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M1 Apple Silicon and VST3 support

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  • Or, take this to Harman's social media. This being buried in this forum isn't helping. This just really sucks. Especially since I bought the PCM Total Bundle not too long ago. However, I did peruse the Harman website to take note of all of the brands I won't be buying anything from in the future.

    I know HARMAN_EElde has done what is possible, including helping me out with some stuff along the way that I greatly appreciate, but after this much time, with no communication, this is not the behavior of a respectable company. If Plugin Alliance beats you to it you have failed at being a company that deserves to, in fact, be in business doing anything

    No matter what happens, if the updates are released tomorrow, HARMIN' has lost me as a customer forever.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @blacksoxsound said:
    Or, take this to Harman's social media. This being buried in this forum isn't helping. This just really sucks. Especially since I bought the PCM Total Bundle not too long ago. However, I did peruse the Harman website to take note of all of the brands I won't be buying anything from in the future.

    I know HARMAN_EElde has done what is possible, including helping me out with some stuff along the way that I greatly appreciate, but after this much time, with no communication, this is not the behavior of a respectable company. If Plugin Alliance beats you to it you have failed at being a company that deserves to, in fact, be in business doing anything

    No matter what happens, if the updates are released tomorrow, HARMIN' has lost me as a customer forever.

    Thanks for the shoutout. I am really advocating as much as I can for everyone and like to be helpful!!

  • Yeah... I appreciate all that you do, and nobody wants to direct abuse in your direction. You're put in an awkward position. I would just say that as a customer, I do feel that the corporate leadership is showing me that I'm not a priority by their seeming disinterest in giving you even the most vague of timelines to pass along to users. As a customer I feel taken for granted and a little disrespected that upper brass won't deign to give us a tiny morsel of information. Not like we're asking for the world here. Just maybe something like "we're shooting for Q4 of 2023" or similar. But it's good to know I've been wasting my time coming to this thread to ask about it. Nice to know that as a customer your concerns are ultimately being passed up the chain where they land firmly on deaf ears.

  • janr83janr83 Posts: 6
    > @jmsteele313 said:
    > Yeah... I appreciate all that you do, and nobody wants to direct abuse in your direction. You're put in an awkward position. I would just say that as a customer, I do feel that the corporate leadership is showing me that I'm not a priority by their seeming disinterest in giving you even the most vague of timelines to pass along to users. As a customer I feel taken for granted and a little disrespected that upper brass won't deign to give us a tiny morsel of information. Not like we're asking for the world here. Just maybe something like "we're shooting for Q4 of 2023" or similar. But it's good to know I've been wasting my time coming to this thread to ask about it. Nice to know that as a customer your concerns are ultimately being passed up the chain where they land firmly on deaf ears.

    I feel the same way and I’m sure every one else does too!
  • ECHO!.. ECHo... ECho... echo... :P

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365
    edited September 2023

    Yeah compared to how other plugin software gets compatibility updates fairly quickly it is frustrating. Still I hate to be the bearer of bad news but we will not be seeing an update this year. Early next year is the projection I finally was able to get a timeline.

    This will include - all new versions of the plugs that addresses performance and stability fixes, M1/M2 native silicon compatibility, VST3 version and ability run the plugins without USB iLok Dongle.

    I will not be updating anyone else until there is updates and that includes if there is any public beta testing or versions for early release until I get that info.

    Not gonna act as the "complaint department" anymore either.

  • better late than never :)
  • > @HARMAN_EElde said:
    > Yeah compared to how other plugin software gets compatibility updates fairly quickly it is frustrating. Still I hate to be the bearer of bad news but we will not be seeing an update this year. Early next year is the projection I finally was able to get a timeline.
    >
    > This will include - all new versions of the plugs that addresses performance and stability fixes, M1/M2 native silicon compatibility, VST3 version and ability run the plugins without USB iLok Dongle.
    >
    > I will not be updating anyone else until there is updates and that includes if there is any public beta testing or versions for early release until I get that info.
    >
    > Not gonna act as the "complaint department" anymore either.

    Thanks for this update
  • @HARMAN_EElde said:
    Yeah compared to how other plugin software gets compatibility updates fairly quickly it is frustrating. Still I hate to be the bearer of bad news but we will not be seeing an update this year. Early next year is the projection I finally was able to get a timeline.

    This will include - all new versions of the plugs that addresses performance and stability fixes, M1/M2 native silicon compatibility, VST3 version and ability run the plugins without USB iLok Dongle.

    I will not be updating anyone else until there is updates and that includes if there is any public beta testing or versions for early release until I get that info.

    Not gonna act as the "complaint department" anymore either.

    Totally understand. And I do appreciate the update. Some sort of timeline was the request and certainly wouldn't be fair to give you a hard time when you can't do anything. Thanks for all you do and going to bat for the users. :)

  • a> @HARMAN_EElde said:

    Yeah compared to how other plugin software gets compatibility updates fairly quickly it is frustrating. Still I hate to be the bearer of bad news but we will not be seeing an update this year. Early next year is the projection I finally was able to get a timeline.

    This will include - all new versions of the plugs that addresses performance and stability fixes, M1/M2 native silicon compatibility, VST3 version and ability run the plugins without USB iLok Dongle.

    I will not be updating anyone else until there is updates and that includes if there is any public beta testing or versions for early release until I get that info.

    Not gonna act as the "complaint department" anymore either.

    Thank you for the update. I know this was a not-so-great position to be in. I'm grateful for your efforts to provide us information. "Early next year" will be here before we know it. In the meantime, we can use alternate methods to run Lexicon reverbs in Native projects as outlined earlier in this thread. I've been working via Metaplugin without issue.

  • @HARMAN_EElde said:
    As consumers I would recommend contacting our Corporate Offices to see if maybe someone in more senior management can help - I've made my concerns known up the chain. Feel free to do the same:

    HARMAN International
    400 Atlantic Street
    Stamford, CT 06901, USA

    Do you have an email for senior management? Just sending a snail mail to that address, I doubt it would even reach the right person. We understand you have done anything in your power so far to press for the updates and grateful for you doing that.

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365

    @strugglebrother said:

    @HARMAN_EElde said:
    As consumers I would recommend contacting our Corporate Offices to see if maybe someone in more senior management can help - I've made my concerns known up the chain. Feel free to do the same:

    HARMAN International
    400 Atlantic Street
    Stamford, CT 06901, USA

    Do you have an email for senior management? Just sending a snail mail to that address, I doubt it would even reach the right person. We understand you have done anything in your power so far to press for the updates and grateful for you doing that.

    Unfortunately, I cannot give out senior management direct email contacts no. You can also try reaching out via social media on Facebook and Twitter for Harman International if you do not wish to send a letter

    Keep in mind, all snail mail contact to corporate is forwarded to the best senior management contact, you can write attn: CEO Michael Mauser as well

  • Oh boy... only perhaps a couple months till the native versions... actually I guess "early next year" was the projection. I guess since the dividing line between early and late in a year would be the middle... like say June 15 for example... native versions could come anytime between January 1, 2024 and June 14, 2024. :lol:

    Not trying to be a pain... trying to inject a little levity into what is a bit of a discouraging situation for users. I come back to this topic every so often just to check as I am hopeful to one day have the Apple Silicon native version of these plugins. Looks like maybe even Audio Ease will get an AS-native version Altiverb 8 out the door before the PCM Native Bundle makes it.

    I have to speculate that it seems to me there's sort of a shift in Lexicon's focus. I gather Harman is a big company that has a lot of irons in the fire with car audio, technology licensing, embedded systems, etc, etc. that the pro audio software plug-in market must represent some tiny fraction of revenue... hence maintaining that software gets a proportionate amount of attention. Oh well... some day...

    And HAMRAN_EEide... I'm not sure of your actual first name so I'll call you that... I want to re-iterate that I recognize you're sort of in-between a rock and a hard place. You might pass up the chain of command to the people in charge of these things that the delay fuels a lot of rumor and speculation that Lexicon ever intends to update these plugs. I refer those people to this topic and your insistence that it is happening. I believe you implicitly, but of course there are plenty of folks in forums who are so cynical they don't believe it. That said, I too have become weary of defending Lexicon on forums and don't bother anymore. I think someone in a position of authority that has the ability to devote more resources to getting the Apple Silicon native plugs finished should be at least mildly concerned on the hit to Lexicon's image amongst this market segment that is happening. I know I'd gladly pay a reasonable upgrade fee, as it's a big effort and it wouldn't be realistic to expect a free upgrade... at least depending on how long ago the bundle or plugin was purchased.

    Thanks for listening/reading. As always, appreciate your efforts here. Every so often I just get antsy. :)

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365
    edited November 2023

    Latest updates, the Windows and Mac versions are being tested internally now, that's the only updates I have. If there is going to be a beta testing opportunity or a public beta of course I will announce it here.

    All I can say is there will be updates to the plugins with the fixes and features I have mentioned.

    It's not a secret that the timeline has not been and is not optimal, it absolutely has been told to the powers that be - but it is what it is there - and I'm not in any position other than the trenches to mitigate customer discontent best I can. I'm not expecting anyone to be happy with the situation either. It's gone beyond the limits of what customer patience and expectations should have to deal with I agree. I've personally moved onto using other plugins in my projects (UA, Valhalla, etc.) until a lot of the issues are resolved.

    I'm hoping some of the other developments at Harman will make them take these updates a little more seriously but I'm just as weary as any of you are at this point.

  • The update will absolutely be no cost to people who have a purchased license as well.

  • @HARMAN_EElde said:
    The update will absolutely be no cost to people who have a purchased license as well.

    That's extremely generous. Honestly, just speaking for myself, if there was a chance it would hasten the process I would happily pay an upgrade fee. And again... thanks for your updates on the situation. Hopefully early next year will mean "first quarter." Appreciate all you do!

  • Thanks for all this news, @HARMAN_EElde !

  • yazanyazan Posts: 6

    Little to go :wink:

  • ronneruronneru Posts: 1

    Hi friends! Any update?
    Sorry for bother you @HARMAN_EElde

  • Someone asked him about an update in another topic yesterday and here's what he said:

    I'll definitely let you guys know when we have an internal beta, that's what I check on every week!

  • ianhindianhind Posts: 1

    $1,300 plugin package that still doesn't have apple silicon is crazy!!! M1 came out over 3 years ago...

  • HARMAN_EEldeHARMAN_EElde Posts: 1,365
    edited February 1

    @ianhind said:

    $1,300 plugin package that still doesn't have apple silicon is crazy!!! M1 came out over 3 years ago...

    Not making excuses - but industry perspective, ProTools didn't have native silicon support beta until March of 2023. many other software/plugin companies did not have native silicon support until last year as well. Apple did not even release developer packs until the end of 2022.

    I am definitely checking in and sharing comments with our product dev and managers, but until we have any beta versions that materializes there isn't much I can do in the meantime.

  • RobertDornRobertDorn Posts: 2
    edited February 1

    @HARMAN_EElde said:
    @ianhind said:

    $1,300 plugin package that still doesn't have apple silicon is crazy!!! M1 came out over 3 years ago...

    Not making excuses - but industry perspective, ProTools didn't have native silicon support beta until March of 2023. many other software/plugin companies did not have native silicon support until last year as well. Apple did not even release developer packs until the end of 2022.

    I am definitely checking in and sharing comments with our product dev and managers, but until we have any beta versions that materializes there isn't much I can do in the meantime.

    this is insane. Meanwhile I haven't used my PCM bundle that long that I actually forgot how it sounds. At the same time, up until today it's still the most expensive software reverb I've ever bought. I don't now of any other premium brand not being compatible with silicon native by now. Let's not forget that also before the transition to apple silicon began, Lexicon was already among the slowest of the slowest when it was about compatibility updates or bug fixes. I actually can't wrap my head around how a company dares to sell such an expensive product while the development team behind it practically isn't able to deliver and kind of professionality.

  • @RobertDorn said:>
    this is insane. Meanwhile I haven't used my PCM bundle that long that I actually forgot how it sounds. At the same time, up until today it's still the most expensive software reverb I've ever bought. I don't now of any other premium brand not being compatible with silicon native by now. Let's not forget that also before the transition to apple silicon began, Lexicon was already among the slowest of the slowest when it was about compatibility updates or bug fixes. I actually can't wrap my head around how a company dares to sell such an expensive product while the development team behind it practically isn't able to deliver and kind of professionality.

    Just wondering what DAW you're using?

  • studiotonstudioton Posts: 13

    I'm starting to dream of an update :p

  • @jmsteele313 said:

    @RobertDorn said:>
    this is insane. Meanwhile I haven't used my PCM bundle that long that I actually forgot how it sounds. At the same time, up until today it's still the most expensive software reverb I've ever bought. I don't now of any other premium brand not being compatible with silicon native by now. Let's not forget that also before the transition to apple silicon began, Lexicon was already among the slowest of the slowest when it was about compatibility updates or bug fixes. I actually can't wrap my head around how a company dares to sell such an expensive product while the development team behind it practically isn't able to deliver and kind of professionality.

    Just wondering what DAW you're using?

    Pro Tools

  • @RobertDorn said:

    @jmsteele313 said:

    @RobertDorn said:>
    this is insane. Meanwhile I haven't used my PCM bundle that long that I actually forgot how it sounds. At the same time, up until today it's still the most expensive software reverb I've ever bought. I don't now of any other premium brand not being compatible with silicon native by now. Let's not forget that also before the transition to apple silicon began, Lexicon was already among the slowest of the slowest when it was about compatibility updates or bug fixes. I actually can't wrap my head around how a company dares to sell such an expensive product while the development team behind it practically isn't able to deliver and kind of professionality.

    Just wondering what DAW you're using?

    Pro Tools

    Holy crap! Apparently I edited my post offering a possible solution one too many times and it removed my reply and now needs to be "approved." ugh... great forum software.

    Okay... let me do this ALL OVER again as I didn't save the text of my reply. Time is of the essence and you might need this info prior to whenever the moderators can put my post back up.

    This is a less than ideal solution, granted, but you can use Blue Cat Audio's PatchWork plugin to use your PCM bundle right now with Pro Tools. I just tested this out on a project and I'm including a screen shot. This is with Pro Tools 2023.12.1 on M1 Max Mac Studio. Here's a link to PatchWork:

    https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_PatchWork/

    You can load an instance of PatchWork in Pro Tools, then load the AU version of your Lexicon reverb plugin inside that. It will act as a shell. I just tried it right now with Random Hall. Again see the screenshot below. It worked on a track insert. I can't see why it wouldn't work on an Aux. Again, less than perfect solution... it's a stop gap and a little bit of an expense, but it should allow you to use your PCM bundle in Pro Tools RIGHT NOW.

    NOW... if there are any typos in this post, I dare not correct them lest my post get pushed in the the "needs approval" queue like the last one! UGH!!!

  • yes, patchwork is known solution, but it cost 99$ . why would someone pay for a solution due to the irresponsibility and negligence of the company that sold the license. Currently lexicon is the only software company without an update solution. as far as I know there is no plugin without native silicon support. Lexicon is the only one :(

  • @studioton said:
    yes, patchwork is known solution, but it cost 99$ . why would someone pay for a solution due to the irresponsibility and negligence of the company that sold the license. Currently lexicon is the only software company without an update solution. as far as I know there is no plugin without native silicon support. Lexicon is the only one :(

    Okay... well here's the thing: In my case, I already owned this plugin so it wasn't a big deal. Maybe it goes on sale from time to time. Also, there are other plugins out there that probably do the same thing that may be less expensive? I don't know. You have a choice... you can either rail about what should be, or deal with what is right now in the present. If you refuse, on principle to spend the money, I get that. Fine. Then you can continue to complain and not use your reverbs.

    You might possibly find another use for PatchWork, as there's much more to it. Perhaps you could justify the expense that way and it looks like from your signature you could deduct the cost of the plugin as a legitimate business expense on your taxes. Anyway... suit yourself. Merely stating that there IS a solution out there for using the reverbs in Pro Tools.

  • easyridereasyrider Posts: 5
    edited February 15

    Audio Gridder is free https://audiogridder.com/download/

    Run the client and the server on your host machine…

    It’s useful for old VST2 not available in other formats that don’t play well in Patchwork…

    It’s also handy for plugins that destroy cpu..

    I use it in windows and Protools and Studio One. They have a Mac OS version.

    But back on the topics of updates….still no update for PCM native in 2024 is quite something…!

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