amp....
That will open the XTi ... Left click on 'file', 'open', and 'device file'
It should say Look in:
and under that there should be a list of system Architect files ... one should be :
SRX700 Tunings Jan 15 2009 (If there not there I will also send you the file)
Double click on this file...
Now go back to the opened XTI amp and after the 'Preset' box click on the 'Recall' button...
From the dropdown file select SRX715B bi-amp NO SUB file (double click) Now the box should read :
SRX715B bi-amp NO SUB
Now you have loaded the SRX 715's in the venue amp...do the same for the second amp which will be your XTi 2000...
Thanks, Gadget...I think you may have had that file already on your PC :? . I had gotten that far on my own (amazingly, lol), but each time I tried to add a file from my desktop, it said it was not a .device file, or something along those lines (I tried the .dwp file you sent me and the SRX700 Tunings file from JBL, but no joy - when I opened the SRX700 file it would say "System Architect 2.20 etc, etc", but nothing else).*** On Edit...WAIT!WAIT!WAIT!...I GOT THAT TO WORK!!!
So, yes, I would appreciate it if you could send me the file . And thank you in advance for once again providing me w/ another life preserver .(BELAY MY LAST...THANK YOU!!!!)
I can't wipe this big ass smile off my face now, lol...I see light at the end of the tunnel...finally .
I made the copy & paste changes (ch 1 to ch 2 and vice versa on the applicable amps), summed the outputs back together, and saved and labeled the changes to replace preset #20 (now called "XTi2000 Outfill" and "XTi6000 Outfill" 8) 8) 8) .
I did notice there was some delay listed for the lows (you had mentioned it was odd that none was listed in the 260). It was 210.0us.
Also, some of the bell widths (Q) were different in the PEQ's (you mentioned that as well), but everything looked reasonable...according to the little bit that I know, lol).
Thank you again...I will sleep good tonight. I know you get thanked alot on here, but damn, you definitely deserve them all !!
Before I try and load the saved settings from System Architect into the XTi's, I have a few more questions...
1. In the XTi manual, it states that summing the inputs together adds +6dB to the output. And the design that Dennis came up w/ requires the outfills to be -3dB. Does that mean I need to set the level sliders in SA to -9dB?
2. The delay listed in the LF portion of the SRX715's from JBL is 210.0us. I need to set the delay for the outfills (LF and HF) after measurements are taken once the tops are in their final location. Should I add the 210.0us to the LF portion (I.E. 210.0us + 8.85ms)? Also, should I go back into the Driverack and reset the delay for the LF portion of the tops (there is no delay listed in the .dwp file)?
3. Once I finish the Venue in SA, how do I physically load the saved presets into the actual amps (I know by USB cable, but I can't find any instructions pertaining to this part).
4. And I know this is a little off subject, but I did an imaginary dry run today setting up the gain structure (I'm going to try and install the 260 this coming week...maybe, lol). When I open the Mixer Input Dialog box, it has a "Pink Noise" enable button and gain slider at the bottom of the window. Should this button be "off" since I'm running the pink noise from my NS7?
1. In the XTi manual, it states that summing the inputs together adds +6dB to the output. And the design that Dennis came up w/ requires the outfills to be -3dB. Does that mean I need to set the level sliders in SA to -9dB?
Well, without verifying this I would have to say yes...you can always add gain if needed right
The delay listed in the LF portion of the SRX715's from JBL is 210.0us. I need to set the delay for the outfills (LF and HF) after measurements are taken once the tops are in their final location. Should I add the 210.0us to the LF portion (I.E. 210.0us + 8.85ms) Also, should I go back into the Driverack and reset the delay for the LF portion of the tops (there is no delay listed in the .dwp file)?
Well.. how about adding this delay to the other XTi amps? As you surmised...that delay is about 3 inches... and we still need to delay the tops to the subs...this requires... (for example) if we come up with a delay of 15ms for the low mids to the subs... you will need to delay the horn by 15ms, and the mids by an additional 210us...
The best method of calculating the LF to sub delay (without SMAART) is to reverse the polarity of either the subs or the low mid ...and then play a tone @ the crossover frequency, and sweep the delay till the tone is minimized...NOTE this will happen somewhat less than like a grand mall seizure... in other words it will likely be subtle... and you will need to pick a spot that the "effect" will center on... like the center of the dance floor, and realize that anywhere OTHER than that will be less than perfect...
BTW the minimum delay in the 260 is .02ms...like 1/4 inch...and the 260 can delay over 1/2 mile...so I have no Idea why they didn't add the delay...(you can also redistribute the delay within the 260 if needed ... like for delay towers where you need a few hundred feet...)
Damn you Gadget...I was just feeling all vagenius-like for only about two seconds
and we still need to delay the tops to the subs...this requires... (for example) if we come up with a delay of 15ms for the low mids to the subs... you will need to delay the horn by 15ms, and the mids by an additional 210us...
Okay, let me see if I have this straight...
Subs - no delay, easy enough.
Main Tops - delayed in relationship to the subs - I'll use your example of 15ms (w/ mids delayed an additional 210us)
Outfills - delayed by 15ms plus delayed by relationship to mains (maybe 8.85ms +/-) and then Outfill mids delayed by an additional 210.ms. Right?
The best method of calculating the LF to sub delay (without SMAART) is to reverse the polarity of either the subs or the low mid
I'm w/ you so far...
...and then play a tone @ the crossover frequency
Like a 80Hz tone? I'll have to look in my junk drawer for one of those, but I can do that.
and sweep the delay till the tone is minimized...NOTE this will happen somewhat less than like a grand mall seizure... in other words it will likely be subtle
I do like trying new things, lol. Did I say next week :shock: ? (***On Edit - I just realized I'm going to have to hook up the Driverack and move the speakers first before I can calculate the delays ).
My outfill amps are done !! I brought my laptop up to the booth and opened System Architect while connected to each amp...and it was that easy...piece of cake 8) .
For the time being I set the delay in the XTi2000 at 20ms and the XTi6000 at 20.21 ms. I'll go back and change them after I get more accurate numbers (as well as adding more PEQ's after the Auto EQ).
On Monday I will move the speakers to their final resting place, set up the gain structure, run the Auto EQ and try to make sense of the results .
Thanks a million times to Gadget and Dennis for getting me this far .
Rob,
Your "Can't/Don't attitude" (just kidding) your can do attitude, even in the face of a daunting learning curve has made all the difference here...We enjoy working with people that "get it" ... and were willing to go the extra mile for those that will listen, and learn and be willing to do what is necessary to get the results that you can get if your willing to work for it.
I'm sure your results will be stunning! and no one will even have a clue that you went to all that expense and trouble to provide them with the superior product you will have...but you will always remember the kick in the 'ass' from the old farts @ the dbx site.
I installed the Driverack and got it all wired up to the amps and looking pretty 8) .
I've got the speakers about half-way moved...it was a task getting the angles just right :shock: . In the end a long strand of string, a large speed square and tape measure did the trick . I think I have the angles within a few inches anyway, give or take. I'll finish hanging them tomorrow.
Since I have the speakers still disconnected I'm going to set the gain structure later tonight (breaking for dinner right now ).
Hoping to give the Auto EQ a run tomorrow if I get all the speakers back up early enough.
If you still have one down... this method offered GREAT results:
This ground plane method was proposed by Dennis and it so far has offered great results with 2 systems... the Anchor Xtreme powered speakers, and my Yorkville Elite 2204 (2X15" with 2" horns.
(the white things are soft surfaces to eliminate hard surfaces that might cause reflections...)
The fact is that my ULTRA picky son was THRILLED by the sound of the Yorkies last weekend (and I don't think he has EVER been.. he did say he had to drop the horns by .3dB )
G
I tried to set the gain structure...but...I can't get any of the amps to clip :? :? :? .
Here's where I am...all PEQ's off (on both the 260 and XTi Outfills), all limiters OFF, I have pink noise playing on the NS7 (with the clip indicator light occasionally bouncing on).
On the panel meter of the 260, CH 6 output is already bouncing in the red, before I adjust the input faders (while all the other 5 channels are well below the yellow??).
So, I slide the faders down to -10 dB, which gives me the following results on the output meters:
CH 1 & 2: -6 dB
CH 3 & 4: bouncing from 0 dB to +6dB
CH 5: 0dB
CH 6: bouncing in yellow at +12dB to +18dB
Input Meters: showing +6dBu at this setting, and none of the amps will even come close to clipping.
So, I turned CH 6 OFF (Mute) and...
I'm able to move the input sliders up to -3dB, which results in the input meters bouncing in the yellow at +18dBu, but still no clipping on any of the amps with them all the way up (although closer on the amp meters this time).
Even If I crank the NS7 up to where it's clearly constantly clipping, still no clipping on the amps (the NS7 does have an internal limiter, though, that cannot be bypassed...according to the tech guys on the Serato forum).
And Gadget...it just dawned on me...the CH6 output was so much higher as it was getting ALL of the frequencies at one time from the pink noise, whereas the other channels all had crossover points set, so they were only getting some of the frequencies...is that correct?
Are you sure? As I recall we set limiters on the amps...
I had to re-install my computer and lost the files I sent you but I could swear that the amps AND 260 had limiters set...
And Gadget...it just dawned on me...the CH6 output was so much higher as it was getting ALL of the frequencies at one time from the pink noise, whereas the other channels all had crossover points set, so they were only getting some of the frequencies...is that correct?
No... the outfills have the same (although as I recall.. we saw a few, though probably insignificant, differences...) programming that the centers do, except for the delay, and shading... right?
G
Are you sure? As I recall we set limiters on the amps...
I had to re-install my computer and lost the files I sent you but I could swear that the amps AND 260 had limiters set...
Yes, I opened up the limiter modules on the 260 and turned them off (for CH1&2, CH 3&4, CH5). I haven't set the limiters on the (2) XTi's that run off of CH6 (Outfills). I will double check them again just to be 100% certain.
Quote:
And Gadget...it just dawned on me...the CH6 output was so much higher as it was getting ALL of the frequencies at one time from the pink noise, whereas the other channels all had crossover points set, so they were only getting some of the frequencies...is that correct?
No... the outfills have the same (although as I recall.. we saw a few, though probably insignificant, differences...) programming that the centers do, except for the delay, and shading... right?
Yes, that's true, but all of the programming for CH6 takes place in the XTi's...so, the output from the 260 for CH6 would not reflect those, is that not correct (when I click on the XOVER module for CH6 on the 260, it's all frequencies in a solid red and blue band...no curves, etc.)?
Yes, that's true, but all of the programming for CH6 takes place in the XTi's...so, the output from the 260 for CH6 would not reflect those, is that not correct (when I click on the XOVER module for CH6 on the 260, it's all frequencies in a solid red and blue band...no curves, etc.)?
Yes, sounds correct, but make sure I didn't set the limiter on channel 6... JBL does provide settings...
What is the dB xover level setting for the various outputs form the 260? are they all the same?
G
Comments
In any case, I just got this :oops: . Thank you!!! A wildly self-evident truth for you guys, but a minor mental breakthrough for me
I'll try SA again this evening 8).
Thanks again.
Rob
Okay, that helped a bunch (Last night I was trying to input the PEQ's from the CH 6 output of the 260 - which I assume were arbitrary numbers, since the PEQ was disabled - which makes sense...since I should have to set them in the XTi's for the outfills) .
Now I have a couple more questions:
1. I noticed the first band in the LF PEQ had a slope listed instead of a Q number (You gave me the other 3 bands listed above), and the (4) HF PEQ's all had Q numbers and none w/ a slope...this is correct?
2. When setting up the Crossover for the XTi2000, the gain listed in the 260 is -14dB, which I was able to select w/ no problems in Channel One, but in Channel Two I could only choose either -13.82 or -14.12dB, nothing in between. Your thoughts?
3. I copied the numbers from the limiter in the 260, but they don't correspond w/ the limiter in the XTi's (my choices are only OFF, -3dB, -6dB or -12dB...no overeasy, attack, release, etc). Your thoughts again?
The delay I set to 10 feet for the time being (until I can get exact measurements after relocating the speakers).
And on a side note...I do remember the horns being as long as the woofers in the SRX715's, when I had the handles off as I was rigging them up to hang.
Thanks.
Rob
Now listen carefully...there are 2 different kinds of PEQ's available...
1. Shelf filters... look at these as very much like a LPF with out an HPF and an HPF without an LPF...the slope is how fast the frequency falls off...
Look at the GUI and load the program that I sent you...open the PEQ's for the left and right lows... note that the RED #1 PEQ boosts EVERYTHING from 182 hz down by 3.5dB, and that the slope is 9dB / octave....What were doing here in stead of placing a BELL curve on the lows we want to affect more frequencies and we want to go for an across the board boost (below the selected filter center point).
So look at a High shelf, or Low shelf PEQ as a filter/crossover where from the crossover point up, or down the sound rises/falls off at a given rate (slope) like a xover point. In this case we are boosting everything starting @ 182 hz, rising to a peak of 3.5dB and boosting everything from there down by 3.5dB...
Now I know this isn't intuitive, but there is still the subs,,, and that boost WILL extend down into the subwoofer region (but ONLY in the tops "low mids") that means, that even though the boost of the low mids technically ends where the tops HPF starts... the lows are still only falling off at the rate of the low mid crossover point... which is... LR48... right?
WHEW... that is a LOT to take in... read it over and ask your questions.
G
Where is the "I want to throw up emoticon", lol
(***Previous paragragh deleted)...I definitely didn't have it :oops: :oops: .
I'll try and read more about PEQ's...maybe I'll hook up the 260 the week after next :twisted: .
Rob
I've just spent the last three days reading all 15 pages of posts containing the query "PEQ" (219 posts :shock: ). I was determined not to come back until I had read everything I could find on the site.
Now, I have studied Hegel, Kant, Heidegger and other philosophers that will make your head spin. I have completed Calculus II and physics with calculus. I have learned how to use midas, ssl and other consoles. I know how to use pro tools, cakewalk and cubase.
And I still don't get it! HAHAHAHAHA...Nah, I'm just being funny (I thought I'd test everyone's memory with the above "quote"
I now have a MUCH better understanding of the PEQ's for real 8) . And I can confidently say I actually understand your last post now :shock: :shock: 8).
That said...I'm going to bed
I'll be back tomorrow w/ questions to try and finish setting up the XTi's w/ SA.
Cheers
Rob
Here is how Dennis suggested for the indoors auto EQ...
and it works GREAT! better than this way...
smoother, less drastic cuts/boosts, better sounding all around....
I also built this little rig for the local Eagles Club (like a VFW)...
and it worked great! The band says it's the only time in like 12 years of playing that bar that they didn't get asked to turn the sound down...They were pretty darn happy about that
G
I've seen your pictures...don't you already have way too much sound equipment :P ? (I know, that's a silly question...like having too many guns...or girls, hahaha).
And, are you recommending I change the way I had planned on running the Auto EQ (mic on sheet of plywood layed on tall tables facing one hung speaker) to a similar set up to what is in the picture (one speaker layed sideways)?
the floor method will get you as flat as possible (RTA style)
the other will then be compared to that as an "ok lets see whats happening in the room"...
g
On a side note...
Last night (after I said I was going to bed, but couldn't leave it alone
The PEQ settings supplied by JBL...they are to compensate for, lack of a better word, shortcomings in the speaker as manufactured...is that right?
But...the shelf filter PEQ that you gave me, was not from JBL...is that right? But more from your experience w/ the JBL stuff?
Also, I can load the bell curve PEQ setting into the output EQ on the XTi's in SA (they all have Q settings), but I can't find anywhere to load the shelf filter (except in the "input EQ" section), but there is nowhere to select the slope...only freq and gain).
Am I on the right track? Those qualifications I joked about obviously aren't mine, lol...I never made it past the 10th grade, haha.
Thanks
Rob
All you will need to do (on the XTi6000) is right click on channel one 'out EQ' and 'X-over' and 'Delay' and "copy" channel 'A' and "paste" to channel 'B'
here's why...
When you load the preset from JBL.. the 'A' channel will be LOW outs to the 715's, and the 'B' channel will the HIGH outs to the 715's....so just copy and paste the A channel presets and load them to the B channel ...
The XTi 2000, you will need to do the opposite.......load the 'B' channel presets to the 'A' channel....because the 2000 needs the High output setups...
Got it
G
Yup, your getting it...
I remember that poster...
G
Here is where I'm lost...I have only been able to manually input settings into System Architect (and then save them to the Venue). I haven't figured out how to load the file from JBL into SA (and I also don't know how to load the Venue into the amps once completed, but I'm not that far yet anyway).
In other words, I manually set all 4 bell type PEQ's for the HF of the SRX715's into the XTi 2000 portion of the Venue that I created in SA, and I also set the 3 bell type PEQ's for the LF portion SRX715's into the XTI6000 portion of the same Venue in SA (using the numbers that I physically copied from the 260), but I can't figure out how to input the shelf filter PEQ (from JBL also for the LF portion of the SRX715's).
Thanks.
Rob
Open HiQnet Sytem Architect ...
Load 2 XTi's (double click on the XTi icons on the left under Crown devices)
You should have 2 XTi's in the Venue now...
Lets double click on the top XTi and call that the low amp....
That will open the XTi ... Left click on 'file', 'open', and 'device file'
It should say Look in:
and under that there should be a list of system Architect files ... one should be :
SRX700 Tunings Jan 15 2009 (If there not there I will also send you the file)
Double click on this file...
Now go back to the opened XTI amp and after the 'Preset' box click on the 'Recall' button...
From the dropdown file select SRX715B bi-amp NO SUB file (double click) Now the box should read :
SRX715B bi-amp NO SUB
Now you have loaded the SRX 715's in the venue amp...do the same for the second amp which will be your XTi 2000...
That's enough overload for the moment...
G
So, yes, I would appreciate it if you could send me the file
I can't wipe this big ass smile off my face now, lol...I see light at the end of the tunnel...finally
I made the copy & paste changes (ch 1 to ch 2 and vice versa on the applicable amps), summed the outputs back together, and saved and labeled the changes to replace preset #20 (now called "XTi2000 Outfill" and "XTi6000 Outfill"
I did notice there was some delay listed for the lows (you had mentioned it was odd that none was listed in the 260). It was 210.0us.
Also, some of the bell widths (Q) were different in the PEQ's (you mentioned that as well), but everything looked reasonable...according to the little bit that I know, lol).
Thank you again...I will sleep good tonight. I know you get thanked alot on here, but damn, you definitely deserve them all
Before I try and load the saved settings from System Architect into the XTi's, I have a few more questions...
1. In the XTi manual, it states that summing the inputs together adds +6dB to the output. And the design that Dennis came up w/ requires the outfills to be -3dB. Does that mean I need to set the level sliders in SA to -9dB?
2. The delay listed in the LF portion of the SRX715's from JBL is 210.0us. I need to set the delay for the outfills (LF and HF) after measurements are taken once the tops are in their final location. Should I add the 210.0us to the LF portion (I.E. 210.0us + 8.85ms)? Also, should I go back into the Driverack and reset the delay for the LF portion of the tops (there is no delay listed in the .dwp file)?
3. Once I finish the Venue in SA, how do I physically load the saved presets into the actual amps (I know by USB cable, but I can't find any instructions pertaining to this part).
4. And I know this is a little off subject, but I did an imaginary dry run today setting up the gain structure (I'm going to try and install the 260 this coming week...maybe, lol). When I open the Mixer Input Dialog box, it has a "Pink Noise" enable button and gain slider at the bottom of the window. Should this button be "off" since I'm running the pink noise from my NS7?
Thanks.
Rob
Well.. how about adding this delay to the other XTi amps? As you surmised...that delay is about 3 inches... and we still need to delay the tops to the subs...this requires... (for example) if we come up with a delay of 15ms for the low mids to the subs... you will need to delay the horn by 15ms, and the mids by an additional 210us...
The best method of calculating the LF to sub delay (without SMAART) is to reverse the polarity of either the subs or the low mid ...and then play a tone @ the crossover frequency, and sweep the delay till the tone is minimized...NOTE this will happen somewhat less than like a grand mall seizure... in other words it will likely be subtle... and you will need to pick a spot that the "effect" will center on... like the center of the dance floor, and realize that anywhere OTHER than that will be less than perfect...
BTW the minimum delay in the 260 is .02ms...like 1/4 inch...and the 260 can delay over 1/2 mile...so I have no Idea why they didn't add the delay...(you can also redistribute the delay within the 260 if needed ... like for delay towers where you need a few hundred feet...)
G
Subs - no delay, easy enough.
Main Tops - delayed in relationship to the subs - I'll use your example of 15ms (w/ mids delayed an additional 210us)
Outfills - delayed by 15ms plus delayed by relationship to mains (maybe 8.85ms +/-) and then Outfill mids delayed by an additional 210.ms. Right?
I'm w/ you so far... Like a 80Hz tone? I'll have to look in my junk drawer for one of those, but I can do that. I do like trying new things, lol. Did I say next week :shock:
Thanks, Gadget 8) .
For the time being I set the delay in the XTi2000 at 20ms and the XTi6000 at 20.21 ms. I'll go back and change them after I get more accurate numbers (as well as adding more PEQ's after the Auto EQ).
On Monday I will move the speakers to their final resting place, set up the gain structure, run the Auto EQ and try to make sense of the results
Thanks a million times to Gadget and Dennis for getting me this far
Rob
Your "Can't/Don't attitude"
I'm sure your results will be stunning! and no one will even have a clue that you went to all that expense and trouble
Happy holidays Rob.. to you and yours!
Gadget
Rob
I installed the Driverack and got it all wired up to the amps and looking pretty 8) .
I've got the speakers about half-way moved...it was a task getting the angles just right :shock: . In the end a long strand of string, a large speed square and tape measure did the trick
Since I have the speakers still disconnected I'm going to set the gain structure later tonight (breaking for dinner right now
Hoping to give the Auto EQ a run tomorrow if I get all the speakers back up early enough.
I'll post my results then :twisted: .
This ground plane method was proposed by Dennis and it so far has offered great results with 2 systems... the Anchor Xtreme powered speakers, and my Yorkville Elite 2204 (2X15" with 2" horns.
(the white things are soft surfaces to eliminate hard surfaces that might cause reflections...)
The fact is that my ULTRA picky son was THRILLED by the sound of the Yorkies last weekend (and I don't think he has EVER been.. he did say he had to drop the horns by .3dB
G
I tried to set the gain structure...but...I can't get any of the amps to clip :? :? :? .
Here's where I am...all PEQ's off (on both the 260 and XTi Outfills), all limiters OFF, I have pink noise playing on the NS7 (with the clip indicator light occasionally bouncing on).
On the panel meter of the 260, CH 6 output is already bouncing in the red, before I adjust the input faders (while all the other 5 channels are well below the yellow??).
So, I slide the faders down to -10 dB, which gives me the following results on the output meters:
CH 1 & 2: -6 dB
CH 3 & 4: bouncing from 0 dB to +6dB
CH 5: 0dB
CH 6: bouncing in yellow at +12dB to +18dB
Input Meters: showing +6dBu at this setting, and none of the amps will even come close to clipping.
So, I turned CH 6 OFF (Mute) and...
I'm able to move the input sliders up to -3dB, which results in the input meters bouncing in the yellow at +18dBu, but still no clipping on any of the amps with them all the way up (although closer on the amp meters this time).
Even If I crank the NS7 up to where it's clearly constantly clipping, still no clipping on the amps (the NS7 does have an internal limiter, though, that cannot be bypassed...according to the tech guys on the Serato forum).
Your thoughts?
Thanks.
Rob
DRA
Yep, ALL the limiters are off.
And Gadget...it just dawned on me...the CH6 output was so much higher as it was getting ALL of the frequencies at one time from the pink noise, whereas the other channels all had crossover points set, so they were only getting some of the frequencies...is that correct?
Thanks.
Rob
Are you sure? As I recall we set limiters on the amps...
I had to re-install my computer and lost the files I sent you but I could swear that the amps AND 260 had limiters set...
No... the outfills have the same (although as I recall.. we saw a few, though probably insignificant, differences...) programming that the centers do, except for the delay, and shading... right?
G
Rob
Yes, sounds correct, but make sure I didn't set the limiter on channel 6... JBL does provide settings...
What is the dB xover level setting for the various outputs form the 260? are they all the same?
G