Have you met any wealthy residential integrators lately?
Yup.
I see TPC as two things. First, an opportunity to get clients even MORE excited about your services. And second, it's an added value to your services. I know that being in business, making money needs to be your top priority - if it wasn't, you'd still not be around. However, tied with that - or a very close second - to me is the customer service portion. And if you can "Wow" them with something like this - why not? How many "features" do you put in to your programs or projects and don't think about charging and make money on? Perhaps a weather module? A channel lineup module? To me, this is one of those features; sure - you charge for it, but you don't make your money on it.
I'm not sure what all the fuss about a product that cost us dealers only$750 to make use of quality Apple products that most of our clients already own. I just happen to have very tech savvy clients, all of which are early adopters of new technology. These same clients are also wealthy and remain wealthy because they understand technology and the fast pace as which it changes. Lets' face it, AMX touchpanels are as dated as beepers and bag phones. They are over priced, limited function proprietary devices that constantly break and have just not kept up with the times. We all made money selling these panels and I still firmly believe they need to be installed on every project but this TPControl opens a few more doors and helps fend off the thoughts from my clients that AMX is lagging behind on the technology side. I have dvr software, network monitoring software etc that costs nearly 10k running on Dell servers. $750 is nothing for a good app that a client sees and uses everyday. Everyone can sell boxes of junk that sits on a network and turns things in a house on and off. Apple makes excellent quality products and combined with excellent control processing from AMX and expert programming, it's a win win situation in my opinion. Adapt to our changing market or die like all the trunk slammers did last year...
Apple makes excellent quality products and combined with excellent control processing from AMX and expert programming, it's a win win situation in my opinion. Adapt to our changing market or die like all the trunk slammers did last year...
Completely agreed. However, as happy as I am that such a solution exists and is endorsed by amx, am a bit disappionted that such great effort has materialized in "translating" an outdated UI paradigm and replicating it on an iPhone, instead of rather changing the user interaction principles from scratch and taking advantage of a whole new way of interfacing with your controlled devices.
I want to believe that AMX's next step is developping a cross platform UI designer that gives the iPhone/iPad or other similar devices the development utencils to really making a difference. You know... scrollable lists, transition effects, multitouch, gesture, shake, zoom, open own sockets, etc...
Besides totally loving the TPDesigner (when comparing it with other UI development environments), I think I will speak for many of us saying that time has come for TP5 and for adopting the "today" user centric philosophy.
Whatever, when their competition (iridium) is priced at $160 and they come in at $500 that's sort of an insult. Not to mention their other competition, who also has a more reasonable price point.
It's kind of hard to justify that much of a delta in cost.
Whatever, when their competition (iridium) is priced at $160 and they come in at $500 that's sort of an insult. Not to mention their other competition, who also has a more reasonable price point.
It's kind of hard to justify that much of a delta in cost.
Is the price of a Mercedes insulting compared to a Chevy? Is the price of a Ferrari insulting compared to a Mercedes? We're comparing quite different apps. If the Chevy does what you need at the price you like, YOU WIN. If the Mercedes does what I want at a price I can pay, I WIN.
Etc.
There's more difference between Iridium and TPC than there is between a Chevy and a Mercedes. But what's wrong with having more options, especially at more price points? Choices are what makes our business special. I've never seen so much doom talk surrounding a brand new set of way-cost-reduced options - ever. You guys must be great fun at Christmas.
Besides totally loving the TPDesigner (when comparing it with other UI development environments), I think I will speak for many of us saying that time has come for TP5 and for adopting the "today" user centric philosophy.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, TP4 has served its purpose better than most other UI dev applications but it is def time for a new complete version with features present on far less sophisticated devices. The "wow" factor of multi stage buttons and dynamic images is long lost in my mind. The current platform is what over 5 years old? 6 months is an eternity nowadays in the tech world
Is the price of a Mercedes insulting compared to a Chevy? Is the price of a Ferrari insulting compared to a Mercedes? We're comparing quite different apps. If the Chevy does what you need at the price you like, YOU WIN. If the Mercedes does what I want at a price I can pay, I WIN.
Etc.
There's more difference between Iridium and TPC than there is between a Chevy and a Mercedes. But what's wrong with having more options, especially at more price points? Choices are what makes our business special. I've never seen so much doom talk surrounding a brand new set of way-cost-reduced options - ever. You guys must be great fun at Christmas.
Yea, the big difference I see is that iRidium gives you at least some ability to utilize some of the Apple products touch and graphical capabilities, whereas TPControl keeps you locked in the TPD4 sandbox of outdated graphics.
Yea, the big difference I see is that iRidium gives you at least some ability to utilize some of the Apple products touch and graphical capabilities, whereas TPControl keeps you locked in the TPD4 sandbox of outdated graphics.
Which one is the Mercedes again?
Sounds like you are totally satisfied with iRidium function and price. That's good, right? So TPC isn't a problem for you, just another choice that you don't need and aren't using. Choices that ultimately drive competition and differentiation. That's good, right?
Sounds like you are totally satisfied with iRidium function and price. That's good, right? So TPC isn't a problem for you, just another choice that you don't need and aren't using. Choices that ultimately drive competition and differentiation. That's good, right?
Your point is well made it is not the point I'm after however. The iRidium app is not the only point of comparison, a competitor who shall go unnamed also has an iPhone app. How does this help us compete against them?
Well, as you are all aware TPControl from Touch Panel Control is now available on the Apple AppStore and we are pleased to announce AMX have provided us access to our own area within AMX Forums.
We would like to invite everyone to come and join us at the new "Touch Panel Control: AMX Authorized Product Partner Forum", accessible from the main forum page, where we encourage discussion on all things TPControl and TPTransfer. It is our intention that these forums form part of our ongoing support offering for you the dealers, integrators, and programmers of custom AMX solutions.
Please be assured that during these early days we are listening to all of your comments and concerns and will be looking at how we can work together to help everyone take advantage of the opportunities that our product brings.
Further information, support and a ticketing system is available through the Touch Panel Control support site located at support.touchpanelcontrol.com
Thank you again to everyone who has played a role in Touch Panel Controls release of TPControl for AMX, especially those who assisted in the Pre-release Trials.
We look forward to working closely with the AMX integration community, and sharing our ideas and creations with you all.
I tried out TPC on the iPad today and this seems to be where it really shines, more so than the iPod. I scaled an 8400 panel file to a 1500 panel (1024 x 768) and it scaled perfectly and looks great on the iPad! The page transitions (fade, etc) seem to be smoother than the AMX touch panels, holds, slides etc work flawlessly and the only things I can't get to work yet are the IP cameras. I have to say, a very compelling product that is much better than the VNC apps that I have seen. If this doesn't add another arrow in the saleperson's quiver then I don't what what would. Looking at the main complaints that people have had that touch panels are too expensive and not functional enough, this seems to solve both those issues at once. AMX touch panels and R4s still have a place in a system as dedicated system panels but this will add some badly needed flexibilty and connectivity to an already great AMX system. Seems like a win-win-win to me! Thanks TPC and AMX!
Paul
Imagine an iPad on every night stand or coffee table, full resi control, books, magazines, email, morning news paper, surfing, etc. Needs a side kick bluetooth TV remote but it should be the ultimate user interface that truely allows a user to do everything that up to now they haven't been able to. So yes this will allow us to maintain a relevance in today's markets which is a good thing, no a great thing.
So who is TPC now? They have 3 spots on this forum, forum admin bleeps out prices for this "3rd" party partner? Why would they care if they are indeed 3rd party products, just protecting their new found friend/partner?. Other products with their own AMX forum spots are Edeleo, Autopatch & MAX which are subsidiaries or actually part of the main company. The iPad price $xxx.00 above the iPhone price is purely intended to benefit AMX not TPC so who is TPC now, really? We know who they used to be before they dissapearred for that short period and the legal folks from AMX did their thing but who are they now, a puppet company? Hmmm, obviously I have my speculations but does anyone get the straight dope or are we to be just played like kids at a puppet show? What's the real deal?
What is the relationship between AMX and Touch Panel Control Ltd?
Touch Panel Control Ltd is an independent company operating from the UK. We have developed TPControl and are an AMX Authorized Product Provider (APP). APP status has allow access to patented AMX technology, providing the only iPhone/iPod Touch & iPad application with a service level agreement, a guarantee of compatibility with future firmware revisions and the most complete panel feature set.
Touch Panel Control is the first company to become a member of the AMX Authorized Product Partner (AMX APP). This ensures that products developed by Touch Panel Control are engineered to meet rigorous quality standards.
I'm just curious why the detail of the AMX/TPC relationship is such a bee in some bonnets? It's like Obama's birth certificate I guess. A symbol of something sinister and hidden, proving they are all out to deceive us.
Would you be more or less willing to buy this product if it were AMX branded? I'd think MORE. So what possible reason would they have to try to hide it if it were not as they state and have from the start? It's reasonable to believe what they say. And it doesn't change anything material to me if it were different.
Why not paranoia regarding the AUTOPATCH deal? What's really the story behind MATRIX AUDIO? Idle programmers demand to know... don't let them flouridate your water!
Because fundamentally if we supply a system to a client, you need to have faith that in x years time the companies you're relying on are still in business, this is especially true of something like this were you will have interaction long after the point of purchase with updates and license moves etc...
TPC's business plan had them earning revenue from mid Jan - 6 months down the line and they are only just in a position to bring in the $$$. Then there is the issue of income in US$ for a business whose overheads are in Sterling. All of these things are none of our business, but you'd be foolish to not look at the risks of working with a system like this... what is the % of business start-up failures on your side of the pond??
It's like Obama's birth certificate I guess. A symbol of something sinister and hidden, proving they are all out to deceive us.
And they've been doing a very good job at that!
John Nagy wrote:
Idle programmers demand to know... don't let them flouridate your water!
Do you program or are you just an idle sales man with a need to inject your party line views into everyone else's posts?
To answer your question though I guess it comes down to a matter of trust and a lot of what's been done, posted, the pricing and a host of other things seem to contradict what's been said and what's being said. Now I don't recall demanding anything, I've simple posted my obvservations and posed questions related to my observation with what I believe to be the logical reasoning behind them.
IMHO if AMX wasn't the controlling factor in most of these decisions I would have expected a single flat price of $149.00 - $299.00 since TPC would only gain from these price points. However AMX would lose at this pricing level since they would be losing TP sales so if there interests were primary to the decision making process you would expect the prices published. Do I care, not really, do I believe there are relevant omissions in their stated relationship, sure I do. Who owns the controlling interest of TPC now? With the amount of money at stake and the furture of AMX's resi market share deeply intertwined with TPC pricing and success I would be shocked to think AMX wasn't pulling the strings. Have I complained about the cost, no, to the contrary I've helped justify them but that doesn't mean if I smell something fishy I'm not going to hold my nose and ask someone to open a window.
The real question is why do you care so much about what others think or say? Are you an under cover spy sent in by AMX to find out who's loyal to the party and who's not? If I admit to being a cultural conservative and republican does that mean my opinions and vote doesn't count here just like in Washington?
Do you program or are you just an idle sales man with a need to inject your party line views into everyone else's posts?
While I have not nearly as much time for this as you, I have as my main interest the success of AMX integrators, because I sell a product that only they can buy. The more attractive and profitable AMX integration is, the better my company will do. If you notice, I take every effort to inject ideas and ways to win, not to monger suspicion or insist that the end is here and AMX is managed by Freddy Krueger who wants to kill us while we dream.
It's also interesting that while you seem to worry and suspect it's "fishy" that AMX might be more involved than they let on, Jim seems to be more worried that AMX isn't invested enough to make TPC stable enough to survive. I guess it's bad either way? No way to win? Don't fall asleep...
IMHO if AMX wasn't the controlling factor in most of these decisions I would have expected a single flat price of $149.00 - $299.00 since TPC would only gain from these price points.
We disagree. My experience in manufacture of commercial software for niche markets shows far less elasticity than you presume. Cutting the price in half does not result in triple sales, which is what you need to make the SAME money (due to support, marketing, distribution, and saturation). This has been an expensive project and it's far from over.
The real question is why do you care so much about what others think or say? Are you an under cover spy sent in by AMX to find out who's loyal to the party and who's not? If I admit to being a cultural conservative and republican does that mean my opinions and vote doesn't count here just like in Washington?
Ah, at last you found me out. I'm a Spy for the Illuminati. And to be sure, that is the "real question" on the minds of over 13,000 people have read this topic so far.
Clearly you feel that your opinion should be injected wherever you like - you've posted an average of nearly two a day for the last 4 years, well over 2,000 posts. But you object to my nearly 100 in the last year. You object to me finding a bright side or way to make the most of the way things are, or at the very least to try to understand reasons for things we may wish were different.
So is it actually YOU who are the spy? Here from the C company or some other competitor, bent on spreading discontent and fomenting the worst scenarios in order to demoralize AMX dealers as much as possible?
And to be sure, that is the "real question" on the minds of over 13,000 people have read this topic so far.
We interrupt this mudslinging to bring you the following public announcement:
Views != people. There are only 7000 members registered and only members can view. The bash count may be over 13,000 but it?s definitely not the number of viewers. I imagine it?s not even remotely close.
OK. Stop it. This is getting stupid. Demand drives price. It doesn't matter. If it's too expensive, people won't buy it and TPC will lower their price. It's a moot point. I do think that John may be a bit biased as he has been working with TPC before a lot of us heard of them, and also provides a software package of his own for sale. So what though. Nothing wrong with that. I would like to make a similar claim though that doubling price does not double profit. I think a company needs to be aware of this as well.
Case and point...
I am very much hoping that AMX drops their "charged tech support" policy for smaller dealers. I realize that they are bringing in a bunch of money this way. However, I feel they will lose business over this. My company currently does enough business with AMX that it doesn't matter for us. However, it still seems like bad business to me and most of the people here (and I'm sure a lot of people at AMX).
It's a fine line between profitability and competitiveness. I hope this APP finds a good place in between.
I am very much hoping that AMX drops their "charged tech support" policy for smaller dealers. I realize that they are bringing in a bunch of money this way.
I share your hope, I think there are better ways to see to it that support is used responsibly and not as a substitute for a programmer. I think this was a mistake from the start.
However, to think that AMX is bringing in a "bunch of money this way" is not to do the math. Of maybe 1000 dealers worldwide, there are by my guesstimate only a couple hundred Bronze dealers, probably fewer. They are the only ones paying this support fee, by definition these are the dealers selling only a couple systems a year. And the charge is optional if you want to forgo support, an option at least some of the dealers here mention they are using. So all of their charges taken together don't pay for more than a few full time support staff. Not what I'd call a bunch of money. (Note that costs of employees are about 1.33 to 1.5 times their salary after overhead and benefits.)
I could be way off on the number of Bronze dealers. I don't expect that I am. I am willing to be wrong. Anyone have actual numbers?
Jim seems to be more worried that AMX isn't invested enough to make TPC stable enough to survive.
Did I say that?? No. Please don't put words into my mouth. I talked about risk analysis - the same process a dealer needs to consider before opting to put say CineTouch or any other element that they have no control over into a system. If one switcher doesn't work right I can swap it out for an alternative, I might have to take a small hit, but if all the programming or interfaces dont work right, that is a massive lump of most jobs, large or small, and not something you can just swap to fix.
There are a ton of installations out there fitted with the latest, greatest control solution only for the manufacturer or supplier to drop it / disappear leaving the end user with a dud. I guarantee you that every dealer here has taken over at least one of these installs in their time and had to break the bad news to their new client that the only option is to rip it out and start afresh.
Now AMX has been around a long long time, so you can be reasonably safe that your ok. I don't know about your business John, and I'm sure you've been around long enough but before I signed up to such a thing, I would be looking at it without any rose-tinted glasses. It's not criticism its sensible business practice.
While I have not nearly as much time for this as you,
Most of us who contribute here on the forum do so in the idle time between files transfers while waiting for the sytem to come back online so were working while participating. I guess you are too, trying to promote your companies interests. My particpation is intended to educate myself and aid others in learning for the greater good of AMX while your self serving, self promotion of CT speaks for itself.
John Nagy wrote:
Clearly you feel that your opinion should be injected wherever you like - you've posted an average of nearly two a day for the last 4 years, well over 2,000 posts. But you object to my nearly 100 in the last year. You object to me finding a bright side or way to make the most of the way things are, or at the very least to try to understand reasons for things we may wish were different.
That only means I've been programming an awful lot in the last 4-5 years so it's not like I just sit up here in cyber space with nothing better to do. Believe me working 12-18 hours a day x 7 I need a break every once and a while to clear the brain and the forum helps. What's your reasoning for being here? What program are you currently in the middle of?
You can post all you like and some of your post have actually been useful but you tend to speak down to members of this forum from your high perch rubbing elbows with the other gods. Your sole pupose here is to constantly put out the CT logo ino order to drum up more business and that's not what this forum is about. You're not a programmer or dealer but a software vender injecting your views on folks who work longs hours trying to make a living selling AMX products and have a direct financial interest in the direction AMX is taking. How much have personally invested learning and selling AMX gear? I would suspect nothing while most here on the forum have invested 10's of thousands on equipment and 100's of thousand in man hours trying to excell in their programming abilities. So when a vender comes in preaching the gospel according to CT we (I) get a bit testy.
Joe Hebert wrote:
We interrupt this mudslinging to bring you the following public announcement:
I apologize and I'll refrain from further posts in response JN on this thread. No doubt they'll be others though.
Did I say that?? No. Please don't put words into my mouth.
Jim, I'm not intending to. I asked why it matters what exactly the ownership relationship is, and you replied directly with a discussion about risk with a new player, which you repeat here. So did I mistakenly conclude that your point is that TPC is risky, and/or would be less so if in fact AMX were more invested?
This is beyond just ridiculous and childish but disruptive to the professionalism of this board.
I finally found the ignore buttons and find it shameful that I've finally had to add someone:
Click on User CP->Edit Ignore List->Add a Member to your list.
Type in the name of the user you wish to ignore and it will hide all of their posts.
My problem is now solved and I can view this board in relative peace except when someone chooses to quote the offendor. I suggest we all do the same so we can get back to the real issues we've been dealing with which is helping eachother out and improving our own skills.
This is beyond just ridiculous and childish but disruptive to the professionalism of this board.
I finally found the ignore buttons and find it shameful that I've finally had to add someone:
Click on User CP->Edit Ignore List->Add a Member to your list.
Type in the name of the user you wish to ignore and it will hide all of their posts.
My problem is now solved and I can view this board in relative peace except when someone chooses to quote the offendor. I suggest we all do the same so we can get back to the real issues we've been dealing with which is helping eachother out and improving our own skills.
--John
I didn't realize that feature was available. Thx.
Paul
Comments
I see TPC as two things. First, an opportunity to get clients even MORE excited about your services. And second, it's an added value to your services. I know that being in business, making money needs to be your top priority - if it wasn't, you'd still not be around. However, tied with that - or a very close second - to me is the customer service portion. And if you can "Wow" them with something like this - why not? How many "features" do you put in to your programs or projects and don't think about charging and make money on? Perhaps a weather module? A channel lineup module? To me, this is one of those features; sure - you charge for it, but you don't make your money on it.
Times have changed.
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.
I'd rather be a hobo.
I'm not sure what all the fuss about a product that cost us dealers only$750 to make use of quality Apple products that most of our clients already own. I just happen to have very tech savvy clients, all of which are early adopters of new technology. These same clients are also wealthy and remain wealthy because they understand technology and the fast pace as which it changes. Lets' face it, AMX touchpanels are as dated as beepers and bag phones. They are over priced, limited function proprietary devices that constantly break and have just not kept up with the times. We all made money selling these panels and I still firmly believe they need to be installed on every project but this TPControl opens a few more doors and helps fend off the thoughts from my clients that AMX is lagging behind on the technology side. I have dvr software, network monitoring software etc that costs nearly 10k running on Dell servers. $750 is nothing for a good app that a client sees and uses everyday. Everyone can sell boxes of junk that sits on a network and turns things in a house on and off. Apple makes excellent quality products and combined with excellent control processing from AMX and expert programming, it's a win win situation in my opinion. Adapt to our changing market or die like all the trunk slammers did last year...
Completely agreed. However, as happy as I am that such a solution exists and is endorsed by amx, am a bit disappionted that such great effort has materialized in "translating" an outdated UI paradigm and replicating it on an iPhone, instead of rather changing the user interaction principles from scratch and taking advantage of a whole new way of interfacing with your controlled devices.
I want to believe that AMX's next step is developping a cross platform UI designer that gives the iPhone/iPad or other similar devices the development utencils to really making a difference. You know... scrollable lists, transition effects, multitouch, gesture, shake, zoom, open own sockets, etc...
Besides totally loving the TPDesigner (when comparing it with other UI development environments), I think I will speak for many of us saying that time has come for TP5 and for adopting the "today" user centric philosophy.
It's kind of hard to justify that much of a delta in cost.
Is the price of a Mercedes insulting compared to a Chevy? Is the price of a Ferrari insulting compared to a Mercedes? We're comparing quite different apps. If the Chevy does what you need at the price you like, YOU WIN. If the Mercedes does what I want at a price I can pay, I WIN.
Etc.
There's more difference between Iridium and TPC than there is between a Chevy and a Mercedes. But what's wrong with having more options, especially at more price points? Choices are what makes our business special. I've never seen so much doom talk surrounding a brand new set of way-cost-reduced options - ever. You guys must be great fun at Christmas.
Agreed, TP4 has served its purpose better than most other UI dev applications but it is def time for a new complete version with features present on far less sophisticated devices. The "wow" factor of multi stage buttons and dynamic images is long lost in my mind. The current platform is what over 5 years old? 6 months is an eternity nowadays in the tech world
Yea, the big difference I see is that iRidium gives you at least some ability to utilize some of the Apple products touch and graphical capabilities, whereas TPControl keeps you locked in the TPD4 sandbox of outdated graphics.
Which one is the Mercedes again?
Your point is well made it is not the point I'm after however. The iRidium app is not the only point of comparison, a competitor who shall go unnamed also has an iPhone app. How does this help us compete against them?
Well, as you are all aware TPControl from Touch Panel Control is now available on the Apple AppStore and we are pleased to announce AMX have provided us access to our own area within AMX Forums.
We would like to invite everyone to come and join us at the new "Touch Panel Control: AMX Authorized Product Partner Forum", accessible from the main forum page, where we encourage discussion on all things TPControl and TPTransfer. It is our intention that these forums form part of our ongoing support offering for you the dealers, integrators, and programmers of custom AMX solutions.
Please be assured that during these early days we are listening to all of your comments and concerns and will be looking at how we can work together to help everyone take advantage of the opportunities that our product brings.
Further information, support and a ticketing system is available through the Touch Panel Control support site located at support.touchpanelcontrol.com
Thank you again to everyone who has played a role in Touch Panel Controls release of TPControl for AMX, especially those who assisted in the Pre-release Trials.
We look forward to working closely with the AMX integration community, and sharing our ideas and creations with you all.
The Touch Panel Control Team
Paul
So who is TPC now? They have 3 spots on this forum, forum admin bleeps out prices for this "3rd" party partner? Why would they care if they are indeed 3rd party products, just protecting their new found friend/partner?. Other products with their own AMX forum spots are Edeleo, Autopatch & MAX which are subsidiaries or actually part of the main company. The iPad price $xxx.00 above the iPhone price is purely intended to benefit AMX not TPC so who is TPC now, really? We know who they used to be before they dissapearred for that short period and the legal folks from AMX did their thing but who are they now, a puppet company? Hmmm, obviously I have my speculations but does anyone get the straight dope or are we to be just played like kids at a puppet show? What's the real deal?
Please find a sticky for our FAQs over in the Touch Panel Control forum:
http://www.amxforums.com/showthread.php?p=48085#post48085
Touch Panel Control Team
I'm just curious why the detail of the AMX/TPC relationship is such a bee in some bonnets? It's like Obama's birth certificate I guess. A symbol of something sinister and hidden, proving they are all out to deceive us.
Would you be more or less willing to buy this product if it were AMX branded? I'd think MORE. So what possible reason would they have to try to hide it if it were not as they state and have from the start? It's reasonable to believe what they say. And it doesn't change anything material to me if it were different.
Why not paranoia regarding the AUTOPATCH deal? What's really the story behind MATRIX AUDIO? Idle programmers demand to know... don't let them flouridate your water!
TPC's business plan had them earning revenue from mid Jan - 6 months down the line and they are only just in a position to bring in the $$$. Then there is the issue of income in US$ for a business whose overheads are in Sterling. All of these things are none of our business, but you'd be foolish to not look at the risks of working with a system like this... what is the % of business start-up failures on your side of the pond??
John Nagy wrote: Do you program or are you just an idle sales man with a need to inject your party line views into everyone else's posts?
To answer your question though I guess it comes down to a matter of trust and a lot of what's been done, posted, the pricing and a host of other things seem to contradict what's been said and what's being said. Now I don't recall demanding anything, I've simple posted my obvservations and posed questions related to my observation with what I believe to be the logical reasoning behind them.
IMHO if AMX wasn't the controlling factor in most of these decisions I would have expected a single flat price of $149.00 - $299.00 since TPC would only gain from these price points. However AMX would lose at this pricing level since they would be losing TP sales so if there interests were primary to the decision making process you would expect the prices published. Do I care, not really, do I believe there are relevant omissions in their stated relationship, sure I do. Who owns the controlling interest of TPC now? With the amount of money at stake and the furture of AMX's resi market share deeply intertwined with TPC pricing and success I would be shocked to think AMX wasn't pulling the strings. Have I complained about the cost, no, to the contrary I've helped justify them but that doesn't mean if I smell something fishy I'm not going to hold my nose and ask someone to open a window.
The real question is why do you care so much about what others think or say? Are you an under cover spy sent in by AMX to find out who's loyal to the party and who's not? If I admit to being a cultural conservative and republican does that mean my opinions and vote doesn't count here just like in Washington?
While I have not nearly as much time for this as you, I have as my main interest the success of AMX integrators, because I sell a product that only they can buy. The more attractive and profitable AMX integration is, the better my company will do. If you notice, I take every effort to inject ideas and ways to win, not to monger suspicion or insist that the end is here and AMX is managed by Freddy Krueger who wants to kill us while we dream.
It's also interesting that while you seem to worry and suspect it's "fishy" that AMX might be more involved than they let on, Jim seems to be more worried that AMX isn't invested enough to make TPC stable enough to survive. I guess it's bad either way? No way to win? Don't fall asleep...
We disagree. My experience in manufacture of commercial software for niche markets shows far less elasticity than you presume. Cutting the price in half does not result in triple sales, which is what you need to make the SAME money (due to support, marketing, distribution, and saturation). This has been an expensive project and it's far from over.
Ah, at last you found me out. I'm a Spy for the Illuminati. And to be sure, that is the "real question" on the minds of over 13,000 people have read this topic so far.
Clearly you feel that your opinion should be injected wherever you like - you've posted an average of nearly two a day for the last 4 years, well over 2,000 posts. But you object to my nearly 100 in the last year. You object to me finding a bright side or way to make the most of the way things are, or at the very least to try to understand reasons for things we may wish were different.
So is it actually YOU who are the spy? Here from the C company or some other competitor, bent on spreading discontent and fomenting the worst scenarios in order to demoralize AMX dealers as much as possible?
No, probably not.
Views != people. There are only 7000 members registered and only members can view. The bash count may be over 13,000 but it?s definitely not the number of viewers. I imagine it?s not even remotely close.
<-- ducking while exiting stage left.
Case and point...
I am very much hoping that AMX drops their "charged tech support" policy for smaller dealers. I realize that they are bringing in a bunch of money this way. However, I feel they will lose business over this. My company currently does enough business with AMX that it doesn't matter for us. However, it still seems like bad business to me and most of the people here (and I'm sure a lot of people at AMX).
It's a fine line between profitability and competitiveness. I hope this APP finds a good place in between.
I share your hope, I think there are better ways to see to it that support is used responsibly and not as a substitute for a programmer. I think this was a mistake from the start.
However, to think that AMX is bringing in a "bunch of money this way" is not to do the math. Of maybe 1000 dealers worldwide, there are by my guesstimate only a couple hundred Bronze dealers, probably fewer. They are the only ones paying this support fee, by definition these are the dealers selling only a couple systems a year. And the charge is optional if you want to forgo support, an option at least some of the dealers here mention they are using. So all of their charges taken together don't pay for more than a few full time support staff. Not what I'd call a bunch of money. (Note that costs of employees are about 1.33 to 1.5 times their salary after overhead and benefits.)
I could be way off on the number of Bronze dealers. I don't expect that I am. I am willing to be wrong. Anyone have actual numbers?
Did I say that?? No. Please don't put words into my mouth. I talked about risk analysis - the same process a dealer needs to consider before opting to put say CineTouch or any other element that they have no control over into a system. If one switcher doesn't work right I can swap it out for an alternative, I might have to take a small hit, but if all the programming or interfaces dont work right, that is a massive lump of most jobs, large or small, and not something you can just swap to fix.
There are a ton of installations out there fitted with the latest, greatest control solution only for the manufacturer or supplier to drop it / disappear leaving the end user with a dud. I guarantee you that every dealer here has taken over at least one of these installs in their time and had to break the bad news to their new client that the only option is to rip it out and start afresh.
Now AMX has been around a long long time, so you can be reasonably safe that your ok. I don't know about your business John, and I'm sure you've been around long enough but before I signed up to such a thing, I would be looking at it without any rose-tinted glasses. It's not criticism its sensible business practice.
John Nagy wrote: That only means I've been programming an awful lot in the last 4-5 years so it's not like I just sit up here in cyber space with nothing better to do. Believe me working 12-18 hours a day x 7 I need a break every once and a while to clear the brain and the forum helps. What's your reasoning for being here? What program are you currently in the middle of?
You can post all you like and some of your post have actually been useful but you tend to speak down to members of this forum from your high perch rubbing elbows with the other gods. Your sole pupose here is to constantly put out the CT logo ino order to drum up more business and that's not what this forum is about. You're not a programmer or dealer but a software vender injecting your views on folks who work longs hours trying to make a living selling AMX products and have a direct financial interest in the direction AMX is taking. How much have personally invested learning and selling AMX gear? I would suspect nothing while most here on the forum have invested 10's of thousands on equipment and 100's of thousand in man hours trying to excell in their programming abilities. So when a vender comes in preaching the gospel according to CT we (I) get a bit testy.
Joe Hebert wrote: I apologize and I'll refrain from further posts in response JN on this thread. No doubt they'll be others though.
I finally found the ignore buttons and find it shameful that I've finally had to add someone:
Click on User CP->Edit Ignore List->Add a Member to your list.
Type in the name of the user you wish to ignore and it will hide all of their posts.
My problem is now solved and I can view this board in relative peace except when someone chooses to quote the offendor. I suggest we all do the same so we can get back to the real issues we've been dealing with which is helping eachother out and improving our own skills.
--John
I didn't realize that feature was available. Thx.
Paul